Suggestion that delivery companies should check their riders bikes are legal !!!!!!

Bonzo Banana

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2019
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What ever next .........................
In that article the victim has stated the ebike was travelling at 15mph going up the wrong way. I've read these ebike forum threads a lot and not once have I read that illegal ebikes actually go in the wrong direction on cycle paths where as legal ones do not. This is new information I didn't know before.

I was almost hit by an ebike going 30mph down a hill with the motor off on a shared path. I could hear nothing at all from it which was part of the problem. I'm sure it was unpowered.

Neither of these situations are related to legal or non legal ebikes they are related to stupid and unsafe riders.
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
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Neither of these situations are related to legal or non legal ebikes they are related to stupid and unsafe riders.
Neither situation is directly related. However stupid and unsafe riders are much more likely than 'normal' riders to choose illegal e-bikes, so there is a strong correlation.
 

Az.

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 27, 2022
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Personally I think this appeal does make sense. Companies should be accountable for what their employees do and what equipment they use. They also should provide proper training.
 

Saracen

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Aug 24, 2023
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Personally I think this appeal does make sense. Companies should be accountable for what their employees do and what equipment they use. They also should provide proper training.

Sorry, ALL 100% of drivers of commercial vehicles from Amazon to your local baker are responsible for their vesicles road worthiness, to a large extent, they have to by law check their vehicles before taking them out (I had to as a driver) lights, tyres, horn, no protruding unsafe to pedestrian metal parts, and so on


You can not place 100% of the burden on the shop, BUT they should be as accountable
 

StuartsProjects

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 9, 2021
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Personally I think this appeal does make sense. Companies should be accountable for what their employees do and what equipment they use. They also should provide proper training.
Exactly, that why I posted it, nowt really to do with an accident involving an eBike apparently at legal speed.

Certainly by me, most all of the Delivery guys using eBikes appear to be clearly using illegal ebikes.

However I suspect that the delivery riders might technically be 'self employed', a standard avoiding tax (and insurance claims) regime.
 

Bonzo Banana

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2019
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Neither situation is directly related. However stupid and unsafe riders are much more likely than 'normal' riders to choose illegal e-bikes, so there is a strong correlation.
Ebikes are still only a minority of bicycles on the road, the vast majority are standard bicycles and those cyclists acting irresponsibly are much more likely to be on a standard bicycle. Only yesterday I spotted a cyclist without lights riding on the pavement and another ignoring traffic lights as the pedestrian was on the opposite side of the road and hadn't started crossing in both instances normal bicycles.

I don't accept that what many people perceive to be actually illegal ebikes are illegal and many so called legal ebikes are actually well outside the legal definition. There are lots of legal ways to have a throttle on a ebike which many seem to view as a illegal power control method. There are 4 legal ways to have a throttle on an ebike;

1) It was sold before 2016
2) It has been individually tested like some Wisper bikes.
3) It is ebike conversion.


4) The throttle only operates when the cycle is being pedalled i.e. linked to the cadence sensor.

Yet many people keep persisting with their throttle equals always illegal viewpoint. A throttle still remains the most common power control method around the world for ebikes and in my opinion the safest and most desirable option because it gives the fullest power control to the rider. It is also often the only option for getting weaker or disabled riders onto ebikes and dealing with start/stop urban traffic effectively.
 
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matthewslack

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Nov 26, 2021
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Personally I think this appeal does make sense. Companies should be accountable for what their employees do and what equipment they use. They also should provide proper training.
I'm sure we will hear plenty of debate over whether delivery riders (are / are not / should be regarded as) employees.

A legal loophole being stretched to breaking point whilst riders earn peanuts and companies blissfully syphon off millions.
 

Saracen

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 24, 2023
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Ebikes are still only a minority of bicycles on the road, the vast majority are standard bicycles and those cyclists acting irresponsibly are much more likely to be on a standard bicycle. Only yesterday I spotted a cyclist without lights riding on the pavement and another ignoring traffic lights as the pedestrian was on the opposite side of the road and hadn't started crossing in both instances normal bicycles.

I don't accept that what many people perceive to be actually illegal ebikes are illegal and many so called legal ebikes are actually well outside the legal definition. There are lots of legal ways to have a throttle on a ebike which many seem to view as a illegal power control method. There are 4 legal ways to have a throttle on an ebike;

1) It was sold before 2016
2) It has been individually tested like some Wisper bikes.
3) It is ebike conversion.


4) The throttle only operates when the cycle is being pedalled i.e. linked to the cadence sensor.

Yet many people keep persisting with their throttle equals always illegal viewpoint. A throttle still remains the most common power control method around the world for ebikes and in my opinion the safest and most desirable option because it gives the fullest power control to the rider. It is also often the only option for getting weaker or disabled riders onto ebikes and dealing with start/stop urban traffic effectively.
If I fitted the throttle that came with my Bafang conversion it would operate alone no pedalling, illegal
 

Saracen

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 24, 2023
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I'm sure we will hear plenty of debate over whether delivery riders (are / are not / should be regarded as) employees.

A legal loophole being stretched to breaking point whilst riders earn peanuts and companies blissfully syphon off millions.

I don't disagree I just think it is 100% not enforceable until there is an investigate able accident or death
 

thelarkbox

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 23, 2023
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any costs from legislation or regulation will come from the pockets of those paying for delivery and those doing the delivery, with the knock on effect of folk demanding a better quicker service in line with the extra cost and deliverers racing faster to make less money. And who benefits?
 

matthewslack

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2021
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I don't disagree I just think it is 100% not enforceable until there is an investigate able accident or death
In a rather crude way enforcement is easy. Just visit every fast food outlet in every major town / city and inspect every bike.

But that needs to be balanced against the public interest benefit of the service the riders provide and their need to earn a living.

But I agree with your point that nothing gets done until an accident. Resource constraints are the main issue there: the admin overhead of accounting for every action and having 'measurable results'. Convictions and accidents are easier to justify / fund than warnings, advice and other forms of prevention.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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These fast food delievry's are only here because people are too lazy to cook or to go out and get their own food, I have never used one and wouldn't do so .
 

portals

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 15, 2022
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I imagine that there are many more pedestrians knocked down every day by diks in Lycra on road bikes frequently going way faster than 15mph. Was in Holburn recently and almost got creamed twice in 5mins, the speed cyclists zoom through the lights are unbelievable...
 
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soundwave

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May 23, 2015
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I imagine that there are many more pedestrians knocked down every day by diks in Lycra on road bikes frequently going way faster than 15mph. Was in Holburn recently and almost got creamed twice in 5mins, the speed cyclists zoom through the lights are unbelievable...
not 1 has made it past me in ten years never gets old passing them going 35mph on the pavement :p

they tried to swarm me once round the country lanes not a good idea as twig vs 24kg bike with me on it not a good idea cos ill just smash them out of my way :D
 

StuartsProjects

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 9, 2021
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In a rather crude way enforcement is easy. Just visit every fast food outlet in every major town / city and inspect every bike.
Indeed, easy peasy.

But that needs to be balanced against the public interest benefit of the service the riders provide and their need to earn a living.
So if the person delivering a piza is using an illegal eBike, to get it to you a few minutes quicker, what should be done ?
 

matthewslack

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2021
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Indeed, easy peasy.



So if the person delivering a piza is using an illegal eBike, to get it to you a few minutes quicker, what should be done ?
The full answer is to fix the system and our society, rather than target an individual 'doing what everyone else is doing'.

The immediate answer should be the same as for any other road traffic offence, which starts with 'advice' on what they are doing wrong, through 'strong advice' to prosecution and confiscation.

If the illegal ebike was properly operated as a moped, and properly ridden on the road, the same journey saving the same few minutes is perfectly OK.

Making it harder to buy 'illegal on the road' ebikes, information campaigns as well as confiscation days by the police, more pressure on the delivery companies, perhaps given the scale of the problem require the companies to provide the bikes.

Probably plenty more too.
 
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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The rider's app transmits GPS co-ordinates, it'd be easy to identify dangerous illegal ebike use; illegal speeds on level roads etc. The government could obtain that data and determine far more.
 

Bonzo Banana

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2019
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If I fitted the throttle that came with my Bafang conversion it would operate alone no pedalling, illegal
It's probably illegal anyway if its a high power mid-drive motor well above 250W and delivering perhaps 15A or more of power when climbing hills however again the Department for Transport have stated that if a ebike kit meets the correct spec it doesn't have to go through the type approval process. However most mid-drive kit ebikes would be well above the 250W rating. So the ebike may already be illegal but fitting a throttle too it makes no difference to its illegal status. However if you had a legal ebike kit that adheres to the 250W rating then fitting a twist and go throttle would not be illegal. As far as I know all the Wisper legal twist and go ebikes are lower power hub motor based ebikes and for a ebike kit to be legal with a throttle it has to be a 250W rated motor even if a kit. So you couldn't add a throttle to a mid-drive motor ebike kit as it would still be outside the 250W rating. The type approval exemption still means the converted ebike must meet the correct standards.


 
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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It's probably illegal anyway if its a high power mid-drive motor well above 250W and delivering perhaps 15A or more of power when climbing hills however again the Department for Transport have stated that if a ebike kit meets the correct spec it doesn't have to go through the type approval process. However most mid-drive kit ebikes would be well above the 250W rating. So the ebike may already be illegal but fitting a throttle too it makes no difference to its illegal status. However if you had a legal ebike kit that adheres to the 250W rating then fitting a twist and go throttle would not be illegal. As far as I know all the Wisper legal twist and go ebikes are lower power hub motor based ebikes and for a ebike kit to be legal with a throttle it has to be a 250W rated motor even if a kit. So you couldn't add a throttle to a mid-drive motor ebike kit as it would still be outside the 250W rating. The type approval exemption still means the converted ebike must meet the correct standards.


Mid or hub, to be legal the motor must be rated and marked 250W by the manufacturer. Your own hub motor is rated and marked 500W - @Saracen's motor is more legal than yours.



https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/bought-a-cheap-ebike-kit-from-amazon-warehouse.42958/
 
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