Two new batteries, now both dead :(

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
911
185
73
It's still dead after 7 hours :(

So with all the great advice and me eventually putting a new PP3 in the meter it looks like I've been sold two faulty batteries.
Like I said the 1st battery was packed weird and had scratches all over it and the 2nd battery was packed the same in a rack battery box.
I think they are returns that they tried for a couple of minutes and sent them back out.

Thanks
If you truly believe that, and I certainly believe you 100%, you should mention the name of the responsible company here on Pedelec, to warn any possible future buyers, assuming that the company refuses to assist you in fixing both problems of course!
The fact is that the truth can hurt!
regards
Andy
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
9,262
3,545
56
West Sx RH
Please bare with me, I'm 62 and recently had a stroke so sometimes I panic so sorry for my former readings.

I've put a new PP3 battery in and the battery is reading 41.8v and the charger is reading 41.9v

The dead battery is still 4.5v.
I'm going to leave this on charge to see if anything happens.

So I'm back to square one:
1st battery is at a nice 41.8v but turns off immediately when I put it on either bike.
2nd battery is dead.

Bed time now so thanks everybody and sorry for the wrong readings.
Though one is reading a correct balanced voltage, obviously there is a fault stopping it working. The fault could be anything from a switch fault, BMS, wiring, bad cell interconnection or even bad cells in a P group. The discharge fuse is intact as a good reading is had.

The other battery could simply be a dead discharge fuse, unfortunately the fuse is in side the case as I have an exact same cased PF cell model.
 

aardvark5

Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
212
73
61
ST3 Blurton
Earlier up the thread ebiker99 asked about your older batteries and whether you have tried them to see that they still work, have you done so ?
The older batteries are the reason why I bought these two.
One of them is acting stupid, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes I can turn it off and sometimes I can't.
The other battery which I've been to work on today gives me around 5 miles on full pedal assist and my commute is 9 miles total. I'd gone about 0.5 mile from work when that turned off :)
Anyway I put it on pedal assist 1 and it got me home so I've got to endure with this until I'm sorted.
The unreliable battery is on the bike now so I'm going to see if it gets me to work and back but if it doesn't I'll be carrying the 5 mile battery with me also.
 

aardvark5

Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
212
73
61
ST3 Blurton
So good news, I think she looked at the photo's I took of the battery labels and realised they were perhaps returns -

Hello
Thank you for your message as well as for the pictures attached. I am very sorry you have experienced such issues.
What I can offer you is a return label for both of the items and postage of replacements or a return label and a refund.
Please let me know which you prefer.
Kind regards
AP


Hi

I would like two batteries that work please

Dave



Hello
Thank you for your message. I can generate a return label for you. Once I generate one it will be valid only for 24 hours. Please let me know when you will be able to post these batteries and I will send you a return label for then.
Kind regards
AP



So when I get the 'new' batteries I will first test the voltage output of the chargers.
I'll charge to the green LED
I'll then test the voltage of the batteries.

Thanks everybody.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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56
West Sx RH
Looks like it might have been an honest mistake which is being dealt with so on that side the CS is working. The fact you managed to get to work on an old battery in PAS1 shows that the new batteries are faulty, goes to show in an emergency a scrap battery has a few miles in it to save the day.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
9,262
3,545
56
West Sx RH
In #20 I didn't phrase it to well.
What I meant was try the old battery's (not to see that they work in them selves) but whether the bike worked without cutting, thus ruling out a controller fault.
In PAS 1 you managed a few miles to work which is good, higher draw load did see it cut out but that is normal with knackered batteries.
 
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aardvark5

Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
212
73
61
ST3 Blurton
In #20 I dindn't phrase it to well.
What I meant was try the old battery's (not to see that they work in them selves) but whether the bike worked without cutting, thus ruling out a controller fault.
In PAS 1 you managed a few miles to work which is good, higher draw load did see it cut out but that is normal with knackered batteries.
I have two nearly identical setups using Cyclotricity/KT Systems and both have cut out with the '5 mile battery' but when I put it on a lower PAS I can make the 9 miles needed but I must remember not to use throttle.

I'm that desperate I'm looking on eBay now for somebody who can send me a bottle or downtube battery for around £160 as quick as possible until I'm sorted with the new batteries which I estimate will be a two week turnaround.
I don't have a car and I'm on the waiting list for two knee replacements (should never have competed in marathons) so I need my bikes to get to work and back.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
9,262
3,545
56
West Sx RH
I have two nearly identical setups using Cyclotricity/KT Systems and both have cut out with the '5 mile battery' but when I put it on a lower PAS I can make the 9 miles needed but I must remember not to use throttle.
I have two 14.5ah batteries using a throttle or high PAS is a no no now as they sag terribly and will cut out, using only PAS 1 or 2 I can get eke out 30 -40 miles. Use PAS 3 and lucky to go 16 miles. Like your old 9 mile battery a sign of ageing cells or cells suffering from high IR causing heavy voltage sag/collapse.

Mine are fit for purpose which is local commute and errand running, for my other bikes I use mainly my own packs which I build or 10s lipo's.
 
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D

Deleted member 25121

Guest
So good news, I think she looked at the photo's I took of the battery labels and realised they were perhaps returns -

Hello
Thank you for your message as well as for the pictures attached. I am very sorry you have experienced such issues.
What I can offer you is a return label for both of the items and postage of replacements or a return label and a refund.
Please let me know which you prefer.
Kind regards
AP


Hi

I would like two batteries that work please

Dave



Hello
Thank you for your message. I can generate a return label for you. Once I generate one it will be valid only for 24 hours. Please let me know when you will be able to post these batteries and I will send you a return label for then.
Kind regards
AP



So when I get the 'new' batteries I will first test the voltage output of the chargers.
I'll charge to the green LED
I'll then test the voltage of the batteries.

Thanks everybody.
I'm pleased to hear that you (hopefully) got things sorted.
 
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aardvark5

Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
212
73
61
ST3 Blurton
I've received one replacement battery today and the first thing I did was check the charger - 41.9v.
Charged the battery to a Green LED which took 4 hours, checked the voltage which was showing 42v and just put it on the bike.
I'm going to leave it on throttle for 30 minutes and see if it's still going until 22:40.
Wish me luck.
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
911
185
73
I've received one replacement battery today and the first thing I did was check the charger - 41.9v.
Charged the battery to a Green LED which took 4 hours, checked the voltage which was showing 42v and just put it on the bike.
I'm going to leave it on throttle for 30 minutes and see if it's still going until 22:40.
Wish me luck.
Best of luck!!

Andy
 

aardvark5

Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
212
73
61
ST3 Blurton
It's just done 9 miles which is my commute distance so that's way more than the other two.
Of course it's only freewheeling and hasn't got my fat arse on it so I'll give it a proper test tomorrow.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
9,262
3,545
56
West Sx RH
What capacity is the new battery and do you know the cells used ?
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
9,262
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West Sx RH
11.6 PF cells then I suspect 10s4p.
For cycle life/longevity try and charge to 4.1v only and a full charge every month or two, three probably at most to ensure balance is good.
Good cells should keep their balance, it is the sitting at 4.2v that does in for them in the long term. When charging only carry out the final charge a few hours before use is required.
If you are using a Sans charger or a similar one then they have an adjustable V regulator inside.
The actual capacity held between 4.1v & 4.2v is very little and only account for < 5% of overall capacity, manufacturers and sellers like you to charge to 4.2v so that have to buy again sooner then later.
 
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aardvark5

Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
212
73
61
ST3 Blurton
11.6 PF cells then I suspect 10s4p.
For cycle life/longevity try and charge to 4.1v only and a full charge every month or two, three probably at most to ensure balance is good.
Good cells should keep their balance, it is the sitting at 4.2v that does in for them in the long term. When charging only carry out the final charge a few hours before use is required.
If you are using a Sans charger or a similar one then they have an adjustable V regulator inside.
The actual capacity held between 4.1v & 4.2v is very little and only account for < 5% of overall capacity, manufacturers and sellers like you to charge to 4.2v so that have to buy again sooner then later.
I've acquired 5 chargers so I've just opened one up and took it down to 41v so I'll use that all the time.
However, my intention is to swap the two batteries once a week no matter what bike I'm using, so on average they may do 50 miles one week and nothing the next.
Would you advise that I fully charge every 4 months now or still keep it to the 2 months?
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
9,262
3,545
56
West Sx RH
Trial and error but as you are alternating batteries stick to a routine that suit you.
Do a full balance charge every quarter on the pair and if all works out with no issue extend the balance charge by a month.
On ES some do a full balance charge once or twice a year with no issues.
If a battery does become unbalanced you will notice a lot less range or lvc cutting in.

With my near 6 y/o 29E batteries they have so far behaved when charged to 4.1v
 
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aardvark5

Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
212
73
61
ST3 Blurton
Big question

My second replacement battery has just turned up and the idiots have given me a 48v 17ah battery instead.
Will this work OK on my 36v bike and do I keep quiet about it?

My main gripe is that I wanted two identical batteries to swap between bikes so I'm in a quandry now.

Also what is this fitting called please?
 

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