Which bike for off-road?

Wisper Bikes

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Apr 11, 2007
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Hi Lloyd,

I would certainly put a couple of my bikes in, 905se Sport and 906xc Tourer, I would like to test the Alfine and air shocks on the 906xc to the limit.

Anywhere would be good for us, we would travel throughout the UK to compete although I think it would be better away from Presteign so people who find it difficult to get to Wales in the spring can have an alternative e bike event to attend.

What ever the rider weight is set at, there should certainly be a weight penalty, maybe 14 stones would be nearer the mark and the balance in a rucksack or on the frame at the choice of the rider.

I would also be very interested in setting up a real test for the efficiency of electric bikes, I have recently set up a testing plan for our bikes in China, if any other importer manufacturer is interested in developing a scheme please email me on dmiall@me.com. Maybe it is something we should do through BEBA.

I would love to put the hub drive, gear drive, torque sensor, cadence sensor, small light weight battery, larger powerful battery debate to bed once and for all.

All the best

David
 

Gepida uk

Pedelecer
May 11, 2009
75
0
Hi Lloyd,

I would certainly put a couple of my bikes in, 905se Sport and 906xc Tourer, I would like to test the Alfine and air shocks on the 906xc to the limit.

Anywhere would be good for us, we would travel throughout the UK to compete although I think it would be better away from Presteign so people who find it difficult to get to Wales in the spring can have an alternative e bike event to attend.

What ever the rider weight is set at, there should certainly be a weight penalty, maybe 14 stones would be nearer the mark and the balance in a rucksack or on the frame at the choice of the rider.

I would also be very interested in setting up a real test for the efficiency of electric bikes, I have recently set up a testing plan for our bikes in China, if any other importer manufacturer is interested in developing a scheme please email me on dmiall@me.com. Maybe it is something we should do through BEBA.

I would love to put the hub drive, gear drive, torque sensor, cadence sensor, small light weight battery, larger powerful battery debate to bed once and for all.

All the best

David
Hi David,

I agree this should be done through BEBA, I will back this all the way.

Aid
 

Lloyd

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
166
0
I'm not :(

Surely to test an bikes off-road capabilities an off-road cycle track would be ideal? Riding down a field and a gravel track won't prove much on its own.

I would say something similar to the 'Top Gear' challenges would be ideal.

A comfort test (an independant rider completes a control course on each bike and marks on ride comfort)

Build quality (bikes are ridden over a more technical course and any failures/bits falling off are scored against them, as are rattles and noises etc)

Handling (again a course designed to test the bikes ability to handle off road (NOT rider skill), could include mud/roots/grass/gravel/inclines/descents etc.

Durability (ride them until they stop riding/fall apart! :D )

This may prove what is the most off-road capable bike, or it may just get everyone very dirty :p Either way it'll be a fun day out.

Speed doesn't come into it at all, if you put a decent off-road biker on the worst ebike ever made he will thrash a novice on an optibike. :rolleyes:
 

Lloyd

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
166
0
Just to clarify, the 'Im not' bit of my last post was aimed at going to presteigne......I am just too slow at typing.
 

john

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 1, 2007
531
0
Manchester
And a set of rules - i.e. Bike out of the box with a set of allowed mods (typical mods that an off-road rider would make) such as changing the pedals, mudguards, tyres, stopping battery rattles etc
One of the issues to test is how the electrical components stand up to off-road use (abuse), so these should ideally be all standard, i.e. no extra support for batteries or connections.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
One of the issues to test is how the electrical components stand up to off-road use (abuse), so these should ideally be all standard, i.e. no extra support for batteries or connections.
Agree...Should be out of the box bikes. just like you and I would get, with the exception of tyres. but then maybe tyres should be the same on all bikes as well?
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
Tim I have this tucked away in the garage and would be very interested in fitting a kit to it. So if you move ahead with a Marin project I'm with you
I've been having a debate with myself since I started this thread. Converting the Marin is attractive as it is a well specced bike to start with. If I convert the Marin, then I've narrowed the choices to a 350/250w Bionx, an alien kit or a Heinzmann:

Bionx = possibly the best kit, will take my disc brake, good battery, enough torque for climbing, easy fit (nice youtube vids), heavy, most expensive around £1400 imported (350w), not sure about support, no UK dealer, electric mountain bikes can supply a kit but then the price goes to £1550 (if website price is accurate).

Alien = cheap at under £500, lightweight (use hub and throttle only), UK dealer, lose the disc brake (I think, maybe stays on the 250w, waiting for an email from them), battery seems OK from reports.

Heinzmann = Middle expense, older tech from reports, range of motors good, lose disc brake I think.

Each one should be an easy fit with the Marin though ;)
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,532
23,366
Heinzmann = Middle expense, older tech from reports, range of motors good, lose disc brake I think.

Each one should be an easy it with the Marin though ;)
The Heinzmann front motor can have a disc brake, but it's a very large diameter one clearing the motor diameter. I've see photos from Kinetics previously, showing it.
.
 

Stumpi

Pedelecer
Dec 3, 2009
192
40
Scotland
I've been having a debate with myself since I started this thread. Converting the Marin is attractive as it is a well specced bike to start with. If I convert the Marin, then I've narrowed the choices to a 350/250w Bionx, an alien kit or a Heinzmann:



Alien = cheap at under £500, lightweight (use hub and throttle only), UK dealer, lose the disc brake (I think, maybe stays on the 250w, waiting for an email from them), battery seems OK from reports.


Each one should be an easy it with the Marin though ;)
I have recently bought an Alien GS11 and although the bike is fairly low spec(worth the money) the kit seems to work very well. I would be happy with that level of performance from my Marin.

So far my thoughts are


I would consider losing the front disc but I'm not sure how Vee brakes would work being in mind there are no brackets on my forks. So if I'm factoring in a new set of forks and brakes etc that’s adding to the cost quite a bit.

It crossed my mind to have the controller and battery in a purpose built back pack. That would keep the bracketry to minimum and have an extra level of suspension between the hardware and the terrain.

Off road I would think front hub motors take the most pounding and crank motors the least. Can anyone confirm if I'm right?

I'm hoping to sort something over next winter with a budget of £1500, my options so far are

1. Fit a kit to the Marin
2. Sell the Marin by a high spec hardtail MTB with Vee brakes and fit an alien kit
3. Sell the Marin and buy a Gepida/ Wisper/ or other Pedelec MTB
 

nitrambo

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 5, 2008
8
0
The Alien 36V 250W kit uses the Bafang QSWXB2 motor if I am correct.

It might be worth asking Alien if they could substitute the 36V 250W Bafang QSWXK motor which does take a disk brake... alternatively you could get the Alien kit as it comes and substitute the QSWXK motor with disk brake yourself (they can be sourced fairly easily from Europe and/or China for around £80 - £110).
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
I've been having a debate with myself since I started this thread. Converting the Marin is attractive as it is a well specced bike to start with. If I convert the Marin, then I've narrowed the choices to a 350/250w Bionx, an alien kit or a Heinzmann:
Your bike looks great, but cant see where the battery could be accommodated:confused: twin suspension is overkill and a difficult E bike fit IMO

I am thinking of this KTM now, £1500 and I can get one in Belgium which I have to visit next month anyway. 250 watt BionX but I doubt it will have a throttle, should be available to retro fit I hope...maybe I should just get used to life without one:rolleyes:

KTM Bikes // Bikes vom Besten!
 

Stumpi

Pedelecer
Dec 3, 2009
192
40
Scotland
The Alien 36V 250W kit uses the Bafang QSWXB2 motor if I am correct.

It might be worth asking Alien if they could substitute the 36V 250W Bafang QSWXK motor which does take a disk brake... alternatively you could get the Alien kit as it comes and substitute the QSWXK motor with disk brake yourself (they can be sourced fairly easily from Europe and/or China for around £80 - £110).
Thats great news many thanks
 

Mussels

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2008
3,208
8
Crowborough
Your bike looks great, but cant see where the battery could be accommodated:confused: twin suspension is overkill and a difficult E bike fit IMO

I am thinking of this KTM now, £1500 and I can get one in Belgium which I have to visit next month anyway. 250 watt BionX but I doubt it will have a throttle, should be available to retro fit I hope...maybe I should just get used to life without one:rolleyes:

KTM Bikes // Bikes vom Besten!
I love KTM motorbikes but I wouldn't trust a KTM ebike as the donor bike is unknown, the spec list is incredibly lacking with a strange mix of gear components. I'd much rather source my own donor bike with reviews on bikeradar so that I know what I'm getting.
I doubt KTM make the bikes, I wonder who does?
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
I love KTM motorbikes but I wouldn't trust a KTM ebike as the donor bike is unknown, the spec list is incredibly lacking with a strange mix of gear components. I'd much rather source my own donor bike with reviews on bikeradar so that I know what I'm getting.
I doubt KTM make the bikes, I wonder who does?
Thanks for that, probably better of with a decent bike with a good kit. cant get one from Belgium, so it would mean mail order from Austria. going round in bloomin circles:confused:
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
1. Fit a kit to the Marin
2. Sell the Marin by a high spec hardtail MTB with Vee brakes and fit an alien kit
3. Sell the Marin and buy a Gepida/ Wisper/ or other Pedelec MTB
This is close the second debate I'm having with myself:

Buying a purpose made ebike will provide a bike built for the job at more expense than a conversion but with lower componentry than the Marin.

Buying a purpose made ebike will provide possibly a longer warranty, depending on the bike (Wisper at 2 years on battery).

Buying a purpose made ebike will provide the opportunity to use a bottom bracket motor which is possibly more suitable offroad (but that debate has already started) and less or equal weight than a Marin (base bike is around 15Kg, 23-25Kg converted)

The Marin as a fantastic bike unassisted, as an average fit rider, it might compromise the ride, so I might want to save it for unassisted rides.

So the question remains, convert or buy branded, if buy branded, which one? :confused:

The 906xc tourer looks to be a nice bit of kit, it has a front hub, why? What is special about the Dapush motor?
 
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eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
"The 906xc tourer looks to be a nice bit of kit, it has a front hub, why? What is special about the Dapush motor?"

Because it has an Alfina 8 geared hub on the back wheel, so has to have a front wheel motor.
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
Your bike looks great, but cant see where the battery could be accommodated:confused: twin suspension is overkill and a difficult E bike fit IMO
A full susser might look overkill, but if you are taking it on single track mountain terrain it will beat non rear suspension for technical ability and fast downhill ability and it won't kill you in the process. And it is super smooth on the roads. Good componentry helps here as well with Fox suspension all round, I should point out that the suspension is fully adjustable and the rear has a lockout.

The alien kit battery and controller can be mounted on the seatpost (for the 250w), they provide the kit for it, alternatively it can be carried in a rucsac (similiar to the Paratrooper on electricmountainbikes) and it looks like I can source a disc motor easily, although I'm sure Alien can provide this, I'm just waiting for confirmation.

Fitting would not be tricky if only the front hub and throttle control are fitted, no need for pedelec or brake switch.

So the bike is up to it, is the 250w motor?
 
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eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
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why would you need an electric bike for downhill riding:confused: the weight of an e bike will surely work against you.
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
why would you need an electric bike for downhill riding:confused: the weight of an e bike will surely work against you.
1. Because you can
2. You have to get up the hill in the first place
3. You have to get back up the hill to do it all again
4. Repeat 3
5. Then it could take you to work

It seems so far that branded ebikes have mainly been built for the road and that MTB's have been ignored - until now :D
 
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