Yosepower hub kits.

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Deleted member 4366

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250w or 350w makes no difference. It's just a number written on the motor. The power comes from the battery and is regulated by the controller. The motor can affect the speed because each motor has its own maximum speed, which is completely independent from its power.
 

Nealh

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You boys need a 20a controller :), in #1 I listed the watts for each PAS and with 48v it's even better. PAS 4 about 600w & 5 900w if you need it for them's hills.
 

PC2017

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You boys need a 20a controller
I get it. this means my dilleneger controller must be more amps than the yose controller??? So is a 20a controller safe to use on a 36v battery???

Edited for reasons of being a bit thick!

So I have I just read most of this post going back a few pages and now my above question seems to me to be a tad or maybe more, ignorant and I apologise for that, I seem to lack the knowledge base to go any more advanced than: here's a kit, install it, and be happy...however I am curious!

What is a "shunt mod" - I'll start there...
 
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Different batteries can supply different currents. You need its specification to find out what its capability is. Cheapo batteries are OK up to 15 amps. As a general rule, you want a battery that can give a continuous current of 5A more than the controller's maximum.
 

PC2017

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You need its specification to find out what its capability is
All mine says is 14.5ah - from the details on the dill website it should contain samsung cells that are now at least 2 years old!

The motor can affect the speed because each motor has its own maximum speed, which is completely independent from its power.
Is there anyway of know what the max speed of a motor is before buying it?


If at any time you get fed up with my questions let me know lol
 
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14.5Ah would most likely be OK at 20A, but if it has a 20A BMS, it could cut out.

Ask the supplier what the motor's max rpm is, otherwise your best hope is info from the forum when someone has already got one.
 

footpump

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hi all yesterday 11hilly miles covered lcd3 loses one bar but pas 4/5 and throttle used down to one bar at 16 miles.
so recharged and did 5 miles in mode 3 flattish and find I am down to 3 bars,
at 12 miles I am down to one bar?

throttle set to 25kph on flat reads 430 watts same as pas 5.

the kudos vita uno originally had 10ah bottle battery, bafang 8 fun rear hub,
3 levels of assist, controller unbranded 15 amps max and I used 32f 14r.
the battery would still give 15 miles but only on the flat voltage sag at the slightest slope.
nearly always used med pas

the 350w seems a bit quicker to get to say 14mph than the 250 8fun did
at same pas settings. but 350 seems a tad harder going up a local hill gearing still 32-14.

shunt mod (adding solder to shunt increasing resistance and making it give more amps I believe)
soldered my shunt, controller 15amps max
bit hard to say wether there is an obvious difference only tried pas 3 battery level on lcd at 2 1.5 miles later it dropped to one barDSCF1609.JPG DSCF1610.JPG
 
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PC2017

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250w or 350w makes no difference.
So this thread has opened a small can of worms for me and I feel for those who have purchased the 350w YOSE kit because I would wrongly have assumed that it would at least match my current speed due to the fact I am now accustom that few extra MPH and torque.

Does the wattage make any difference to mid drive kits, in relation to speed or does that too depend on RPM, make and manufacturer???
 

footpump

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my 13ah dolphin 15 miles covered , multimeter reading 38.6 I recharge
12 miles covered yesterday multimeter reading 37.1 battery has only done 1000 miles.

I fitted my 17ah yosepower which is new about 70 miles on it.
now I can tell a difference pas 2 is much more usefull, I can trundle along at about 14mph, and did a few hills on pas 3.
so change of battery? or shunt mode? or both combined
the lcd dropped a bar at 11 miles, a further bar at 16miles.

as far as I can judge the 350w kit gives a similar performance to my tdz2, and the throttle seems to get up to speed quicker,

using the same battery on my tdz2 250w sport mode doing the same route as today which is about 18 miles +flattish odds and sods I get 35 miles range.

today 18 miles in total I doubt if I will get another 17 miles with 2 bars remaining from battery.

it seems the 350w does consume a fair bit more than if 250w? amps set to 16 on tdz
 
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PC2017

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it seems the 350w does consume a fair bit more than if 250w?
Mine does and now the battery is getting older I notice it, I have 2 batteries one 10ah and one 14ah between them they've done 1000+ miles each I started at 35miles(10ah) and 40miles (14ah) now its 22 and 27 if I am pedalling a lot however this new bike has less speed to gear ratio than my other the motor takes over at 15mph and all my pedalling is just activating the PAS, I mite change the front cogs.

Anyway so just to get this right in my head cos I am well confused, FOOTPUMP your using the 350w yose rear wheel hub motor rated at 260rmp ??? what amp is your controller? and what is your top speed on flat full throttle no pedalling???

Edit sorry: PLEASE
 

footpump

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moter 350w controller 15w (but have done shunt mode) the moter rpm info seems to have disappeared from the website.
not tried top speed of throttle specs say 22mph max, with bike on stand throttle gave 22 mph no load speed
 
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Does the wattage make any difference to mid drive kits, in relation to speed or does that too depend on RPM, make and manufacturer???
It's complicated. You have to understand the basics first. The maximum output power is what determines the maximum speed that you can go in any fixed conditions. It's determined by the battery and the controller. You can say Volts x Amps x 0.75. On an MTB, you need 250W to go 15 mph and 1000w to go 30 mph. That power is the sum of motor and pedal power, but as the speed goes up, pedal power becomes less significant.

Now for hub-motors. They have a maximum speed, which depends on the voltage, so we'll simplify it by only looking at 36v ones. At that voltage, each motor has its own max speed by design. No amount of power will make it go any faster.

It's because a motor is also a generator. It generates voltage in proportion to its speed. When it gets to its max speed, it's generating 36v in the opposite direction to the battery, so the net volts is zero and power is therefore zero.

At zero speed, it doesn't generate any voltage, so the whole 36v is trying to push current through the motor, which would cause so much current that it would burn, but the controller only allows a fixed maximum current to protect it. That means that the maximum current available is flat at say 15A until the speed is high enough to reduce the voltage enough to cut the current below 15A. After that point, the increasing speed makes the current ramp down to zero at maximum rpm.

What all that means is that you cannot get max power at max speed, and the faster you go, the less power you can get to help you. A lower powered motor with a higher design speed (doesn't generate so much) will therefore produce more power at high speed than a high powered one.

All the same rules apply to crank motors in any one gear, but you can change the speed by changing gear, but each time you go up a gear, th motor's torque decreases. The crank motor gives you access to high power more of the time, so in a race, a hub-motor used as a crank-drive will always beat it when used as a hub-motor. A bike's top speed with a crank motor is only limited by the max power according to the rules in para. 1.

The basic idea is to have a controller and battery that can give the power for the speed you want, and for a hub-motor, you want one that has its maximum efficiency at your modal speed. Max efficiency is approximately at 75% of maximum speed, so if you wanted to travel at 15 mph, you'd choose a motor with a maximum rpm equivalent to 20 mph and you'd have a real life max speed of 17 or 18 mph.

All this is further complicated by the changing battery voltage, which is 42v when charged and 31v when empty. Everything changes in proportion to the voltage.
 

PC2017

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Nice one d8veh thanks for the explanation, you can rest easily in the sound knowledge that this student will never surpass the teacher!

I might look into mid drive just for the fun of it lol, all I really want is not to change batteries (36v) before they completely die!
 
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Don't forget that the power comes from the battery. If it's already waning, the last thing you want to do is put it in a situation where it needs to give more power.

Changing the battery and controller to 48v ones gives an instant 33% gain in maximum power and speed.
 

PC2017

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Sound advise thanks D8veh, It does look like I will have to upgrade to 48v, So fair to say 48v battery and a 20a controller, I didn't really want to go above 350w or would it be better to go 500w and limit the speed in the LCD settings?
 
D

Deleted member 4366

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If you have the power, you can always turn it down, but if you don't have it, you can't turn it up.

A thing to note is that if you have a 20 mph bike and a 36v controller, the current will most likely start ramping down from about 15 mph or lower, which would mean a maximum of around 7A by 17.5 mph, but with a 15A controller at 48v, the ramp won't start until20 mph, so you get double the power at 17.5 mph and a hundred times the power at 20 mph compared with 36v.

I run my 48v bike at 14A, which gives easily enough power for 20 mph cruising.
 

PC2017

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I run my 48v bike at 14A
I was thinking that based loosely on what you've already told me and it was kinda my next question, running 48v battery and a low amp controller, so I know your going to hate the next question what motor are you running on?? and whats your complete setup specs??
 

footpump

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i was out today and found I could use pas 1 ok on the flat,(rather different than my Friday test with different battery and prior to shunt mod)
so I can see you can use a lower pas setting. myself I do not seem to peddle over the 15mph cut off , so am always using the moter/battery.

I would consider a 36v17ah a biggish battery even if not the best cells.
today down to one bar at 25miles so range might be 30 miles at best.
I can understand upping controller to 20amps as has already been done by nealh, and far more wattage in pas modes.

the 15amp controller supplied with these kits are suitable for 36v not 48v due to capacitor rating

so psw power have 36/48v 20 amp ones for instance but there non jullet connection so there must be a different moter to controller cable?

so must a new lcd /throttle controller non jullet connections be bought.

if one goes 48v route would battery consumption be worse
 
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I was thinking that based loosely on what you've already told me and it was kinda my next question, running 48v battery and a low amp controller, so I know your going to hate the next question what motor are you running on?? and whats your complete setup specs??
It's a Q128C motor that's similar to the Yospower cassette one. the controller is a KT 14A with the LCD3 and the battery is a standard 11.6Ah 48v dolphin type from BMSBattery.
 
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