Steb

That's blatant unfounded uninformed prejudice. Just the unthinking brexit was based on. I know a Syrian surgeon who's wife and child drowned on a med crossing working in an A&E in Malta because it was his first port of call and EU regulation specify one should seek asylum there. We have a dire shortage of A&E consultants in UK. Frankly, with this kind of xenophobic prejudice we deserve this and the state our healthcare is in.

That, I'm afraid, is the kind of manure that made many vote brexit. Largely they seek work. They contribute much more than the natives who - and its no coincidence - often expect houses and benefits for doing fanny all.

apologies for a rehash of what's been said, but - that - a mechanism for a second referendum - would require a reasonable public discourse about the reality of brexit. I fear this isn't on offer. I don't know what would make this available. its a bit like finding a way to have a conversation with the Donald about not treating women like objects. perhaps some softening up via painful economic circumstance may help. but that may equally propel us all into a more disturbing reality.

I know we're in uncharted water and strange things have happened recently, but I am not ready to put down a tenner at any odds on the lib dems being in power any time soon. TM, like Rees Mogg, is an opportunistic heartless nutter that will do any damage to the UK if it provides her with power. it comes down to the electorate's sentiment I fear.

they have always been. their finding the courage to speak out because the electorate's jingoistic seizure is (thankfully)wearing off a bit.

yes, though (it must be said) the extortion was excruciatingly enjoyable. May, all maybot fake smile, anxiously handwringing, blatantly buying herself a job with taxpayer money, damaging the tories even more, clearly neither stable or strong. I found myself wishing the DUP would up the stakes, gradually, ask for 4000 billion pounds, all the ex colonies, the cabinet to run naked down oxford street.

Do they? There is a difference between consent and informed consent. The brexit decision was based on lies. Beyond these on enormous ignorance.

isn't it a bit rich to blame the eu's banking system after the anglo saxon world sub prime fuelled the financial crisis of 07/08?

You'd love maputo (capital Mozambique), no red tape at all. Spread a reed mat on a pavement and your good to sell any product. That is until you find out the succulent prawns you've been eating are farmed in the local sewage system, where there are far more toxic matter than human excrement to be worried about. Certification is good for the consumer.

i disagree, the NHS is the largest employer of immigrants in UK (by very, very far). it's not fuelled by economic growth, it's the care needs of an ageing first world population that certainly know how to offload on the front page of the daily mail if someone didn't come to clean the diapers (as og more or less says). an incongruous mix of right wing political bias and left wing demands for care.

I sometimes link with a local NHS team - have done for some years. it is ironic. ten years ago the staff were permanent, predominantly white, perhaps 30% immigrants (Poles, French, even Italian). Now post brexit around 60% are agency staff - non white (Nigerian, south African, Zimbabwean, Indian, Pakistani). they're all very skilled, responsible clinicians. as an aside their ethnicity doesn't matter - what really does is that their agency staff - its bad for them and the tax payer, but that's another matter. However, there's an irony - the UK needs immigrants, badly. we're an aging population lacking skilled young tax payers. They will come from somewhere. the lies about immigrants brexitters believed were just that - lies. their not a basis for any future - immigrants will have to come, in significant numbers.

Thanks, same here, brexit I think stirs up intense stuff in everyone

look on the bright side, the whole brexit debacle has been transforming - for all of us. here you find yourself recognising that Hargreaves was naïve, and whether one likes it or not (and I don't) the world waking up to something of a mini right wing revolution as some aggrieved voters who don't feel part of a globalising world go reactionary. its a great deal more expensive than psychotherapy (I think), but it is a catharsis of sorts. we are all capable of racism. we all need to engage in healthy self critical self reflection to keep it in check. there is no need to leave the thread just because we're getting into our collective baggage.

your patriotism is poignant, but unfortunately also misguided and deluded. confounding the decision about eu membership with patriotic fantasies about "who we are" is I think what got us into this mess.

if you read my previous post you'll note that I in fact offered you an opportunity to climb out of the box leave voters dragged themselves into public consciousness in - by asking you to provide a reasonable justification for brexit - as opposed to the "immigration" (make that closet racism, as research on immigrants contribution to UK society prove) arguments and other manure (as spread by Boris). I note you haven't taken the opportunity. I must confess I'm not surprised. its a familiar experience when asking a leave voter to explain their vote.

I think he falls in the "naïve" with delusions of grandeur category http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-peter-hargreaves-lansdown-leave-eu-referendum-share-price-a7108871.html do you have any personal views or do you only quote others?

tell you what - you provide a reasonable basis for voting brexit and I will retract my post. with reasonable I mean not based on fake news about immigration or the kind or manure boris spouted. until you do I'm afraid I and the rest of the world will have to conclude that brexit was about "immigration"(in the fake sense where that's really closet racism) and uninformed political "naivety" (some might say stupidity). I'm afraid no one is going to shield leave voters from the truth about their decision, and my post is simply stating the truth.

i we will become an unexciting Albania, European adolescents will come as adventure tourists to do charity work and research on evolutionary dead-ends

look, in a less heated sense I can completely sympathise with your desire for a Europe with varied cultural contexts. I like it that way too. but an integrated Europe does not threaten that, it enhances it. a healthy family is one I which differences are not only tolerated, but allowed increasing free expression. its again stating the obvious but uk had much more international clout as part of the eu and (and I am originally from Belgium) local;l culture thrives in the eu

there are plenty of people with an interest in necrophilia. it doesn't mean we make it a key part of the national curriculum. it's the 21st century, most civilised life forms take a greater interests in values and principles than arbitrary geographic boundaries. you are I think saying you suffer from some form of patriotism and that you think Britain "should be made great again"? what was that I was saying about grandiose delusions..

another brexit platitude - care to explain what you mean with "taking back control"? the eu is about the benefits of collective, shared values, interests over narrow nationalist, racist self interest. apologies for stating the obvious, but that's why it was created, it could do the same for the narrow minded racist elements in british society that it did post war for the same dynamic in broader European politics.

what ARE you smoking? the bigoted morons who voted brexit would never accept a reduced fee/participate in single market deal. even if they did the EU wouldn't. what you describe is essentially us begging the EU for scraps. that may be a negotiating strategy, but definitely not a good one.

we have made a decision (brexit) that is essentially about closet racism and grandiose delusions. in the long run it is financially and socially catastrophic (it cuts us off rom a life blood of new skill, talent and trade relations). America can get rid of their trump (and insane, racist trump moment of failed judgement). we cant get rid of brexit. we will ive with the consequences. It's a bit like having the trump family ordained to reign over usa for the next fifty years. Yup, it will collapse, slowly but inexorably.

Big money may be corrupt, but it's not quite depraved (in the way of, say, a brexit voter). Take a cleptocracy like south africa, it is owned by big money (Zupta brothers), but big money, in an I situational sense, is fleeing and the rand collapsing. Big money likes a degree of civilised infrastructure as much as most non brexiters.