Are you seriously trying to tell me the Kalkhoff in the clip climbed well?

 

It came second, a poor second, in a contest of two.

 

I thought the battery was flat.

 

Don't believe everything that you see on telly. The Gadget Show is pitched at the same level as X Factor and I'm a Celebraty, Get Me Out of Here.

 

I own a crank driven bike and I know from first hand experience how well they climb, how kind they are to the transmission, how efficiently they deliver the power and how unnecessary a throttle is. On how much direct experience of crank driven bikes is your commentary based? My concern is that you are putting people of a perfectly good drive system, that may well suit them, based on what you have watched on a garbage TV show.

 

The crank drive bike probably lost out because the rider didn't understand how it worked and didn't use it for long enough to work out how to get the best performance out of it. A crank drive does require the owner to develop a riding technique. This doesn't suit everyone and they would be better off with a different type of bike, but for those who the crank drive system does suit, it's wonderful.

Edited November 21, 201213 yr by tillson

Why do i need to look at the clip I have tried albeit briefly both bikes , the fact is that the lady was struggling was down to her not the bike . I have been close to buying Kalkhoff bikes before,there is nothing inherently wrong with them at all.

 

Alan

 

The lady riding it was spinning a low gear to climb a hill, which is a good cycling technique.

 

The bike appeared to be not providing much assistance, which to me indicates a weakness in the way the power is delivered.

 

As I mentioned earlier, a throttle would cure that, giving the rider the option of power on demand.

 

I expect my gadgets to do as I tell them, not the other way around.

 

Doesn't this bike have Kalkhoff's own Impulse version of crank drive?

 

I note a couple of other posts from Kalkhoff/Panasonic owners who say their bikes climb well, so maybe the Impulse drive is the one to avoid.

the comparison test (pause here for laughter) was erroneous and a joke. a much fairer comparison would have been with a Haibike, and I know which one I would rather own...a powerful hub bike will always appeal more to some.

Edited November 21, 201213 yr by eddieo

RobF

 

I will not continue with this , all I shall say is simply try them before you regurgitate someone elses prejudicial comment . If I had the time or inclination I would answer your individual points just made BUT I reckon on past experience of answering you its a total waste of time.

Not going to defend RobF as I don't necessarily agree with him but as I see it the Kalkhoff/crank bike owner/supporter are just as bad saying things like the NEO only won because it was not UK legal etc which is not the case.

 

Personally I feel its good that both types of drive system exist, as while I personally prefer one to other I am willing to accept that the alternative is preferred/better for others. I will continue to suggest to people they try the NEO as I feel its a good bike/system but there is no way I will then follow it "Dont go near crank bikes as they are rubbish" or deride them when they decide they prefer something else which seems to be what far to many people on here are prepared to do.

Any show that tests gadgets by putting explosives under them, is just a show and not much more.

 

Having said that, it's great publicity for e-bikes in the UK !

The lady riding it was spinning a low gear to climb a hill, which is a good cycling technique.

 

Yes it is....for a non assisted bike or a hub assisted bike. The impulse like the Panasonic version is counter intuitive to this. Instead of spinning she should have been mashing and lowering her cadence, then it would have provided more assistance. It takes getting used to and for some it will never feel right.

We don't need to have a debate about which is best, crank drive or hub drive. The main point is that the Neo has a motor more than twice the size of the Kalkhoff. It has more copper wire and bigger stronger magnets, so it's no surprise that it stormed up the hill twice as fast as the Kalkhoff. It's nothing to do with which system is best or pedalling technique. Simple physics. If you have more power, you can climb faster. I've tested both bikes and what I see in the video is exactly what I'd expect.

We don't need to have a debate about which is best, crank drive or hub drive. The main point is that the Neo has a motor more than twice the size of the Kalkhoff. It has more copper wire and bigger stronger magnets, so it's no surprise that it stormed up the hill twice as fast as the Kalkhoff. It's nothing to do with which system is best or pedalling technique. Simple physics. If you have more power, you can climb faster. I've tested both bikes and what I see in the video is exactly what I'd expect.

 

I think it's only fair to point out that the Neo needs a big motor because the motor is stuck in a single gear. For instance, my car would need a big thirsty engine if I only had 5th gear available. It's a brute force approach. I'm not knocking it, the brute force approach coupled with a big battery to feed the power hungry motor might suit some people, others may prefer their motor to take advantage of the bike's gears, get used to the quirks, and achieve the benefits associated with this type of arrangement.

Edited November 22, 201213 yr by tillson

I think it's only fair to point out that the Neo needs a big motor because the motor is stuck in a single gear. For instance, my car would need a big thirsty engine if I only had 5th gear available. It's a brute force approach. I'm not knocking it, the brute force approach coupled with a big battery to feed the power hungry motor might suit some people, others may prefer their motor to take advantage of the bike's gears, get used to the quirks, and to achieve the benefits associated with this type of arrangement.

 

Agree entirely, The Neo does not have a large battery though.........along with the cheap components and high price I really don't get it.

Agree entirely, The Neo does not have a large battery though.........along with the cheap components and high price I really don't get it.

 

You just could not resist

 

May be you should try one

I really don't get it.

 

Nor could you catch it - on a Kalkhoff.

GaRRy....I remember d8veh trying the Neo at the Bristol green event and saying how very impressed he was with it.....and I really trust his advice and knowledge.

 

I was too busy with Cyclecharge to try it then, but I intend to.

 

The one good thing about certain peoples obsession with knocking certain bikes is that it gets your chosen bike model LOTS of publicity........'every cloud' etc

 

Im sure there are lots more members now more aware of the benefits of BH Emotion Neo and Tonaro bikes than before....great stuff :D

 

Lynda

I think it's only fair to point out that the Neo needs a big motor because the motor is stuck in a single gear. For instance, my car would need a big thirsty engine if I only had 5th gear available.

 

Of course if you had an electric car you wouldn’t need a gearbox. Luckily the torque characteristics of an electric motor are very well suited to vehicle propulsion, hence their popularity in larger vehicles not dependant on batteries, by enabling the elimination of the gearbox or torque converter.

My current Favourite bike is the Ave XH-3...Bosch is simply lovely to ride...BUT..my very close run second favourite is the Emotion Neo Extreme.

 

Two very different systems,with different characteristics,but both are absolutely great bikes!

 

Luckily for me i get to ride many different Brands and styles of bike on a very regular basis,so i don't get too stuck on one particular model-my favourite changes from month to month lol,and i feel i'm in a good position to give fair appraisal of quite a few brands.

 

There really is no "Better" bike when specs are similar-it comes down to personal requirements/preference every time.

 

Some may be better value for money on paper due to spec levels etc.....but how can you put a price on sheer enjoyment? Sometimes a bike just feels right.

 

Nobody can fairly judge a bike until they've ridden it,so i would like to invite any Members up to the shop for test rides,biscuits ,coffee and chat every Saturday until Christmas.

Sorry technique does play a part with the impulse and panasonic systems, anybody whos lived with them will know.

Low powered electric cars benefit greatly from a gearbox, there is a 10kw powered one down here that does over 100 kph and can climb the steepest hills still due to having gears.

Plus wattage wise our bikes are close to human output, have you ever ridden a single speed in hilly terrain?

I think it's only fair to point out that the Neo needs a big motor because the motor is stuck in a single gear. For instance, my car would need a big thirsty engine if I only had 5th gear available. It's a brute force approach. I'm not knocking it, the brute force approach coupled with a big battery to feed the power hungry motor might suit some people, others may prefer their motor to take advantage of the bike's gears, get used to the quirks, and achieve the benefits associated with this type of arrangement.

I'm not sure that the Neo needs a big motor, but it's a fact that it has one, and you're right that if you use the full power, the battery will be used up more quickly; however, it also has a panel where you can turn the power down, so if you wanted to go the same speed as any other bike, it'll use approximately the same power depending on exact conditions.

You just could not resist

 

May be you should try one

 

Pot kettle black?

 

I'm not going to go out of my way to try one, but would like to at a show or whatever.

 

But I believe you, Dave and now Martin, regards the performance, but to me and others there is more to e bikes then being initially thrilled. So I already know it rides well, but the small battery for this type of bike + cheap components just don't stack up in my opinion...under £1500 maybe.

 

anyway my contributions are to add balance, not aimed at the converted, but to the wider audience. Caveat emptor.... all that glitters is not gold

Edited November 22, 201213 yr by eddieo

Firstly can I state I have no loyalty to either brand. We sell both and both have their qualities. We have found some people try the Kalkhoff and the similar crank driven BH City 700 and the sales of both are about equal. Not the Neo I know, but just saying the quality of the BH bikes is there and taking on Kalkhoff!

Back to the Neo, I have to say this is my main commuting bike that I used in the shop was the Neo just because it was so much faster than the C8. The C8 is more comfortable though and a great bike. But the video on the Gadget show was fairly accurate, although Polly didn't look like she was making that much effort and would have been better in a higher gear.(talking from experience here)

To give you some idea how much quicker the Neo is: I commute 13.5 miles and it takes 45 minutes on the Kalkhoff and 40 on the Neo.

As I have said, both are great bikes, just different!

Edited November 22, 201213 yr by electriccyclecentre

Yes we all agree it goes like stink no problermo!lol

 

Range please, with what is considered a very small battery with a powerful (hence the performance?) 350 watt motor. someone says he gets 28 miles in ECO...If I ride my crank drive in ECO I COULD get over 100 km.....and yes it wont be as exciting (golly gosh) but I will be riding way after you will be pushing...So come on, help us out here, range please on max assist. Because as Tillson says, a big hungry hub motor and controller needs plenty of fuel.

I got 27 miles in hilly terrain using sport mode, but I was putting some considerable effort in as well! Others have reported 15 miles in the same. But they have been lets say "larger" blokes than me at 10 1/2 stones.

I'd say 35-40 miles should be achievable in standard mode if you are a light weight and willing to work with the bike.

 

I must add: This was on a brand new battery and in good conditions.Although for me range wasn't important, just as long as it got me to work and back I was happy. I know this is unique to each person but....

Edited November 22, 201213 yr by electriccyclecentre

Nah,he's told you wrong there...if you hold down the light button,the backlight comes on.

If you hold down the "up" button,you activate the 6kph auto mode-ie keep holding,and the bike rolls at 6kph without the pedals rotating-there is no 350watt mode.

Hi

 

Quote removed from banned account

 

 

Philip

 

As Martin has said, he was having you on.

 

Do you think he might have been talking about the BH Nitro? I can't find proper specs on this bike but earlier in the thread someone mentioned it was for off-road use only, in terms of its overall legality.

 

Reading this thread has been fascinating in terms of arguing over relative performance of the different bikes. I am now a happy owner of a Neo Cross and, as I bought it to help me up moderately steep London hills, it is very much fit for purpose. I liked both of the Kalkhoffs I took round Bushey Park but found both a bit dull.

 

I got a kick out of both the AVE XH-3 and the Neo Cross when test driving 25 to 30 different models and went for the one I thought would suit my needs best. Out of all the bikes, they were the only 2 which I found exhilirating to ride.

 

Phil

What's the Neo's max. current draw?