If it's any help, I know a motorcycle dealer who imports a brand of motorcycle from a central European country. Every Monday he takes two such motorcycles on a trailer to his nearest government testing centre and has them individually single vehicle approved. (Note not "type approved" - "type" is when you get one vehicle approved and then that approval applies to every example of that type of vehicle.) The dealer tells me that even though every motorcycle he takes to the testing centre is identical, they never fail to check every single aspect of the approval each time. The cost of single vehicle approval for the low power moped class is £55 per vehicle.

Thanks Two bikes, very interesting.

 

Love the name, brings to mind, Arthur "two sheds" Jackson of Monty Python fame.

That's exactly it.

The cost of single vehicle approval for the low power moped class is £55 per vehicle.

 

It's £85 for an S class e-bike though, their assisted speed is up to 45 kph (28 mph).

 

The Low Power Moped class is restricted to 16 mph.

... their assisted speed is up to 45 kph (28 mph).

 

Ah, yes. This will also mean that S class e-bikes will need to have all the equipment that motorcycles have. It's a long list. I read about someone trying to get single vehicle approval for a moped that he'd powered using a lawnmower engine or somesuch, and he only managed to do it because he could classify it as a low power moped.

Well, its all doom and gloom. I feel quite depressed.

 

I'm going to buy some petrol and go for a spin on my motorbike.

The cost of testing is negligible in the context of the thousands of pounds charged for a high-end Grace bike.

 

If a few mods are mandatory like indicators, horn etc. then having looked into the costs you're only talking about £100 or so of dealer-fitted customization which can be optional for the buyer to save them doing that themselves.

 

I'm sure if there was a will to actually put these bikes on sale (and someone will make a healthy margin off 'em) then having established the parameters with a couple of demonstrators and made them compliant it would most likely not be a big deal at all to get single vehicle approval for them - and for customers buying an 'S-pedelec' and wanting dealer to do that for them rather than them doing it themselves - their choice.

 

Probably less research for those in the business in fact than it's taken me to find a way of rigging up a couple of lights at the voltage I want to run them at, switched on the way I want to switch them on. All the work is up-front with these things. Then once you've established the how, at least with a commercialized operation you get to make that work for you going forward for sales.

 

But it may just be too much effort and easier just to not bother and try to sell more of the regular EU-compliant non-'S' bikes. No extra red tape to have to worry about that way, just a bit more PR with prospective buyers ... and a flat test route

Yes come on Wisper,make history! Register and insure a 45kph ebike.It could open up a whole new market!

If the law continues to be an utter ass about this I think what I might do is look seriously at getting an old snotter Honda /Yamaha stepthrough and electrify it. Simple change of power plant, akin to what I mentioned to flecc about re-motoring an ancient poppop.

The smaller stepthroughs, once shorn of surplus weight, would make reasonably good shopping bikes and be insurable, MoT-able, taxable (zero) and the brakes, suspension, tyres, etc are all cheap to maintain and up to the job. Plus, the bike's already been fully approved from day one.

 

Thinking on.. it needs nothing more than a 2, 3 or 4kW rear hub motor - where the current engine /gearbox assy is would occupied by batteries, so keeping the weight low down as before.

 

 

There are probably more conversions on the road than S class e-bikes, try this ;

 

Converted bikes • JozzBikes : PeaceHaven Electric Vehicle workshop

I really can't see the point in this?

 

Surely the real attraction of an ebike/pedelec is that it is a BIKE. After insuring, licence, indicators, approval, a ridiculously big helmet, number plate and cost, you're in moped/motorbike territory anyway?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a spin on a 30mph bike, but our laws in the UK would make it almost impossible to ride.

 

I'll stick to my motorbike licence for motorbikes, and my ebike for 15.5 mph thrills in shorts and a t-shirt, and no worries about safety clothing and insurance!

Personally I don't think those "difficulties" amount to a bag of beans! Most responsible ebike riders have insurance anyway,and a licence;the TA ,no.plate and cost are up to the seller,so it's really only the helmet,which is sense at 45kph.

Edited March 6, 201313 yr by hoppy

Don't get me wrong I don't think they are insurmountable issues, I just think that these issues will stop the S class becoming mainstream bikes in the UK.

 

(And personally I'd feel a bit of a plum riding around on a bike with a number plate on it!!)

Nearly 100,000 motorcycles registered in UK each year,about 5 times the ebikes sold here.I'll be happy to sail past you doing 15mph on my plated bike doing 28mph in my helmet!

Edited March 6, 201313 yr by hoppy

There are probably more conversions on the road than S class e-bikes, try this ;

 

Converted bikes • JozzBikes : PeaceHaven Electric Vehicle workshop

I've seen that before when I first got interested in electrifying motorcycles. In 2008 or earlier, batteries were a fearsomely expensive item for any worthwhile range, and there was nothing like the choice of suitable motors that are available now. Those two reasons were why I shelved the idea.

However, to be a success, it has to conform the to cheapskate in me, which is reduce, re-use, recycle old tat.

Which is why, if I do it, it will be a shi toldhonda shopper. Cheap as chips and easily available.

Don't get me wrong I don't think they are insurmountable issues, I just think that these issues will stop the S class becoming mainstream bikes in the UK.

 

That's just it, though - they won't. But they're a niche market with a certain buyer attracted to them (especially at the astronomic prices usually asked - £3k upwards if I remember from the last time I looked). Enough to make it worthwhile someone selling them.

 

As with all these things - how they are used is up to the buyer as long as they are responsibly informed. The point is that by offering to see to the registration and dealer-modding to conform to UK criteria (just like with cars or any vehicle) and having this as a service option at point of sale, no-one could point a finger at the dealer in the event of later mishap in circumstances where the user failed to register and was involved in an incident. It would be abundantly clear where any responsibility lay.

 

This means buyers not left with ambiguous ideas about what they needed to do or how they're allowed to use the bikes, and dealer is covered both morally and practically. What the buyer then does or does not do with the bike they purchase is entirely up to them.

Nearly 100,000 motorcycles registered in UK each year,about 5 times the ebikes sold here.I'll be happy to sail past you doing 15mph on my plated bike doing 28mph in my helmet!

 

Not necessarily, I may have chosen to take my 'proper' motorbike that day!

Quite so,Rich! All good fun! Aren't we lucky to have so many different types of vehicles to play with? Can't see why more powerful ebikes need be so expensive though.

The big downside of S bikes both in Germany and the UK is not only the extra provisions that have to be made to be legal, it's the fact that they are banned from cyclepaths, shared use pavements, bridleways, and in Britain, Sustrans routes. These immediately limit the market for them.

Nearly 100,000 motorcycles registered in UK each year,about 5 times the ebikes sold here.I'll be happy to sail past you doing 15mph on my plated bike doing 28mph in my helmet!

 

 

Yes, but you'll be on the road with all those nasty cars whilst we'll be on all those lovely traffic free cycle lanes ;-)

 

EDIT:-

 

I see flecc has just made that same point.

 

If I want to ride fast, on the road and cheaply - I'll do it on a motorbike. There is no "cheap" legal high speed ebike option in the uk atm. It's cheper to get a low cc motorbike - and even a cheap motorbike will perform miles better than an expensive ebike.

Edited March 7, 201313 yr by amigafan2003

I'll stick to my motorbike licence for motorbikes, and my ebike for 15.5 mph thrills in shorts and a t-shirt, and no worries about safety clothing and insurance!

 

I'll stick to my motorbike licence for motorbikes, and my road bike for 20mph thrills !! in shorts and a t-shirt, and no worries about safety clothing and insurance!

If you have never ridden one of these amazing machines, do try and get hold of one for a quick ride. They are incredible and worth fighting through the red tape to get them legalised in the UK.

its nice to see that nothing has changed in over 2 years... dealers are still selling these bikes without giving their customers any reassurance as to what happens to them if they get caught using them, or are more seriously involved in an accident.

 

At the moment the shops / brands that are protecting their customers and also their own business by not selling these products are being penalised for playing by the rules and being responsible.

 

Hopefully the situation will change and a level playing field can be created.

its nice to see that nothing has changed in over 2 years... dealers are still selling these bikes without giving their customers any reassurance as to what happens to them if they get caught using them, or are more seriously involved in an accident.

 

And everybody is still happy.

its nice to see that nothing has changed in over 2 years... dealers are still selling these bikes without giving their customers any reassurance as to what happens to them if they get caught using them, or are more seriously involved in an accident.

 

At the moment the shops / brands that are protecting their customers and also their own business by not selling these products are being penalised for playing by the rules and being responsible.

 

Hopefully the situation will change and a level playing field can be created.

 

We agree Collin, get the flags out!

 

We are working hard to get them within the law, should happen in the next decade or two!

 

Claud says hello!

 

All the best

 

David

I think it will eventually happen the EU will ultimately insist on harmonisation (as per the rest of European road traffic law) and the British Government will eventually comply. Just look at what happened with compulsory daytime running lights on cars, the British Government resisted but ultimately complied just like they will eventually with the S pedelec. What Germany wants Germany will eventually get and they are the country driving this change. Just watch all the little EU countries fall into line over the next few years.