Being homosexual is according to the experts generally not a choice, it is how you are, the law caused great harm and inhibited acceptance.

 

Fully agreed, but the freedom of choice still existed, to practice or not to practice, so still relevant to the subject of a right to choose.

 

Australia having a compulsory cycle helmet law is their governmental right of choice overriding individual choice. I'm just glad the UK government and the European Commission see this issue rather differently.

So comparing ones sexuality, to a drug proven to cause massive health problems and a device that can be shown to potentionally save lives and injury, makes sense to you?

I am not comparing them.

I understand and value freedom.

That's it.

If anybody has cheap head like me, Aldi have reduced their ski/snowboard helmets to clear. I bought one Wednesday along with my favourite Herring fillets in mango and peppercorn sauceo_O, last adult size one in our local store reduced to £10.49, keeps my ears lovely and warm.

Lol . Aldi herrining fillets ymmm Seriously the Aldi helmets are not a bad bang for the buck.

 

I see a lot of opposition to mandatory helmet use. Where I lived in Canada it was mandatory. When I was struck from behind, training for a race there, 4 years ago I was more than happy I was wearing one even though my head did not sustain an impact. That time. Fast forward to two 1/2 years ago, here in England, I hit oil on a corner doing about 20mph. The first thing to hit to ground was my head. Glad I chose not to enjoy the "freedom" of not wearing one just because I could go without. I would vote for mandatory use.

I would vote for mandatory use.

 

But why Emo rider? Ok, you've bounced your head on one occasion and could have done on another, but in 67 cycling years I never have. The community cost isn't a valid reason since those like me who haven't bounced their head on the tarmac prove they are not accident prone. Indeed I've never cost any health service a penny for a single slightest accident of any kind in 77 years. It's the accident prone who are an additional cost to the health services and that's regardless of whether they wear protection or not, cycle helmets being wholly inadequate to prevent injuries.

 

The "it could happen to you" argument isn't valid either, since it's just a "what if" argument that works both ways. I can equally say "what if a truck runs over you" like the six recent deaths in London, what use is your helmet then?".

 

Why not just exercise your own choice and leave others free to do the same for themselves?

But why Emo rider? Ok, you've bounced your head on one occasion and could have done on another, but in 67 cycling years I never have. The community cost isn't a valid reason since those like me who haven't bounced their head on the tarmac prove they are not accident prone. Indeed I've never cost any health service a penny for a single slightest accident of any kind in 77 years. It's the accident prone who are an additional cost to the health services and that's regardless of whether they wear protection or not, cycle helmets being wholly inadequate to prevent injuries.

 

The "it could happen to you" argument isn't valid either, since it's just a "what if" argument that works both ways. I can equally say "what if a truck runs over you" like the six recent deaths in London, what use is your helmet then?".

 

Why not just exercise your own choice and leave others free to do the same for themselves?

 

Using your "logic" anyone that has never had a car accident shouldn't have to pay for compulsory third party insurance, but after they have had one they should as they are "accident prone".

 

Rider skill is a factor but luck is a major player as well, also the first time you do fall maybe the one that causes a permanent brain injury.

 

The truck agument is silly, its the same as saying there is no need for seat belts or airbags in cars as if you have a head on with a truck they wont save you, the fact that in the more common accidents they will which is why they are there.

 

I wont post to this thread any further.

Using your "logic" anyone that has never had a car accident shouldn't have to pay for compulsory third party insurance

 

 

Completely illogical, that refers to the risk to others, helmet wearing solely refers to injuries to oneself.

 

It's fundamentally a personal choice.

I wear a helmet because I want to. That is my free choice and I don't want some busybody-nanny knows best-control freak telling me I MUST wear one.

This used to be a free country, but now I ask, just why did our freedom go?

It went because we allowed ourselves to be controlled by people with an agenda.

Completely illogical, that refers to the risk to others, helmet wearing solely refers to injuries to oneself.

 

It's fundamentally a personal choice.

It is all about chance whether or not you have an accident whether it be in a car or on a bike. There are some accidents that the helmet will help and others that won't I agree. As for the mandatory part of it, it is not just protection for the wearer.

 

The big picture is protection of all so that the uninjured won't have to pay for your 24 hour full time care if you do suffer a preventable head injury. I am sure you and your family will want the very best of care for you as someone will have to change your diaper on a regular basis.

 

I personally know some of the staff at a head injury care facility. I know that the centre was opened by the father of a man named Peter. Peter was a young police officer, husband, and father to a young child when he was knocked off his bike by a car. He has been in 24 hour care since, must be almost 10 years now.

this is the link to their site:

http://petersplace.precisionhealthgroup.com/

 

To all the "I've never had an accident, I want my freedom of choice et all, ad nausium" I hope I never have to spent my tax dollars to have your diapers changed. In the mean time I will wear my helmet and pray you do not have to look after me either.

The big picture is protection of all so that the uninjured won't have to pay for your 24 hour full time care if you do suffer a preventable head injury.

 

But I've answered that argument in my earlier reply to you.

 

Also, where does this stop? Two wheeler riders in accidents suffer many spinal injuries with a high incidence of ending up largely paralysed and in wheelchairs. In racing, appropriately braced and reinforced leathers protect against that, so shouldn't they be made compulsory to avoid those incidences of lifelong support?

 

There is more than one greater good. In addition to the medical one you argue, there is the greater good of getting more people onto bikes for the sake of their health, the environment and everyone else's health. Since there is abundant evidence that helmet wearing compulsion reduces existing cycling and its adoption, an either/or situation exists.

 

The fact is that the pro-enforcement argument has never ending possibilities and a line has to be drawn somewhere. I and my UK and EU governing bodies have drawn the line short of compulsory cycle helmet wearing in favour of the latter greater good.

 

The Australian government of 23 million people has decided on compulsion. Our 28 European governments of 460 millions have decided otherwise. That's good enough for me.

Edited January 13, 201412 yr by flecc

I used to do a bit of sailing and a lot of fishing in small boats. I had one of those Kayaking type life jackets because I had a Kayak as well, but I never wore it. One cold November day, I went fishing in my small sailboat with a friend. It was really cold, so I put on the lifejacket as a body-warmer under my PVC jacket. I was wearing wellies and PVC over-trousers as well.

 

You guessed it. On the way back, I was taking down the sails when my mate mis-steered, which caused me to get knocked into the sea by the boom. I would never have been able to swim with all that gear on, and even with the lifejacket, it wasn't easy to keep my head above the water. That was the only time in 30 years of regular boating that I went overboard, and the first time I ever wore a life-jacket. I guess that used up all my luck, which is why I never win the lottery despite helping loads of grannies across the road even when they don't want to.

 

It's the same with biking, most of the time, nothing dangerous happens, but anything can happen when you don't expect it. You have to weigh up the risks and consequences against the inconvenience of wearing one.

 

When I was a kid, biking was more common, but there were no helmets then, and nobody ever spoke of the risks, other than basics of competency in traffic. There were no cycle paths then either, and you definitely were not allowed to ride on the footpath. Despite all that conditioning, I wear my helmet most of the time now, partly to look like a cyclist to avoid being stopped, partly for warmth, and not so much for safety.

I came off my bike today after hitting black ice. Again I managed to keep my head away from the road and a thought occurred to me. Are broad shouldered people less likely to get a head injury in this type of incident than the slim person?

 

 

I did not have my Aldi snowboard helmet on but did have my Aldi Fishermans beanie hat. And it stayed on.

I came off my bike today after hitting black ice. Again I managed to keep my head away from the road and a thought occurred to me. Are broad shouldered people less likely to get a head injury in this type of incident than the slim person?

 

I don't know, but in past helmet threads many have reported that in various "offs" they've never hit their head or helmet. Certainly a high proportion of cycling spills are lowsides, a circumstance most likely to impact along the side of the body with the head held away from the road by the body width.

Personally, having fallen off bikes and motor bikes a few times, I always found a good pair of gloves to be of more use, and when my children made those first faltering runs on a two wheeler, I insisted on them wearing gloves.

I came a cropper a few weeks back, off road. Crashed the bike into a river, and hit my knee on the big chainring. I managed to ride home, fix up the bike, check my phone wasn't drowned, then I had a look at my sore knee:

 

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/14/umuzutum.jpg

 

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/14/y8aqe8y9.jpg

 

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/14/zehajagy.jpg

 

I was wearing a helmet, but perhaps knee pads from now on.

It is all about chance whether or not you have an accident whether it be in a car or on a bike. There are some accidents that the helmet will help and others that won't I agree.

Yes, if you are looking for a helmet that will protect the rider in a road traffic accident then they look like this.

 

http://www.getgeared.co.uk/Shoei_Qwest_GlossBlk_l.jpg

 

Years of study have made these the legal minimum for those riding motor scooters and motorbikes in traffic. You can't legally wear a bicycle helmet to ride a motor scooter at 20mph as statistically it won't save you and the motorised community acknowledge this as fact, why you would feel the statisitcs change for someone on a bicycle at 20mph I have no idea.

 

Cycle helmets simply aren't designed for collisions in traffic of any sort, you can captivate an audience by dropping story after story of a terrible yet remarkably generic "brain injury" of a friend of a friend of someone who knew someone who told me and people who have smashed up bicycle helmets but it really is just a good example of sudo science at work.

Indeed, I understand that BS cycle helmets are tested for 12 mph direct top impacts, so only catering for a few circumstances and at a very low speed. No doubt they can be good protection against some minor impacts, avoiding painful surface wounds.

 

But the statement often heard, particularly from surgeons, saying "would have been killed if they weren't wearing a helmet" is sheer nonsense. A poorly located thin wad of polystyrene over a very small part of the head cannot provide anything like that degree of protection, and the testing authorities never claim that it would.

Indeed, I understand that BS cycle helmets are tested for 12 mph direct top impacts, so only catering for a few circumstances and at a very low speed. No doubt they can be good protection against some minor impacts, avoiding painful surface wounds.

 

But the statement often heard, particularly from surgeons, saying "would have been killed if they weren't wearing a helmet" is sheer nonsense. A poorly located thin wad of polystyrene over a very small part of the head cannot provide anything like that degree of protection, and the testing authorities never claim that it would.

Indeed, and there are plenty of brain-injured and dead people who were wearing motorcycle helmets as they should have. Unluckily for them, the brain got a bit squished or sqirrelled around inside their skull, and in many cases of brain-spin, the helmet wasn't damaged much, if at all.

A lot of it's down to luck, good or bad. On balance, I prefer the choice on bikes and I never voted for compulsory helmets on motorcycles, either. Having said that, I always wear a m'cycle helmet on my m'bikes and only trundle along at 10, 15mph when I'm shopping - I travel 400 yards from teh top of the village (the bank) to the bottom (the supermarket) without a lid. Rebel, that's me.

12 months ago I woke up in A&E after going round a corner on black ice and I also woke up with a dislocated shoulder. I know 100% that my helmet saved my life or at the very least saved me from brain damage. All I can say is run into a wall head first with your helmet on and then try it again without the helmet.

12 months ago I woke up in A&E after going round a corner on black ice and I also woke up with a dislocated shoulder. I know 100% that my helmet saved my life or at the very least saved me from brain damage. All I can say is run into a wall head first with your helmet on and then try it again without the helmet.

 

Know 100% cannot be true. It may well have done or that may not be the case, we will never know. However, I'm glad you escaped with no life threatening injury and I've no doubt the helmet will have helped.

 

But as for your invitation to run into a wall head first with and without helmet, no thanks. I wouldn't do either since helmets are only tested to 12 mph impacts anyway.

 

Ultimately though you were speaking of your accident, so that has no relevance to me, I'm only exposed to my own circumstances and behaviour. Those have kept me safe for 67 years of cycling. Have I been off? Yes, last time only three years ago I slid off on spilled diesel hidden under a damp road surface corner, but just sat on the bike as I've done previously with low-sides so not a mark on me. That was due to the practices of my riding. Likewise I've always had maximum no claims bonuses on my car and motorcycle insurances and have a clean driving licence.

 

Please no "what if" arguments that it could happen to me. I've heard these all my life, but all that matters is what actually does happen, not what might have happened.

 

 

Please no "what if" arguments that it could happen to me. I've heard these all my life, but all that matters is what actually does happen, not what might have happened.

 

I'm gobsmacked that I've told you I woke up in A&E (with my colleagues treating me no less) from knocking myself out but you don't 100% accept that my helmet lessened the impact. We get our fair share of cycling head injuries in A&E and I would say 100% that every one would be less harmful with a helmet but you know better. Happy cycling.

 

I suppose you also believe that seat belts don't protect either because you've never experienced a head on crash.

Please no "what if" arguments that it could happen to me. I've heard these all my life, but all that matters is what actually does happen, not what might have happened.

 

But, as you know, after every event, there's an infinite number of outcomes. If you stoved your head in after one of your crashes, you'd be dead, so not able to experience it, nor tell the story; however, in another universe the outcome was different, so you've carried on living in that one (now this one), and you're able to tell the story about how you were unhurt. Have you ever wondered about how you've had so many near misses to death in your life, but somehow you've survived them all? Maybe you didn't!

you don't 100% accept that my helmet lessened the impact. We get our fair share of cycling head injuries in A&E and I would say 100% that every one would be less harmful with a helmet but you know better. Happy cycling.

 

Please don't misrepresent, I didn't say that, indeed I posted this opposite view in my post to you:

 

"I've no doubt the helmet will have helped".

 

so I clearly acknowledged that a helmet helps lessen injury.

 

My objection was to you saying that the helmet 100% saved your life, since you cannot possibly know that. That is fact.

Please don't misrepresent, I didn't say that, indeed I posted this opposite view in my post to you:

 

"I've no doubt the helmet will have helped".

 

so I clearly acknowledged that a helmet helps lessen injury.

 

My objection was to you saying that the helmet 100% saved your life, since you cannot possibly know that. That is fact.

 

I also said 'Or at the very least saved me from brain damage' and I trust my colleagues to know from their vast experience of accident trauma to know if that's true or not.

 

Another anecdote -

Last year a cycling friend who always wears a helmet but not while testing, was adjusting his brakes and trying them while just going 20 yards from his drive and back. On his 3rd test he slipped, fell forward and banged the front of his forehead into the ground resulting in a lost eye. He would have 100% not lost his eye if he had his helmet on. I now always wear my helmet even when I'm going a circle in front of my house testing brakes etc.

I now always wear my helmet even when I'm going a circle in front of my house testing brakes etc.

 

Hope you wear one in your house too. You could easily slip on a loose carpet and smack your head on the coffee table.

 

Hope you wear one in your house too. You could easily slip on a loose carpet and smack your head on the coffee table.

 

And body armour.

The other night I got out of bed without my walking stick and fell bang into the wall but you'll be happy to know I survived.