February 7, 201412 yr Hi im looking to buy a new bike and i need your help guys. The bike will be used mostly on the city in the winter but in summer i want to go for camping with it. i have choose 3 bikes that looks similar to me (i do not know much about bicycles) and what im looking to find is the real km range and the quality of the bikes, from real owners. So here is the 3 bikes that i like: KTM MACINA CROSS 10-400 (they claim 190km range) http://www.ebike-base.de/nc/en/ebike/model/ktm-macina-cross-4.html?tx_sgebikebase_pi1[dealers_sort_by]=52&tx_sgebikebase_pi1[view]=grid CUBE SUV HYBRID 29 http://www.ebike-base.de/nc/en/ebike/model/cube-suv-hybrid-29.html?tx_sgebikebase_pi1[dealers_sort_by]=16&tx_sgebikebase_pi1[view]=grid CANNONDALE KINNETO HEADSHOK http://www.ebike-base.de/nc/en/ebike/model/cannondale-kinneto-headshok.html?tx_sgebikebase_pi1[dealers_sort_by]=105&tx_sgebikebase_pi1[view]=grid If you own one of them or if you rode one, your opinion would be very appreciated. Also if you have the knowledge to compare the bike accessories (hubs, rims, tires, brakes etc) will be very helpful for me. Edited February 7, 201412 yr by chris2014
February 7, 201412 yr On looks alone the KTM does it for me, although the Cube looks neater just above the motor. I don't like Cannondales myself, and it has the older style motor. Not what you asked I realise, but that's how I'd choose from those three bikes.
February 7, 201412 yr "They claim 190km range" :rolleyes: Totally ignore daft claims like that. Battery capacity & range is possibly the single most-discussed topic on here & should come up spades if you do a search.
February 7, 201412 yr Range is dependant on a number of factors: bike/rider weight, how hilly the area is, what assistance level you have the bike in, whether it is winter or summer etc. I ask customers what range they would like and suggest bikes which meet their needs. I sell KTM bikes but would say that all Bosch powered bikes are similar. Key is to look at the specification and which you like the look of. For me the Cannondale looks a bit overpriced and I would choose 2014 motor (active or performance, 2013 version now known as Classic). Performance provides more torque but tends to be on bikes costing £2500 or more. You can download info about different Bosch systems here http://www.bosch-ebike.de/en/service/downloads/downloads.html
February 7, 201412 yr Don't buy anything without trying a KTM with the Panasonic hub-motor. According to the mountain climb test, it can go further and climb steeper than the Bosch.
February 7, 201412 yr If it was the same report I saw the hill was under 10% incline, I would like to see it repeated at 15% and 20% as any hub with rider assist will climb 10% grade or even without the hub Not saying it would not still do well just find the higher figures more informative. Edited February 7, 201412 yr by Geebee
February 7, 201412 yr yeah, range is a very arbitrary number thats based on a set of circumstances that aren't really that real world. So any number any brand gives you should be taken with a certain size pinch of salt. It is possible to achieve that range, but its not how shall we say "typical". But its the first thing every customer asks at any show, so all brands have to have a number thats based on the same criteria.
February 7, 201412 yr If it was the same report I saw the hill was under 10% incline, I would like to see it repeated at 15% and 20% as any hub with rider assist will climb 10% grade or even without the hub Not saying it would not still do well just find the higher figures more informative. The hill was between 20% and 25% gradient, which is why the Haibike packed up after 19km. The KTM went on for another 10 km after the Haibike packed up.
February 7, 201412 yr It is possible to achieve that range, but its not how shall we say "typical". 190km or 118 miles. Get real, maybe if you put the bike on the train. Why can't you and other manufactures print real world figures. I'll buy one of your bikes tomorrow if you can guarantee, I'll get that mileage out of each charge. Why lie?
February 7, 201412 yr 190km or 118 miles. Get real, maybe if you put the bike on the train. Why can't you and other manufactures print real world figures. I'll buy one of your bikes tomorrow if you can guarantee, I'll get that mileage out of each charge. Why lie? Hardly a lie, more an opinion - and one I agree with. In easy conditions - flat, no wind - I reckon the battery on my Rose/Bosch could last 100+ miles on eco setting.
February 7, 201412 yr 190km or 118 miles. Get real, maybe if you put the bike on the train. Why can't you and other manufactures print real world figures. I'll buy one of your bikes tomorrow if you can guarantee, I'll get that mileage out of each charge. Why lie? just to be clear... its not a lie... or even an opinion. brands like Bosch and KTM are HUGE companies, you can't print stuff like this and just make it up, it has to be provable, and it is. All I'm saying is of course for your everday rider who has hills and lots of traffic lights etc etc to deal with your unlikely to get that. but if a range is quoted, it has to be possible. Its not a lie.
February 7, 201412 yr We have access to about 30 different bikes including Kudos,KTM ,Haibike and BH. Forget the rubbish about these enormous ranges,ok put it on the Eco setting,put Wiggo in the saddle,make sure the wind is behind you and don't go up any hills and you can get a lot of distance. But in reality nobody rides their bikes like that,I have customers who put the power on max,use the throttle all the time and are not always in the right gear...they get 15 miles out of a 10 Ah battery,whatever the brand. The average is changing the power according to the terrain,only using the throttle on take off,putting say 50 per cent rider input and coping with average terrain,the norm is about 3-3.5 miles per Ah. Expensive crank drives are supposedly more efficient but my experience is that they are no different to the cheaper bikes. I had a Dutch company opposite my stand in Belgium,they had identical bikes to mine...note not similar,identical they had come out of the same factory. They had an advert saying their 10Ah bike was good for 100 km's,I claimed 30-35 miles from my identical bike. I made an offer to ride both bikes around the exhibition hall,if their bike covered twice the distance of my bike I would buy the beers for the rest of the week,if not they would buy the beers. They responded rudely,no confidence these Dutch in their own product!! Hehe. KudosDave www.kudoscycles.com Edited February 7, 201412 yr by Kudoscycles
February 7, 201412 yr Hi im looking to buy a new bike and i need your help guys. The bike will be used mostly on the city in the winter but in summer i want to go for camping with it. i have choose 3 bikes that looks similar to me (i do not know much about bicycles) and what im looking to find is the real km range and the quality of the bikes, from real owners. So here is the 3 bikes that i like: KTM MACINA CROSS 10-400 (they claim 190km range) http://www.ebike-base.de/nc/en/ebike/model/ktm-macina-cross-4.html?tx_sgebikebase_pi1[dealers_sort_by]=52&tx_sgebikebase_pi1[view]=grid CUBE SUV HYBRID 29 http://www.ebike-base.de/nc/en/ebike/model/cube-suv-hybrid-29.html?tx_sgebikebase_pi1[dealers_sort_by]=16&tx_sgebikebase_pi1[view]=grid CANNONDALE KINNETO HEADSHOK http://www.ebike-base.de/nc/en/ebike/model/cannondale-kinneto-headshok.html?tx_sgebikebase_pi1[dealers_sort_by]=105&tx_sgebikebase_pi1[view]=grid If you own one of them or if you rode one, your opinion would be very appreciated. Also if you have the knowledge to compare the bike accessories (hubs, rims, tires, brakes etc) will be very helpful for me. Chris,if you are anywhere near a dealer who has a good selection of many brands then try as many as possible,I guarantee you will buy a bike completely different to your initial choices. KTM is readily available in the UK,Cannondale and Cube very rare...the Cube rep at Eurobike told me they are not interested in selling e-bikes to the UK !! If you advise your location I can advise a dealer who has good stocks,a big list on the website does not always reveal good stocks. At £2k price I think KTM has some nice bikes. KudosDave www.kudoscycles.com
February 7, 201412 yr The motor in my bike's so efficient (Bafang BPM) that I once got 43 miles before I switched it on. If I hadn't switched it on, it might have gone 118 miles before the battery went flat, but in the event it just made it home on it's 10aH 12S lipos to complete about 80 miles on one charge. You can get 118 miles out of any bike if you pedal hard enough, but what's the point. The idea of an electric bike is to give power to help you padal. If the power lasts 118 miles you aren't getting much help.
February 7, 201412 yr People buy these bikes with the belief that they can expect upto 118 miles from a charge. Must be possible as the manufactures says so. BS, I challenge anyone to produce test data thats shows that this is a realistic figure. Better still, lets have one of the directors step aboard a bike and physically show me. People like KTM and other major manufacturers know that the any ordinary rider would need to be going downhill in a vacuum to achive this sort of figure. If it is not a lie, its a blantant attempt to mislead consumers and to me, totally unacceptable.
February 7, 201412 yr On looks alone the KTM does it for me, although the Cube looks neater just above the motor. I don't like Cannondales myself, and it has the older style motor. Not what you asked I realise, but that's how I'd choose from those three bikes. Same as that. The KTM has cleaner neater lines, almost in the same way that Genesis pedal bikes do.
February 7, 201412 yr I think it's got to the point that sensible buyers think of these mileage figures as ridiculous,I think the give away is that phrase 'up to'. What does 'up to' mean? It's such a meaningless term,it's like the adverts in the shop window , upto 90 per cent off....when you challenge what items are 90 per cent off,those items were sold on the first day of the sale. What we need is a defined standard over a controlled route,like the vehicle urban cycle,that would be very revealing! KudosDave www.kudoscycles.com
February 7, 201412 yr I've looked so many different bikes this week, that I'm probably wrong in this, but I'm sure that on the Bosch website, I recall seeing quite detailed duration stats for each mode and various conditions. Obviously I'm not saying that it should be taken as read, but it was for once a pretty thorough guide.
February 8, 201412 yr Author thank you all for the many post/opinions etc im not in UK, thats why i use km and not miles also i do not have access to many dealers for test many of those bikes, eg no dealer for BH Emotion in my country or even if here is a dealer most of the times does not have for test drive most of the ebikes. The only ebike that i have try is the Giant roam xr hydrid. Giant claim up to 80km range but when i test it in my normal daily routes i get 30km range. All 3 models that im interest use Bosch motor why i read here and there that Bosch motors give more miles per Ah and i want to find if thats true or not. KTM MACINA CROSS 10-400 (Bosch motor, 36V/11Ah/400Wh battery, no regen, 190km) the same bike with bionx motor KTM E-CROSS (Bionx motor, 48V/11,60 Ah/557 Wh battery with regen, 135km) thats not make sense for me, the bionx model have a way bigger battery + regen but have less range. Is it for real the Bosch so much better ? @[mention=7885]EddiePJ[/mention] how about you BH Emotion (i love this bike design) how many miles do you get with one charge ?
February 8, 201412 yr We are have Hobarts first ever organised E-bike ride in a couple of weeks (organized by the states cycling organisation) and apparently 4 retailers will have bikes available for rides, I will see if I can find a Panasonic hub in one of them to test. Anyone know if the Panasonic is available as a kit? might be good for my trike. I was forgetting that it wasn't Direct drive. Edited February 8, 201412 yr by Geebee
February 8, 201412 yr @[mention=7885]EddiePJ[/mention] how about you BH Emotion (i love this bike design) how many miles do you get with one charge ? This is quite a tough one to answer as my experience with BH has been a very negative one, but others say in the US have found the service superb. My bike has suffered from faults that it shouldn't but equally my riding has given the bike a very harsh time so other problems such as my recent motor failure cannot be attributed to the product, and is purely down to my use. Issues in the UK just come when you try to get problems with the bike sorted. As with other posts, battery life is a hard one to gauge, as I try to use the motor as little as possible and never take it out of eco mode, as there is zero difference between modes. If I put my mind to it and just used pedal assist, I could probably kill the battery in 15miles. Using a mix of assist and non assist, on off road mud and road conditions is 35miles. With on road use only and again mixing the assist non assist, I could probably push this to nearly 50miles, but you would really have to be committed to do this. I forgot to say that I weigh 12.5 stone (80kg) Personally, I think that you would be better off with a Bosch powered product, simply on the basis that at least you would/should be able to get things sorted if it happens to ever go wrong. Take a look at Haibike products as well, and whilst he might not be able to help with supplying you a bike, Martin on here. http://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/ would probably be able to give you some very sound advice.
February 8, 201412 yr Panasonic systems and Bosch for that matter are not available in kit form. Regarding BH we are currently considering whether to stock these again we stopped after the distributer changed. We have had one problem with one of their bikes and we are waiting to see what the outcome is berfore deciding to continue with them. Apart from being a bit slow the service has been good so far, collected battery/charger free of charge and should be replacing these.
February 8, 201412 yr G Regarding BH we are currently considering whether to stock these again we stopped after the distributer changed. I've come to the conclusion that BH build their bikes from cheese. Have you thought about stocking Giant? The range of bikes now looks rather nice, and the Yamaha motor looks built to last and with 36v 11.1ah (400wh) and 250W,60Nm the spec on paper looks good as well.
February 8, 201412 yr I really like the BH bikes so it is just a shame about some of the issues. The training experience was interesting but would not go into that here I haven't to be honest. I have heard new Yamaha crank drive is supposed to be good but not rode it and at top end I normally only sign a brand after trying the bikes. Very similar to Bosch so would want to know I could get spare bits if needed. We stock spare Bosch bits like Martin and I like the fact that we can get them so that would be my only concern if I was happy with test ride. Alot of standard bike shops tend to do Giant as there only e bike brand. We have someone from Cube coming to see us soon so will see what I think of them. Some of their models look good but prefer frame mounted batteries but some of their bikes have the battery positioned on the crossbar. I was also very impressed with some of the new A2B bikes which I tried at the NEC. However their styling on some of the bikes is a bit marmite but I like them
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