Is this the same for the sirocco 2?

No, the Big Bear and CDs are fast, the Sirocco 2 has plain vanilla 8-Fun SWXK motor, about half the power of the Big Bear and two third the power of the Woosh crank drives. All the powerful bikes have LCD to limit their speed.

 

Do you think that is worth spending another 1000 on the forks and brakes?

There are more than just hydraulic brakes and adjustable hydraulic fork. Things like paint, headset, crankset, chain, tyres, rims, saddle, grips, outer cables, lights, waterproofing are all better on a £2000 bike. You pay for quality. The Woosh bikes have good motor and battery - the rest is standard bike parts.

I can vouch for the Geared Dapu hub motor as fitted to the BH Easy Motion NEO Xtrem. Okay I have got through a couple of them now, but this is no way a reflection upon the motor. The first had a bearing issue, which was quickly resolved, and I'd image that they wouldn't let it happen again. The second motor went swimming, so totally my fault. If these motors can put up with my very tough demands, then there certainly isn't anything wrong with them. Mine at least have also been super silent.

Battery wise, the Xtrem currently comes with a 9ah battery which I could probably kill in less than 15miles, or equally get it to last approx. 35miles or more with careful use. Range is not really an answerable question, simply because everyone's riding terrain and needs are different, as is the speed settings that they use. I have altered the gearing so much on my bike now, that meaningful 'pedal only' road speed has been lost in favour of more suitable off road gearing.

BH are now fitting 12ah batteries to the NEO range, but whether this will make it to the Xtrem I don't know.

 

The Xtrem is a good do it all bike, but whether it would suit your needs is something that I couldn't answer.

 

There are more than just hydraulic brakes and adjustable hydraulic fork. Things like paint, headset, crankset, chain, tyres, rims, saddle, grips, outer cables, lights, waterproofing are all better on a £2000 bike. You pay for quality.

 

Not in the case of the NEO Xtrem.

Edited May 11, 201411 yr by EddiePJ

When you say not in the case of the neo, do you mean that you pay more just for the way it looks and the forks and breaks?

Is your experience with this bike positive?

When you say not in the case of the neo, do you mean that you pay more just for the way it looks and the forks and breaks?

Is your experience with this bike positive?

 

The component spec is very budget. The forks can be bought for less than £50.00 and brakes aside it wouldn't cost significantly more for the rest of the components, and the quality of the bearings is shocking. The paintwork isn't great either, and chips incredibly easily.

 

The motor and battery aside, I'd say that you are definitely paying for looks.

 

My experience of the bike has very much been a roller coaster ride, and certainly isn't one that I'd call positive. Having said that though, I really love the bike, and would certainly never get rid of it. Countless other owners have had no issues at all and are putting in some serious hassle free commuting mileage.

I have had to spend a lot of money on my bike to get it the spec that I want, which was totally my choice, and every ride on the bike makes me smile and want more.

If BH swapped out the forks for something decent, then the other minor niggles wouldn't matter. Sadly in life when something winds the crap out of you without getting resolved, which in my case was the front forks, it suddenly becomes very easy to find fault with everything else. I guess that what I'm trying to say is that just because my experience hasn't been good, it isn't to say that everyone else has suffered the same, so don't judge the bike solely from my experience.

 

If you were to ask me if I'd buy another if mine were to get stolen. I'd probably say yes, but I would want a decent discount in order to spec the bike back up again.

 

If you scroll down through this link, the modifications are detailed. http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/media/2013-bh-emotion-neo-xtrem.13/?page=1#comment-13

Edited May 11, 201411 yr by EddiePJ

Is nice how you improve your bike in the way that most of the people after problems and everything probably would sell it to buy another one.

Nowadays is very hard to decide which bike to buy but once you get one probably the best is try to enjoy and don't think about how would be others or regret about what you did.

Thank you Frankie.

 

I get as much fun from personalizing and trying to improve the bike, as I do from riding it. I certainly miss it when I don't have the use of it.

but nothing else i've ridden has the same immediate performance as any of the Neo's.

 

Eddie has touched on that point, it seems that it is that initial kick that gives the impression of speed. However he has said he goes faster on the Strava segments on the Bosch bike despite it feeling slower.

The climbs that are quicker on the Bosch are the hills with a gradual slope, rather than severe. The odd thing is that it never feels faster, but is.

The BH scores on long steep climbs though, and on one particular 1 mile long hard climb, the Bosch is approx 3-4mph slower over the distance. Get this next Wiggle ride out of the way, and I'm going to carry out some hill climbing tests carried out. The initial take off performance of the BH is always faster.

 

edit... I should have added that the Bosch system has done more for level of fitness than the BH. I strongly believe that without riding the Bosch bike in between my Wiggle rides on the BH, that I probably wouldn't be able to finish them. I have just been out this evening for a cracking ride using the Bosch, 17miles at an average speed of 17mph. Given the terrain that I ride on, that is quite a credit to the motor, and my legs were pumped and felt like jelly after the ride.

Edited May 12, 201411 yr by EddiePJ

Eddie has touched on that point, it seems that it is that initial kick that gives the impression of speed. However he has said he goes faster on the Strava segments on the Bosch bike despite it feeling slower.

 

I have sold both Neos and KTM Panasonic hub drive and I found the latter to be quicker it takes off like a train in top assistance mode (up to 400% assistance). However I do like both.

I can't get KTM in Dublin, that's why I am not thinking in one of them.

In the other hand as I said before I could get BH, A2B, Fast4ward and just 2 models of the kalkhoff (out of my budget)

If you compare the Neo Cross vs the Neo Xtrem for commuting, which one would be better?

And what do you think is working better, the Rear motor on the neos or the Bosch system in the xenion 650?

Thanks

I've readed on the internet, website provided here in a coment http://newwheel.net/electric-bike-basics/electric-bicycle-motor-systems (thanks for that)

Some kind of comparative, as far as I know. The bosch is little bit more reliable because the rear one is breaking the spokes and is easier to have issues.

The motor in the neo xtrem and the cross are geared, which I don't really know what is the difference.

About which one is more powerful I think are more or less the same, just the rear motor has a faster response?

As you can see, I am lost again hahaha

I am not looking for the best bike but I am looking for something good enough, and If I pay 2000 I just hope to get something that is worth that money.

A month today and 69 posts asking about various e-bikes since you joined Frankie!

 

You could dither for ever, given the huge range of e-bikes on the market, but ultimately the right one for you is the one you like most after trying out a few.

 

The weather is turning nice now for the Summer, try not to miss it!

I applaud frankie's attitude. Not afraid to ask why.

Note that his budget has more than doubled since. Didn't I say membership of this forum makes you spend more?

I agree it's good to ask Trex, but after all that effort he's just posted this:

As you can see, I am lost again

 

I think he really needs to start trying some to find those he likes, rather than just finding out the many that others like. That's just confusing him.

I have to agree with trex( I will spend more because of the forum hahaha) but looking for a better quality bike.

My way of thinking now is, once I'm going to spend money is better if I get something that i really like.

I have to agree with flecc as well, I want to get the bike to enjoy with the nice weather and that I have to get the one I like the most.

All my question are coming because of the unknown about the ebikes. I could say I'm kind of afraid and your experience could help me to don't get something wrong. I am lost in the way that now I know much more about ebikes and systems and I know that some are more reliable than others but like everything you get something good and something bad as well as nothing is perfect. I'm looking for the perfectionfor myself hahaha.

I will spend the weekend trying ebikes.

Thanks to all of you

When you've tried a few you may have queries, and that's a good time to ask to clear those queries up Frankie.

 

But some of the thinning out you'll do when you try them, for example:

 

When trying, some find they love crank drives, some hate them.

 

Seeing them in the flesh, you'll find some styles you greatly prefer.

 

And the way the various e-bikes operate will reveal some you much prefer and some you are unhappy with.

 

Those personal factors quickly reduce a large choice to a very small one, since it's what you will be happy with that counts the most.

I've never found a bike that

.....and I know that some are more reliable than others

 

Do you know, or have you heard? Unfortunately, you can't believe everything that is written on this forum. Would you like to give an example of one bike that's more reliable than another? That should start some interesting discussion!

Would you like to give an example of one bike that's more reliable than another?

 

I was meaning that as far as I know rear motors are the only ones that normally break the spokes because of the tension or the weight. So In that way I understand that front and mid normally don't have this problem.

Maybe is not more reliable but is harder to get small or big problems like that.

Am I right?

I agree with d8veh, it's difficult to prove that x is more reliable than y, simply because you are looking at small probability and many variables. It's better to judge the quality of the after sale service through real cases reported here.

I was meaning that as far as I know rear motors are the only ones that normally break the spokes because of the tension or the weight. So In that way I understand that front and mid normally don't have this problem.

 

Although that may have an element of truth, I remember one front hub motor e-bike which had a big problem with broken spokes, but only for some of the owners.

 

Owners of those prone ones had a very different view!

 

There is an element of chance as well as differing circumstances, so some unreliability can crop up in any e-bike at any price.

Frankie, I am guessing that the only difference between the NEO Cross and the NEO Xtrem is the wheel size.

I can only answer from my own experience of owning the Xtrem, that I have never had a spoke issue. I'm not kind with the usage of my bike, but I do keep a very strict schedule of maintenance which includes checking spokes regularly. I know of one person who does a daily commute on an Xtrem who has now broken several spokes. I don't feel that this is in any way the fault of BH, as his route takes in many speed humps that he never slows down for, and he also doesn't keep a regular maintenance programme going.

Whilst I push the limits of what the BH was designed for, I hope that somewhere along the line, that I do have some kind mechanical empathy.

 

When I last looked, the NEO Xtrem was considerably cheaper in Ireland than over here, and it was also cheaper than the NEO Cross.

 

If I had to decide between the two as a commuting bike, I personally would opt for the 26" wheel set up of the Xtrem.

 

If commuting is going to be the sole purpose of owning the bike, then I probably wouldn't be buying either. Whilst I own the Haibike Cross for my commuting duties, in hind sight I think that should have bought a Kalkhoff. My trouble is that I'm stupidly drawn by looks over function. The Haibike doesn't have the same durability look/feel about it.

Edited May 14, 201411 yr by EddiePJ

My friend Saneagle just had a couple of spokes break on his back wheel, and he has a front motor. There was a Kalkhoff with a mid motor that had terrible problems with breaking spokes. In 1989,I bought a relatively expensive bike from Halfords (£360), and the wheel more or less collapsed after a couple of hundred miles. You have to be very careful about drawing conclusions from limited samples and hearsay. It's clear that the early BH Emotion Neos had a problem because I've read lots of reports on them. I also know of dealers that reported batches of their bikes having problems with no cause identified and subsequent batches OK.

 

Even if spokes do break, it's not a big deal. You can get a complete set of decent spokes from Catsnapper for about £20. I certainly wouldn't make it a decision point on which bike to buy.

...

I certainly wouldn't make it a decision point on which bike to buy.

a lot of members are not so capable of sorting out broken spokes and other niggly repairs themselves, that's why they are prepared to pay £2,000 for the most reliable, trouble free bike. Now if you can design one, the world will beat a path to your new bike shed.

Is it a Kalkhoff? I don't know but I have read here just one story, a small problem with keeping the chain tensioned (posted by 103Alex1)

Edited May 15, 201411 yr by trex

All members are capale

a lot of members are not so capable of sorting out broken spokes and other niggly repairs themselves, that's why they are prepared to pay £2,000 for the most reliable, trouble free bike. Now if you can design one, the world will beat a path to your new bike shed.

Is it a Kalkhoff? I don't know but I have read here just one story, a small problem with keeping the chain tensioned (posted by 103Alex1)

 

All members are capable of fixing broken or loose spokes. It's not exactly difficult. The problem is lack of knowledge in how to do it. You can get a used wheel from a car-boot sale for a couple of quid, a copy of Sheldon Brown's guide, and after an afternoon's playing with them, you will have mastered a vital skill.

 

One of the Kakhoff models used 24-spoke rims with hub-gears. When the spokes broke, repair was very difficult because you had to do some disassembly of the hub-gears. I seem to remember that the advice was to chuck the whole wheel and buy a new 36 spoke one complete with hub-gears. I think Flecc and Tilson know something about these problems. Maybe they'd like to comment.

 

I just found this one. I forgot about this. Decent rim brakes like the hydraulic ones on some Kalkhoffs wear out the rims, so it's only a matter of time before you have the certainty that you'll have to get the whole wheel re-built, not just the possibility of a couple of spokes:

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/replacement-wheel-hub-for-original-kalkhoff-pro-connect.15986/

 

I'm not saying that Kalkhoffs are bad bikes. All bikes have advantages and disadvantages. All have servicing and maintenance issues.

One of the Kalkhoff models used 24-spoke rims with hub-gears. When the spokes broke, repair was very difficult because you had to do some disassembly of the hub-gears. I seem to remember that the advice was to chuck the whole wheel and buy a new 36 spoke one complete with hub-gears. I think Flecc and Tilson know something about these problems. Maybe they'd like to comment.

 

Indeed, the original Kalkhoff Pro Connect had Shimano 24 spoke wheels with the 8 speed Nexus gear hub in the rear that broke spokes from the outset. Shimano actually discontinued that wheel type almost immediately and the Pro Connects reverted to conventional 32 spoke wheels. With the hub gear being 24 spoke and problems locating 24 spoke replacement rims, the best solution was complete replacement of the wheel to 32 or 36 spoke. Fortunately not many of the 24 spoke model were sold before the change.