When I first joined this forum there was a direct speaking guy named EddieO and whilst he was outspoken with his views he was respected on this forum.

Eddie hated heavy batteries mounted on the rear rack,he thought they should be mounted on the down tube.

Eddie hated front axle power,declaring it causing understeer especially on wet roads.

Eddie hated weight,he referred to anything weighing more than 25 kilos as tanks.

Eddie hated anything that looked chunky,he wanted slimline frames

Eddie hated throttles,preferring torque sensor driven.

Eddie hated bikes that looked utilitarian,wanting production style.

 

Eddie was put into detention so many times that he finally crossed the good manners line and was expelled.

But for me,and I was often the butt of his comments,he was ahead of the technology curve and his desire to achieve lighter,better balanced,better looking e-bikes I respected and in fact designed the current Kudos range around those ideals. Yet some of the popular bikes currently desired on this forum are heavy,badly balanced and to Eddie's eyes tanks.

Have we gone backwards in design?

KudosDave

He also rode a bike with a big phallus sticking out of it, and he was the only one that couldn't see it.

 

Joking aside, there was some sense in what he was saying, but you can't exclude a bike because it doesn't meet your ideals. If a bike goes how you want it to, that should be enough.

Eddie was totally intolerant of anything that did not meet his ideals.

He was particularly insulting about the Tonaro range which I find to be good looking and efficient.

He was also very pro German to the exclusion of other makes. Maybe because he did not like throttles for some odd reason, and the mighty Bosch do not have throttles thereby meeting his total approval.

My ideals are 180 degrees opposite to his, but I did not find the need to hurl gratuitous insults at his preferences.

D8veh...I could have put money on you being the first to respond to my posting,flecc will soon have an opinion,no doubt.

The late Uffa Fox,respected yacht designer once said that the only form of transport where weight was an advantage was a road roller.

Weight hardly gets a mention now but 3 years ago the forum was paranoid about reducing weight,in all forms of transport boats,cars,planes are all getting lighter with subsequent savings in energy costs, yet we don't seem to care that with heavy batteries,heavy motors,heavy frames some of these bikes are high 20 KGs.,I picked up an A2B at a show,it weighed almost 40 KGs.

Weight saving costs and it gets progressively more expensive the lighter bikes become,my son in law has just spent many hundreds of pounds on special cranks to save 100 gms off his Bianchi.

I'm drafting the ideal current Pedelecs forum bike,20 Ah battery hanging out the back,

700 watt motor driving the front axle,throttle only drive,cheapie heavy frame and cheapie gears,pedals are redundant-footrests only,weight kept under 30 kilos,cost about £600.00...,is that really what we want???

It was a big effort to get these bikes down to 22 KGs,without resorting to expensive parts and our folder down to 18kgs. Every time I went to an exhibition most customers first reaction was to pick the bike up and I know one particular picky customer who walked round with a fishing scales,hehe!!!

KudosDave

Edited March 13, 201511 yr by Kudoscycles

Eddie was totally intolerant of anything that did not meet his ideals.

He was particularly insulting about the Tonaro range which I find to be good looking and efficient.

He was also very pro German to the exclusion of other makes. Maybe because he did not like throttles for some odd reason, and the mighty Bosch do not have throttles thereby meeting his total approval.

My ideals are 180 degrees opposite to his, but I did not find the need to hurl gratuitous insults at his preferences.

I think you have mis read my posting,I am very respectful of Eddie's ideals and must say that his knowledge of the German market I personally find missing now from this forum.

I certainly did not 'hurl insults at his preferences', I think I am supportive of his aims but not his communications to achieve those aims

I am very thick skinned so Eddie's insults were a mild amusement to me,I respect they offended others,he was sort of Clarksonish!

KudosDave

Edited March 13, 201511 yr by Kudoscycles

@KD was eddieo right? probably no. He did not hold on to his purchases for long though. Perhaps that says something.

He was quite rude to a lot of people, including myself.

He put me off buying into the BH bikes by commenting on the low spec parts on a bike in that price bracket.

 

Having read the woes of some members with these bikes I will be eternally grateful to EddieO.

I think he is still around riding his soon to be legal Haibike - rumor has it he has even recently recommended one of your Kudos bikes KD;)

Edited March 13, 201511 yr by shemozzle999

I'm with Eddie on light weight efficent performing machines.

And sub 20 kg is a must. It it's hard work to pedal then it hard for the motor to move.

Some of us need the heavier bikes to carry our fat lardy backsides. If I got on a lightweight bike Ii think I would crush it

I'm drafting the ideal current Pedelecs forum bike,20 Ah battery hanging out the back,

700 watt motor driving the front axle,throttle only drive,cheapie heavy frame and cheapie gears,pedals are redundant-footrests only,weight kept under 30 kilos,cost about £600.00...,is that really what we want???

 

Not me. although I'd like the option of a centrally mounted 20 ah battery.

He also rode a bike with a big phallus sticking out of it, and he was the only one that couldn't see it.

 

I remember that! I think Eddieo may have been showcasing that bike for David Miall who was still actively promoting his Wisper bike range back then, long before he moved on to become part of the Freego-Wisper group, FWG.

 

It had a powerful Dapu motor but that battery was horrible!

 

As Croxden mentions in #7, Eddieo was quite vociferous about the BH range, based on the near-budget range quality of the components for the price being asked. I think he was right about that. Equally, he and the other chap who sometimes supported his views and whose name now escapes me, were highly critical of the Storck Raddar which we rarely hear about these days. It was grossly expensive and couldn't go up hills as well as an early model Haibike which was much cheaper.

 

The EAPC scene has moved on but I do take the point made by KD. Most of the bikes available to us are still too heavy and only a few makers offer really lightweight bikes but the compromise is invariably a lightweight battery with limited range. Of those, I have never understood why more forum members don't ride Cytronex-powered bikes as I would bet that most readers here rarely, if ever, ride 20+ miles in a single trip, about the range limit if using power a lot on one of those.

 

At least, those bikes are light enough to attach to a car in the same way as regular bikes and very few EAPCs meet that criterion.

 

Tom

He also rode a bike with a big phallus sticking out of it, and he was the only one that couldn't see it.

 

Joking aside, there was some sense in what he was saying, but you can't exclude a bike because it doesn't meet your ideals. If a bike goes how you want it to, that should be enough.

one could debate the merits of front axle power or a downtube battery, but a big phallus sticking out of a bike must unquestionably be a good thing.

He put me off buying into the BH bikes by commenting on the low spec parts on a bike in that price bracket.

 

Having read the woes of some members with these bikes I will be eternally grateful to EddieO.

 

Eddie was right about BH,the warranty problems and difficulty of sorting them out caused us to drop BH from our range,never to return.

KudosDave

Good morning,whatever one's views on Eddie's style,he certainly made me stop and think about the design and weight of these e-bikes....I am sure Eddie would have approved of our Kudos Arriba,it was pretty close to Eddie's ideals. Actually the UK and Germany went down a similar design route but Holland is still comfortable with heavy,low powered e-bikes....one of my original suppliers still supplies 5000 plus e-bikes to Holland every year,their design and weight has not changed in 5 years,the Dutch appear to love them.

For me the next threshold point is to get these bikes under 20 kilos but retaining a 10 Ah battery,it's really about summing small weight savings in lots of different places,interesting task.

KudosDave

Edited March 13, 201511 yr by Kudoscycles

Of those, I have never understood why more forum members don't ride Cytronex-powered bikes as I would bet that most readers here rarely, if ever, ride 20+ miles in a single trip, about the range limit if using power a lot on one of those.

Tom

I first became aware of ebikes when Otis road one on the Gadget Show (when I used to watch it) I didn't want to spend so much on a bike.

But It seemed to be just what I wanted, there is one long hill that was a struggle for me, it was ideal.

 

But on this forum, someone posted a review where he fell and broke the motor. Cytronex also recommended not to ride on cobbles and the like so I removed it from consideration and I looked further afield.

 

I also seemed to blow the budget out of the water.

 

When I took delivery of the Delite last year, I went out into the wind that prevailed, a heavy bike ploughed on, a lightweight bike would have been blown off course and into danger possibly.

 

 

This forum is brilliant.

Edited March 13, 201511 yr by Croxden

I first became aware of ebikes when Otis road one on the Gadget Show (when I used to watch it)

This forum is brilliant.

 

I remember that one. It was the Gocycle that got me interested.

 

 

Interestingly I've beaten Russ's best time up the other side of Holme Moss, so me and my bike are faster than Otis and the Cytronex.

Edited March 13, 201511 yr by Artstu

Low weight and low price are the only characteristics that are common to nearly all buyers. Most of the other characteristics that people want are unique to the individual, and they're mainly in conflict with the other two. You therefore can't make an ideal bike based on a list of ideal characteristics.

 

I can remember in the early 80s, when Honda had a go at making the ideal UK motorcycle. They launched a massive market research campaign to get a list of characteristics for it. They got the information from everybody they could: clubs, shows, magazines, the press, dealers, etc. The result of it was the Honda XBR500. It flopped, presumably because nobody wanted an ideal bike.

D8veh...I agree and it's the variety that makes comparisons interesting,there was a time when the small hatchback cars,designed by computer,based upon similar market research,all looked the same.

Just need a name for my new heavy bike,thinking about 'FAT BRUTE',what do you think but may have copyright problems,hehe(must get out of that habit)???

KudosDave

Many of us would like far more dedicated cycle/shared use paths.

We are unlikely to get them unless the number of cyclists in the UK increases many fold.

The electric bike offers a possible way of persuading people to get out of their cars and cycle.

For these people cost is the first and most important criterion.

Weight etc. come way down the list.

So, yes, if we are to make progress, the simple, heavy but cheap bike is the way forward for the mass market.

So, yes, if we are to make progress, the simple, heavy but cheap bike is the way forward for the mass market.

 

I'm bound to say I disagree entirely with that premise Mike. In the UK, we have been perpetuating that notion for as long as I have had any awareness of EAPCs.

 

There is an enormous amount of work to be done in terms of infrastructure before more people might be encouraged to venture out on bicycles or return to cycling. For many, I'm sure, the heavy contraptions we have been fed by our cottage ebike industry for years is a real turn-off. We need to have far more sleek, sexy EAPCs to attract more people to the idea.

 

Some people who cannot ride bikes around their own area because it's too dangerous, strap their bikes to their vehicle and go somewhere else, safer and possibly more appealing, in order to enjoy a bike ride. Those heavyweight machines, impossible for many to attach safely to their cars, offer no attraction but an unpowered,12Kg, mock mountain bike looks the part on the back of or the roof of their car....and impresses the neighbours.

 

In short, I don't see the UK EAPC market expanding dramatically all the time we have the heavy battle cruisers as the mainstay of the introductory or budget end of the market. Think of all those people who don't have a garden, a shed, or any safe place to put a bike. Flat dwellers might be able to manhandle a very lightweight bike up stairs, even into a lift, but a 27-30 Kg bike is a different proposition.

 

If the likes of Kudos or Whoosh were to produce a machine of 14-17 Kgs all-up, with the looks and a decent range, advertised heavily, that could make inroads and overcome the difficulties for those who find EAPCs, as we have them today, simply too cumbersome.

 

Tom

Mike.....you state that low price is most people's criterion.....that is a change over the last few years,maybe a sign of austerity times. But I do think that the bike still needs to be a nice bike even if it is cheap.

Bikes like the Cyclamatic have always been very cheap and actually had a big following on this forum but hardly gets a mention now.

One of the problems of heavy bikes is moving them around,in particular lifting them into a vehicle or onto a rear rack. A lot of customers who buy e-bikes are of more mature years,they do struggle to lift these heavy bikes.

A 20kg bike with a BPM motor,15 Ah battery,decent gears and brakes costing about £500 is probably the holy grail,not achievable at the moment but possible with high volume production but the market is just not big enough.

KudosDave

Bike weight is a relative thing. Bikes sold by the advertisers on here weigh about the same for the same specs, give or take a few hundred grs. Things like comfort saddle, NCX seat post, mudguards, chainguard, rack, propstand, pedals, lights, bell (or horn in the Big Bear), adjustable stem, throttle (yes, throttle) all add weight. Powerful motor and bigger batteries also add weight. When you replace the 2200mAH with 2900mA cells, you save about 500grs. Some of the new woosh bikes come with 3300mAH or 3400mAH NCR cells to save another 500grs.

woosh have one light machine in their workshop since last summer, weighing about 15kgs all in. If you come to Southend, they may let you have a go on it. Rigid front fork but with Magura hydraulic brakes, no throttle though. My recipe for a cheap lightweight machine: get a nice donor bike and add the new Woosh CD kit.

Edited March 13, 201511 yr by trex

flecc will soon have an opinion,no doubt.

 

Soon no, it took long into the second page of the thread . That wasn't deliberate, I've only just looked in.

 

And I don't have a strong opinion about EddieO's bike choices.

 

The one opinion I'll offer is that, like cwah, EddieO was one of this forum's great characters who has been widely missed.

.

Eddieo was quite vociferous about the BH range, based on the near-budget range quality of the components for the price being asked. I think he was right about that. Equally, he and the other chap who sometimes supported his views and whose name now escapes me, were highly critical of the Storck Raddar

 

The other chap was Indalo, banned at the same time.

 

Here's a thread about that, a 7 page fun read for Friday the 13th.

.