http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk37/necromunger666/20150901_1512071.jpg

Thanks for the info, I guessed the UK might be able to veto any decision on "S" Pedelecs, come 2017.

 

I do hope commense prevails, as making "S" Pedelecs legal in the UK will give a major boost to cycle shops, and get folk like me commuting to work on a "S" Pedelec instead of using the car, as it would probably prove a faster way to get to work.

 

Just a case of waiting until 2017 to see what happens, before I order my Kalkhoff Integrale S11 !.

go buy 1 now no one will pull you over on it.

 

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Moustache-Dimanche-Speed-2015

 

will also sell you a dongle for 150 quid that does fook all and do not get it from 50 cycles as going down the tip

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk37/necromunger666/spitzing-r-pedelec-WorldCup-blau-1024x599.jpg

go buy 1 now no one will pull you over on it.

 

Just to add some balance to this very very flipant attitude.

 

Whilst, yes chances are you won't get pulled over. However you will be riding what's legally classed as a motorbike on the public roads, so should you be involved in any accident, you'll be caught riding an illegal vehicle with no tax, insurance or MOT. So the consequences are potentially very severe, points on license and even more worrying is the liability issues. Please check it out before you listen to some on here, who just say "you won't be caught", being caught it really the least of the potential problems.

 

Its also worth you actually trying your commute on a road legal eBike. Its all the accelerating from 0 - 15mph where you save the time, and you'll get this with a legal eBike. If you're commuting in a city like Manchester (I've done it for years) even the car traffic doesn't move at 30! You'll be loads faster by legal eBike than car, with out the need to risk your house by riding an illegal one.

get it from ebike shop then as can do warranty with there dongles

 

no other uk dealer can? can you ktm bikes fit dongles and honer bosch warranty?

get it from ebike shop then as can do warranty with there dongles

 

no other uk dealer can? can you ktm bikes fit dongles and honer bosch warranty?

 

I see you've totally ignored all the points about liability risk and the important issues about riding illegal vehicles on the road and and now just focusing on warranty.

 

We don't sell to the public.... we're not a shop.

 

I'm not sure how good your understanding of the warranty system is, but with Bosch for instance.

 

Customer buys bike from dealer... if there is a failure with Bosch drive, dealer contacts Bosch to sort it out. You'll notice that at no point in this statement do I mention the brand, because the brand of bike isn't relevant. At no point is the brand of bike involved in a Bosch warranty.

 

Its between the customer and the shop they bought it from and then Bosch sort it.

 

So, what eBike shop are doing is saying they will honour the warranty, which they can of course say, because your warranty is with them, and theirs is with Bosch. However Bosch say they won't support any bike thats been dongled. So I suspect what will happen is that if / when a Bosch drive fails on a bike that has been bought from eBike shop he'll pay to fix it himself, rather than go back to Bosch... or hope they don't notice the bike its from has been dongled. Any dealer can do this. Its only eBike shop who make such a song and dance about selling bikes that aren't CE certified, and aren't legally able to be used in the UK.

 

Its for this reason we don't supply that store, we don't want KTMs sold in this manner as its highly irresponsible selling, and doesn't make clear to the customer what risks using the products being sold make customers liable for. Its a short term, dangerous strategy that most eBike businesses in the UK don't approve of, and don't want to risk their customers and their business for.. as its just making a fast buck out of an generally uneducated customer base.

Yep, I will be wanting to keep legal, so if in 2017 "S" Pedelec does not become legal in UK like they are in Germany, I will either stick with my Rohloff equipped bike, or add a UK legal Pedelec to the stable.

 

My intention is to buy a Kalkhoff Integrale S11 ("S" Pedelec) if they become legal or Kalkhoff Integrale 8 Ltd if they don't.

 

Brother has lived in Germany for the last 25 years, so that's were I will be going to buy one as long

as the € stays weak against the £, looked at prices and I can save at least £500 compared to

buying in the UK.

Edited September 2, 201510 yr by Rohloffboy

I agree with KTM Col that the S power may not make that much difference to the time a commute takes in Manchester.

 

Acceleration from the many stops is an important factor, and a legal ebike will give you that.

 

For not much more than the price of your hub, you could get a fully legal Bosch bike.

 

This one has the performance - but still legal - motor, which will accelerate slightly faster than a standard one.

 

http://www.mhw-bike.com/ghost-teru-4-white-cyan-green-black-2015-2812

Thank's for the link RobF nice bike that and I definitely want to go for the Bosch Crank Drive, I the the fact that it uses isis fitting.

 

Would not get a bike with Derailure, a bit to last century for me, got the Rohloff Hub new back in 2004 £450 then, and it runs sweeter now than it has ever done.

 

My scruf bike has a SRAM Spectro P7 Hub, which is fine and has a Hub brake, got that on CTW scheme about 15 years back and is still going strong as well.

 

I don't need suspension forks, but do need rear rack.

 

All work in progress and I have got until 2017 to find the right bike for me.

I the the fact that it uses isis fitting.

 

I think you are one of the few who does.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have two Bosch bikes.

 

No problems with Isis so far.

 

As a general point, Isis is a small diameter bearing for a bottom bracket.

 

This means it has to work harder, leading to fears over longevity.

 

It's never really caught on.

 

At least it's a standard bike component, so presumably can be replaced even if it's buried inside a motor.

 

My mate Chris the bike mechanic is a fan of Hollowtech for ordinary alloy framed mountain bikes.

 

He's seen plenty of problems with BB30 press fit on road bikes.

 

His latest build for himself - a steel frame mountain bike - will have an old-fashioned square taper

 

Reliable, reasonably long lasting, and cheap as chips to replace.

At least it's a standard bike component, so presumably can be replaced even if it's buried inside a motor.

.

That would be nice, but it's only the spline that's ISIS. The spindle is a special Bosch part. If you damage it, you'd need a new motor. The bearings can be replaced if you're a good mechanic and if you can get them. One of them is non-standard. You won't be able to get it from Bosch as a spare part.

Yep, I guessed that it was just the Spline that was isis, on both my pedal bikes I have isis BB, bought when the bearing maker SKF was doing them, at the time they were the best on the market, with radical bearing design an 10 year warranty!

 

Needles to say in over 15 years never had an issue with my SKF BB's they were built to last unlike there modern day counter parts FSA and Strong etc.

 

Again Square Taper is a bit last century, I know Yamaha use it on there Crank Drive motors, far better to use isis, it's proven and no patent to worry about for the manufacturer.

Its a short term, dangerous strategy that most eBike businesses in the UK don't approve of, and don't want to risk their customers and their business for.. as its just making a fast buck out of an generally uneducated customer base.

 

Being blunt, I'm pretty fecked off with the daily mention that dongles get scattered throughout seemingly every thread on here (Soundwave)

 

I'm fecked off, because dongles are hitting a nail firmly into the coffin of my hobby.

 

You might not realise this Soundwave, but amongst others you are doing the off road side of e-bike use no favours at all.

 

Last year I had a very in-depth conversation with Wiggle events over the use of e-mtb's. The end result was that the organisers were tolerating them, but anyone found to be using a dongle, would be dealt with appropriately, and the use of e-mtb's would be questioned.

I've only completed two Wiggle events this year, and have kept away from drawing any attention to the bike and myself.

 

At the Evans Ride It event a couple of weeks ago, when I stopped at the food stop, one of the event organisers was there. I spent a pleasant 15mins or so talking to him, then he asked what bike that I was riding. I went on to explain that it was an e-mtb, and the tone of conversation instantly changed. He wanted to see the bike, and I was asked loads of questions, all of which very polite, wrote my entrance number down, then went on to explain that within the previous week, they as a company, had been having telephone conversations about the very subject of e-mtb's and more specifically, e-mtb's fitted with dongles. He was telling me that they don't have the resources to police these events to stop people using dongles, so there may be a blanket ban on their use. All this started because a pedal mtb rider had raised concerns. I guess that my rider number was taken in order to check my ride time.

 

I was also talking a day or so ago to someone who had made a recent visit to a trail centre in Wales recently, and knowing my interest in e-mtb's, the lad got talking to someone on the uplift about e-mtb's. Again because of dongles, and not being able to police the use of them, e-mtb's are probably going to be facing bleak future.

I've said it often enough that dongles aren't required for off road use, and that is with me having sole permitted access to the best part of 1,000 acres of land to ride on, with no public rights of way. Thanks to those that are using e-mtb's fitted with dongles in places that utilise public access, e-mtb users as whole could be facing a bleak future where less and less places will be openly available to ride.

If e-mtb's are going to stopped from riding at organised events and bike parks, for all I know it could just be a matter of time before they get banned from other places as well. I know that I'm not happy about the thought of that one.

Edited September 2, 201510 yr by EddiePJ

ed i dont plan on entering in any event on my bike as im just not interested in any of that tbh.

 

if i was and for off road comp id have got a different bike anyway and would not even need a dongle on it and blast round at 60mph

 

 

i could also get a 750w mid drive kit and use that with no dongle and be faster than my bike anyway for a lot less than my bike.

 

i mean law wise how many ppl on here has a bike with more than a 250w motor lots id say from the posts i have seen since i joined and far faster than my bike will ever go and have throttles too.

 

if we went by the law regarding posting on here and what is and is not legal over half the forum would be banned.

Being blunt, I'm pretty fecked off with the daily mention that dongles get scattered throughout seemingly every thread on here

 

I sympathise and agree Eddie. But the problem is that this sub forum is titled for Off Road, S-pedelecs and Overseas. The inclusion of S-pedelecs clears any mention of ebikes or gadgets that achieve assist speeds up to 45 kph as being permitted within the forum.

 

Of course only members resident in countries where the S class e-bikes are permitted should post on that subject since they have no practical legal use in the UK, but I can't see the speed merchants accepting that distinction.

.

ed i dont plan on entering in any event on my bike as im just not interested in any of that tbh.

 

if i was and for off road comp id have got a different bike anyway and would not even need a dongle on it and blast round at 60mph

 

 

i could also get a 750w mid drive kit and use that with no dongle and be faster than my bike anyway for a lot less than my bike.

 

i mean law wise how many ppl on here has a bike with more than a 250w motor lots id say from the posts i have seen since i joined and far faster than my bike will ever go and have throttles too.

 

if we went by the law regarding posting on here and what is and is not legal over half the forum would be banned.

 

I think his point went past you at twelve o clock high.

I think his point went past you at twelve o clock high.

 

i know what he means just this site has adds on it that will also sell dongles with there bikes so why not ban them from advertising here?

 

and ban martin from ebike shop from posting as well.

 

not going to happen is it

Hi RobF.

Just had another look at MHWBIKE from your link, what a range, of Ebikes they have, I have seen a nice 250watt (25kmph) Pedelec on there, BOSCH Crank Drive using the Nuvinci Hub.

 

Amazing that MHWBIKE can offer free shipping to the UK from Germany on bikes, will be looking in more detail at there offers.

http://www.mhw-bike.com/haibike-sduro-fullnine-rc-29-400wh-36v-schwarz-cyan-weiss-matt-2015-3544

 

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Haibike-sDuro-Fullnine-RC-2015

 

thats 700 quid cheaper than uk and free postage is unbeatable as 700 quid will nearly buy a new batt and motor.

http://www.mhw-bike.com/haibike-sduro-fullnine-rc-29-400wh-36v-schwarz-cyan-weiss-matt-2015-3544

 

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Haibike-sDuro-Fullnine-RC-2015

 

thats 700 quid cheaper than uk and free postage is unbeatable as 700 quid will nearly buy a new batt and motor.

 

I know they're a German brand and MHW is based in Germany too, but it's a shame that there is such a mark-up on Haibikes when bought in the UK. I'm still trying to convince the other arf that I need one for next Summer

 

Very tempting to buy from MHW at those prices though, but I wonder what the dealio is if the bike develops a fault?

thats 700 quid cheaper than uk and free postage is unbeatable as 700 quid will nearly buy a new batt and motor.

 

My whole bike cost that. But you have a strong pound and we a weak euro. You can make a very good pedelec which competes with big name brands performance wise for much less using a kit.

 

My kit was marked as "road legal" and not road legal because there is no way of sticking the required EN sticker on a bike that the kit supplier has not seen. That does not mean that with a bit of TLC it wouldn't pass scrutiny as a road legal EPAC.

 

The whole idea of legal kits for me is that you take a bike that you like or have on hand and add electric assitance to it within the framework of the law and (hopefully) within your budget. I would love to be able to buy a pedelec from a shop but that is two times what I had available for purchase. Yes I am talking about a second hand pedelec...

 

Dongles and whatever are just more marketing gimicks for people who do not have money problems. I couldn't care less about them. If you want to go faster than the law permits you don't need to spend very much money.

put it in the box and send it back same as rest of eu.

 

just might take a bit longer to sort out depending whats wrong with it

 

like whats a uk dealer going to do anyway send it back to Germany lol

 

like whats a uk dealer going to do anyway send it back to Germany lol

 

You may have a very valid point there soundwave

that is the point why even bother to send it to a uk dealer when they just take of faulty or broken part and send it back to Germany anyway.

 

just be faster if you done it ur self

 

.