The 500W BBS02 will trounce the woosh BPM 350W kit and the xiongda XD on the flat and on any hill. The power of the BBS02 500W 36V 25A is on the par with a BPM CST 500W running with a 30A 12 FET controller.

I've simply read up on 250w motors and when I've tried 250w systems there simply isnt enough pulling power to enhance my ride. As for being heavy I'm in my 20s not fat, 6'5" and 205lbs if you that funny go ahead and laugh.

 

Ok, so you're not really heavy at all for a grown man,are you?

 

Not enough power to enhance your ride? What do you expect from an electrically-assisted pedal cycle? If you are in your 20s, looking for speed thrills, there's opportunity for that with lightweight road bikes. Alternatively, there are lots of high-powered motor cycles which I'm certain would enhance your ride to frightening levels, if that's your thing.

 

Although everyone is entitled to ride EAPCs if of legally-compliant age, I'd be embarrassed to be seen aboard one, were I in my 20s. They are better suited to those of us less able than we once were. 25 kph is the legal limit for EAPC motor assistance in the UK anyway so you need to go illegal if your 'ride enhancement' requires more than that.

 

I'm curious as to why you described your weight in pounds but perhaps you're American. Most Forum readers here would describe your weight as 14 stone 9 pounds or a shade over 14 and a half stone, a weight many of us used to be but will never be again.

 

I certainly hope you find something to suit your needs but I feel you owe John Cade an apology. You came and asked for some help or guidance. Everyone who responded to your request made an effort so there was no need to be scornful towards anyone.

 

Tom

That kit simply isnt suitable for my needs and after looking into mid drive kits I've found those to be more suitable as they mean less rotational weight, make servicing my bike a lot easier. The controller is also integrated into the mid drive motor casing so the wiring there is less wiring to manage.

 

 

I've simply read up on 250w motors and when I've tried 250w systems there simply isnt enough pulling power to enhance my ride. As for being heavy I'm in my 20s not fat, 6'5" and 205lbs if you that funny go ahead and laugh.

Using an LED display instead of an LCD simply means I have to add extra electronics just to monitor speed, distance and also its handy to have the time displayed.

 

 

I havent called out anyone but johncade who seems to be simply trolling the thread only here to mock not to contribute. So far I've found only trex and nealh to be contributing to the thread rather get upset to hear bad things about Xiongda. Everyone else discussion is good but I still think Xiongda is ratchet.

 

 

d8veh you soud like youve had some experience the Xiongda and though that kit doesnt suit me and my bike it seems to have been okay for you.

Have you had chance to compare the 350w Xiongda to a 36v 500w BBS02? On paper 350w should be inferior to any 500w system when moving at speed.

You will have to get out and try kits - reading up on 250w kits may give you the impression it wouldnt enhance your ride but which have you tried? Ive been on various crank drives (kalkhoff, TCM, BBS02) and hub drives (BPM, 500w, 250w - but not xiongda) - unless you live in basecamp everest a geared 250W hub kit in a 26 wheel will be ample.

Notice the 4 tails coming out of that neat controller?

You can't cut the moulded cables coming out of your neat controller.

They are for the motor, battery, the trunk cable and the pedelec sensor.

You need matching moulded cables on your motor, battery, trunk cable and pedelec sensor. and you can't cut any of the moulded cable if they are too long or too short..

 

You could, theoretically at least, learn to solder. The problem is that the control wires are likely to be very thin.

 

On my previous motor, QSWXK, I just bundled up the excess cable and put it all in a small handlebar bag; I considered getting the neater German controller and wiring kit but, in the normal German style of excessive legality, it left out the throttle and the pedelec function was limp.

 

On my present Bafang BBS01 the much neater cable set still is badly planned and has various excesses, which, even though I can solder, I'm not planning to cut out for fear of finding overly fine wires. So I'm just folding the excess wires back on themselves and will cover up the mess with spiral cable tidy painted bike color.

 

Better to have slightly long cables ex-factory than cables that are too short! In 2002 I bought a Trek Smover (a fully automatic bike with electronic shifting and electronic active suspension, see http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html ) which had to be reengineered to purpose as its designer made it overly sporting, including short cables. If Trek Benelux hadn't halped me enthusiastically by sending me longer cables, my money would have been down the tubes. Bafang has no history of service at the elevated level of Trek's customer relations, so from Bafang better a long cable than a short one!

d8veh you soud like youve had some experience the Xiongda and though that kit doesnt suit me and my bike it seems to have been okay for you.

Have you had chance to compare the 350w Xiongda to a 36v 500w BBS02? On paper 350w should be inferior to any 500w system when moving at speed.

 

I think you've over-simplified it. There's a lot more to a riding experience than power. If you can't pedal very hard, you need a motor with good torque. Only if you need to sustain a high speed do you need high power. I have to agree with Tom that 14 1/2 stone is not that heavy, so a larger "250w" hub-motor like the Bafang BPM, Ezee or other such motors should be able to get you up very steep hills without to much effort from you.

 

Hub-motors give a much more relaxed riding experience because you don't have to worry about gears so much. It's nothing to do with being lazy, more that crank-drives are a bit frenetic.

 

Don't get too hung up on power ratings. 250w, 350w, 500w, etc doesn't mean much because hub-motor winding speed can make a big difference to how powerful it feels and, obviously, how fast it goes.

 

To answer your question, I have compared those two motors. It's the power that you run them at rather than the power rating that decides how powerful they are and whether they are running in their efficient zone. In theory, the crank-drive should always be more efficient, but my tests have shown that that advantage doesn't get realised in practice, however, having the wrong speed winding on a hub-motor can destroy your efficiency, so you have to choose carefully.

 

There's a very nice kit from BMSBattery that uses the 48v 09 bottle battery with the included 20A sinewave controller. The wiring is therefore as simple as a BBS01. Add a Q128, BPM or Bafang CST and you'd have a system that I guarantee would satisfy your power and torque requirements, whilst giving you a much more comfortable rode than any crank-drive.

Ok old I dont ride road bikes as I like high end mountain bikes. I already outpace most people on roadbikes in my area and I dont need to lose weight as I'm not fat.

Not american I weigh myself in pounds as I prefer pounds to kilos. Stones and lbs requires addition when comparing weight so I prefer to work in purely lbs.

Also old you have done nothing but try to mock me and question my need for a 500w system which is simply my requirement.

 

selrahc1992 I havent had chance to have a proper look at the kalkhoff yet but it looks interesting if I can get it as a kit. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't TCM a rebadged bafang/8fun.

 

There are a few different kits listed here some better than others lol

https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kits/

 

There's a very nice kit from BMSBattery that uses the 48v 09 bottle battery with the included 20A sinewave controller. The wiring is therefore as simple as a BBS01. Add a Q128, BPM or Bafang CST and you'd have a system that I guarantee would satisfy your power and torque requirements, whilst giving you a much more comfortable rode than any crank-drive.

 

Any links to the particular kit your mentioned on BMSBattery?

• I'd really prefer a crank drive system so I could keep my nice 9 speed derailleur and cassette.
  

• A front drive kit would be okay but I'd really like to keep that motor away from my expensive rockshox
  

• I already have some good 36v batteries so I'm trying to find a 36v system rather than 48v system. A 48V system would be a massive pain as Id need to modify one of my existing packs to work at 12V so that could go in series with the 36V packs. If the kit was good enough though it would obviously be worth modifying.
  

Edited April 29, 201510 yr by ps4customgamer

. ..

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't TCM a rebadged bafang/8fun.

 

 

No. It isn't. The TCM is made in Tianjin, Bafang in Souzhou.

The TCM does not have built-in controller like the BBS01/02.

 

You could, theoretically at least, learn to solder. The problem is that the control wires are likely to be very thin.

 

I can solder and crimp too. The wires inside those molded cables are usually 22 AWG, the motor cable has 14 AWG teflon coated wires.

Edited April 29, 201510 yr by trex

I can solder and crimp too. The wires inside those molded cables are usually 22 AWG, the motor cable has 14 AWG teflon coated wires.

lol 22awg seriously?

My 14awg is rated for 200oC so 22awg seems excessive especially since xt60 connectors are made for this size and that connector should handle about 60 amps.

lol 22awg seriously?

My 14awg is rated for 200oC so 22awg seems excessive especially since xt60 connectors are made for this size and that connector should handle about 60 amps.

 

I think you've got your AWG crossed.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

 

22 AWG wires have 0.644mm diameter, 0.326mm2 cross section area, usually good for signalling cables, not for power.

14 AWG wires have 1.628mm diameter, 2.08mm2 cross section area, good for up to 350W 36V, 500W 48V motors.

Yes wires crossed there lol.

 

Still looking for a better price on BBS02 best so far is elifebike.com for £288.56 after shipping with DHL

http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2014-8S-T0WE.955GT

 

Id still like to get it cheaper as I dont want to get caught out with import charges. I may wait a little longer and wait for one to show up on ebay.

Edited April 29, 201510 yr by ps4customgamer

The Panda Xiongda kits are marked up by about £75, where as they seem to be about £200 direct from China but as a business they have to put a bit of profit on top.

 

I'm afraid that's not correct - the markup is very modest - about £5 more than you'd pay if you'd import and do a wheelbuild yourself, which seems to me a great price for a guarantee and support. Xiongda's kit is £160 + £40 (20% + 6% VAT and duty) + £10 customs handling fee, i.e. £210, whereas Panda do a proper wheelbuild which would cost £40. Oh and a rim which will cost £20. So £270 would be the price for getting something from Xiongda sent to the UK and laced up. Then Panda have to send the whole shebang via UK post, and it's all in for £275.

 

£5 for a guarantee and support, not bad.

You'd probably have to rebuild the Panda wheel anyway because the rim off-set will be different for different bikes, gears and brakes. I'd be interested to know what spokes they've used because you need the stretchiness of 14g spoke to deal with the difference in tension between the two sides due to the off-set. That's why I don't recommend this kit for everyone. Installation is a bit more involved than simply bolting the wheel in.

 

Having sais all that, the results are worth the extra installation effort.

Been trying to get a better price on the bafang kit today on Aliexpress.

 

Every supplier I tried was more expensive. One beat that price but only by $5, wanted me to buy a bulk amount lol.

 

Just been comparing a few kits and realised I hadnt even checked if the bafang LCD is backlit. It turns out the c961 display isnt however the c963 and c965 are. Out of the three the c963 is apparently the smallest, stealthiest and best looking display unit of the 3

https://electricfatbike.wordpress.com/bbs02-displays/

Edited April 30, 201510 yr by ps4customgamer

961 & 963 are about the same size except the 963 viewable screen is smaller

because it has the control buttons mounted to the left of the LCD where as the 961 has a separate module for the buttons. 961 is backlit I have one and you just long press + for 2or 3 secs for it to come on, its just not auto like the other two.

You'd probably have to rebuild the Panda wheel anyway because the rim off-set will be different for different bikes, gears and brakes. I'd be interested to know what spokes they've used because you need the stretchiness of 14g spoke to deal with the difference in tension between the two sides due to the off-set. That's why I don't recommend this kit for everyone. Installation is a bit more involved than simply bolting the wheel in.

 

Having sais all that, the results are worth the extra installation effort.

 

In fairness, that 'probably'about needing a wheel rebuild I think overstates the matter by some way. I do indeed hear (like you say) that some motors have odd offsets-from-centre, so that any wheelbuilder may find that they've mis-dished the wheel for the bike. However, firstly you just don't know until you put it on the bike. Secondly one way or another you surely wouldn't pay any more than £275. I don't know what Panda's arrangements would be to ensure this, but fitness for purpose is surely included in the price.

 

So I think my price breakdown above must still be correct. It seems cracking value, especially for something with proper warranty, UK consumer protection, and hopefully ongoing support.

Edited May 4, 201510 yr by jonathan75

Dear all,

 

Firstly - please note that our price on the double speed Xiongda kit, bought directly from our website is £250 for either the 36V or 48V version, this includes next day delivery. We also have double speed hub motor kits (not built into a wheel) for £225.

 

The wheel is built with a Xitang double walled rim and 13g spokes. The double speed hub motor is the v-brake style motor (not compatible with disc brakes) and the dropout widths on these are the standard 100mm and 135mm (as advertised on our technical details section of the product page). This is unlike the disc brake style hub motor which d8veh is talking about which have wider dropout widths and are not suitable for those looking for a straightforward conversion.

The sacrifice of the disc brake functionality we think is necessary to make this kit accessible and easy to fit. Rebuilding the wheel is rarely necessary and in most cases you just need to slot it into your dropouts like a normal hub motor kit.

 

We have spare controllers and LCD displays in stock for after sale service, and we offer next day delivery on our items. Because Xiongda don't yet have an instruction manual available, we also now have a YouTube video demonstrating how to fit the kit - no single step requires any specialist technical know-how. Even removing the pedal crank is A) actually easy with the right tool (shown in the video) and B) can be avoided if you purchase a throttle and run without PAS.

 

Edited May 4, 201510 yr by Swytch Bike

I think the Xiongda looks crap the wiring is messy and the connectors aren't even semi water proof. Some of the main connectors use old fashioned bullet connectors which always fail. Even in your product video you used a large frame bag to store the esc which is far too big for it and ruins the look of the bike.

 

Don't buy Xiongda guys!

I think the Xiongda looks crap the wiring is messy and the connectors aren't even semi water proof. Some of the main connectors use old fashioned bullet connectors which always fail. Even in your product video you used a large frame bag to store the esc which is far too big for it and ruins the look of the bike.

 

Don't buy Xiongda guys!

 

The Xiongda kit looks fine, and it has some great functionality with the 2 gearing modes and LCD screen. What the kit does is more important I think than exactly how it looks.

Bullet connectors are also fine - just press them in tightly and make sure they are contained in something waterproof (not outside on the bike).

 

If you're worried about how tidy the wires are and whether the controller bag "ruins" the look of the bike then you might consider going for full eBike, with the controller hidden away in the design of the bike and perhaps one with a battery that fits inside the frame...

Your selling the kit so I doubt you're thinking about anything but your bottom line, not interested in cyclists getting the best conversion kit.

 

I wouldnt recommend the Xiongda to friends much better to save a little more and buy a quality kit like a bafang. If youre really pushed much better to go for a lower price kit from vpower_ebike or germanladen.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311333640105

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181237508447

 

Bullet connectors are awful its mainly the car industry and RC community that use bullet connectors and they have moved beyond the style of connectors used in the Xiongda years ago. The style of connectors used in the Xiongda are usually cut off and soldered as they tend to fall apart.

 

Nobody wants a factory ebike unless theyre loaded! Those are usually made as town runabouts and for the over 50s who usually only spend £200 on their bikes.

Of course, there is a range of kits you can go for. The Bafang kits are great, and german laden / vpower_ebike are OK if you want to go low end.

 

We sell lower end kits too... but we recommend Xiongda when someone has a bit more money and wants something a bit fancier, or needs a kit specifically for hill-climbing.

 

We're not all about the bottom line you know - bringing the Xiongda kits to the UK was largely as a result of the interest that we saw on these forums that wasn't being fulfilled by a local seller with after sales service...

Your selling the kit so I doubt you're thinking about anything but your bottom line, not interested in cyclists getting the best conversion kit.

 

I wouldnt recommend the Xiongda to friends much better to save a little more and buy a quality kit like a bafang. If youre really pushed much better to go for a lower price kit from vpower_ebike or germanladen.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311333640105

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181237508447

 

Bullet connectors are awful its mainly the car industry and RC community that use bullet connectors and they have moved beyond the style of connectors used in the Xiongda years ago. The style of connectors used in the Xiongda are usually cut off and soldered as they tend to fall apart.

 

Nobody wants a factory ebike unless theyre loaded! Those are usually made as town runabouts and for the over 50s who usually only spend £200 on their bikes.

 

Where to start.....

 

1. Until about 5 minutes ago you were unaware how AWG worked. Now you are giving advice about electrical connectors?

 

2. The motors you have linked to seem to be direct drive hub motors. These are not comparable with geared hub motors. They are not 'better'.

 

3. While I have never used Panda, they seem like reasonable guys. You on the other hand continue to be rude to someone who is being very patient.

Panda your kits are low end which seems fine for some of the market and the wiring is messy which is one of the reasons I have called the Xiongdas crap earlier in the thread. Half the discussion on this thread has been me saying why I think the Xiongda kits are crap yet your still hard faced enough to advertise here.

 

Mike Higgins

1. Not 5 minutes ago and I only got the wire sizes wrong as the AWG system numbers wire size to the opposite of their size. Also Im not american and havent spent time memorizing wire sizes. Just because I'm new to pedelecs.co.uk doesnt mean I'm not knowledgable about electrical connectors or that I'm not use to dealing with electrical wiring.
    
   
2. The kits I recommended are better priced than the Xiongda kits and more for a cyclist who doesnt want to spend all their money on a system that will most likely fail due to bad wiring. The average user of a pedelec is over 50 and that age group usually spends £200 so the kits I recommended are therefore better.
    
   
3. Panda are advertising on a thread where about half the 'discussion' has been why their Xiongda kits are awful. For all I know your a panda employee posting under a different name.
   

Edited May 5, 201510 yr by ps4customgamer

A lot of other pedelecers have been liking the Xiongda kit on this thread... we only replied because of the large number of people referencing us and talking about our prices. It would have been rude not to join in the discussion - I wouldn't call it "hard faced advertising".

.....Just because I'm new to pedelecs.co.uk doesnt mean I'm not knowledgable about electrical connectors or that I'm not use to dealing with electrical wiring.

 

True, but not knowing how AWG works, as well as other things you have said makes it obvious that you have very little experience in real world electrical or electronic engineering, and as such your repeated assertions of equipment being 'crap', 'bad' and 'awful' are invalidated.

I would and have just called it "hard faced advertising".

You didnt join the discussion you posted an advertisement with a product video not a reply to earlier posts which advertised the Xiongda kits for you.

 

As you've probably read the Xiongda kit is not suitable for my bike, the bafang kit is.The best price is here.

What I didnt mention is that I can fit this kit to my full suspension 26" full suspension mountain bike, my 26" speed hardtail speed bike as well as my hardtail 29er to do this with a bafang hub motor kit would be incredibly hard and would require 2 different sizes of wheels with hub motors. My bikes are also 9 speeds and it seems to be unstated what the Xiongda wheels will fit onto.

 

Mike Higgins I have plenty of real world experience in electronics and should never have to use long winded terms like electronic engineering on a thread talking about bolt on electrical conversion kits.

The AWG system is simply a wire gauge numbering system and due to the relation between the order of numbering and size its very easy to get confused about sizes of wires like I did when I got my wires crossed.