I've driven a Leaf a couple of times and thought it drove rather nicely. Full torque from standing is a killer feature even when the equivalent horsepower is not particularly impressive.

 

I'm not impressed with Renault though (currently drive a megane cc), most parts of the car, particularly the electrics, have had problems. It's spent ten days at the dealer without any of the problems being identified or fixed...

 

Personally I'm waiting for the price of second hand Teslas to come down (I may be waiting a while!)

Unrelated to the electric car topic, I own a Renault Grand Espace IV diesel, it's one of the last sold in the UK.

I bought it through necessity rather than choice because of my business, when you take the rear seats out it's a comfortable van, tow vehicle in other words an MPV.

I agree Renaults are not the most reliable and can be a bit quirky, but this one seems good and I have found a very good Renault specialist, they are not main dealers, prices are reasonable and they really do know everything about Renault cars, engines, electronics the lot. They are based in Luton which is just over 20 miles from me, but I am happy to go there because I know that I am not going to be ripped off.

Prior to this Espace which I have owned for almost a year I had a 10 year old IV diesel which I picked up for not a lot of money, there were several issues with this one, engine management light, exhaust bypass valve not working which occasionally put it into limp mode, not fun when you are in the fast lane of a busy motorway.

Any way these guys fixed it.

If you are within traveling distance of Luton and have Renault problems give Armstrongs a try.

That's a very good point, how good any car company is is highly dependent on how good your local dealers or independents are.

 

Unfortunately I'm in Manchester! I normally go to one of two independent garages, one near work, the other near home.

 

My main problem with Renault though is I've had two issues where the OBD was reporting error codes for which no public description was available, and in each case the Renault dealers (different one in each case) declined to tell the independent what it meant, and instead simply said I had to take the car to the main dealer. First time I was in the end pleased, as the dealer eventually told me there was a recall due to water ingress in the electronics, so Renault paid a weirdly specific 76% of the repair costs! The second time the car went to the dealer and sat there for ten days, without anyone telling me what was going on.

 

So as of today the engine randomly cuts out whilst driving, not stalling but stopping injection. All I know is it's an undeterminable ECU problem that seemingly no one can fix!

 

Renault rant over! (sorry)

The French are just as good as the Italians when it comes to electronics. The make you mostly see on flat bed trucks here is Peugeot, I had friends who had Peugeots and well you just stopped asking where their car was (answer: at the garage).

 

Now when it comes to electronics the Germans... oh haven't wee been there already?

One year old Zoe with less than 1400 miles on the clock £6985.

 

Phenomenal depreciation!

 

This is the e-car killer, second hand there's the possibility of a new battery needed, costing several thousand pounds.

 

Realistically a four year old e-car is worth absolutely nothing, a problem the trade has no answer to. Any e-car bought outright has to be a seven or more year purchase wearing the battery right out to be really worthwhile.

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Edited December 11, 201510 yr by flecc

Hi John,

 

I'm a bit old school and always like to pay for stuff upfront in full unless it's 0% interest and I can't get discount by paying cash.

I guess that's partly due to my Scottish background, if I can't afford to pay for something then I go without.

 

Where can you get a new Zoe for 9K and what is the catch?

 

From the quotes I have had so far, the Leaf is a better deal and probably what I would choose if buying one for myself

 

In all honesty this is basically a bit of research into electric cars which will in all probability not lead to buying a car to replace my wife's current one, it would take lot of persuasion to get her to part with her beloved Daihatsu.

 

I expect the £9K will be the cost of the monthly payments over the 3 yr PCP contract and then there will be a big balloon payment at the end if you want to keep the car..... Or you can just hand it back as if you're leasing it, but then you'll likely get extra charges for any dings & scrapes the car has suffered and of course your past monthly payments are now lost money.

You really have to look into PCP carefully to see if its right for you.

Personally i prefer to buy outright.... i always take a lot of time searching for the best deal and then haggling even further. But i have a lot of options with IC cars. Electric cars are of no interest to me the way the market is for them currently.

We have a Zoe,they are a fantastic car. They cannot have a towbar... Thre are loads of cheap deals. We are paying two thirds of the cost of fuel per month i was paying. Charging is about twenty two quid a month, includes breakdown cover, not tax, mot and insurance is the same as our w reg a-class.

 

We tried the zoe and the leaf, the leaf is a qualitu vehicle, it doesn't have the looks and has a different feel to the drive(personal pref). Ask away if you have any questions. I'm a bit of a petrol head, not sure if i would go back though, range is the normal issue, but you are likely to find you do far less miles than you think, longer journeys just need a bit of planning.

 

John

 

What warranty is given for the battery? I have read that some warrantys can be up to 8years or 100,000+ miles.

What warranty is given for the battery? I have read that some warrantys can be up to 8years or 100,000+ miles.

 

Renault-Nissan are effectively the one company and their e-cars are fundamentally the same. The Leaf battery warranty is five years, but with both the battery rental terms are a maximum of four years.

 

I read into this that they are confident about the battery range being adequate for four years but not for five.

.

When they give a battery warranty, what are they guaranteeing after 5 years, 60%, 80% ? and how is it measured?

When they give a battery warranty, what are they guaranteeing after 5 years, 60%, 80% ? and how is it measured?

 

It's 70% for the 5 years or 60,000 miles for the Nissan Leaf battery.

 

Considering the range in adverse circumstances they admit can be as little as 60 miles when new, that 70% represents just 42 miles. Some insist it can be even less.

 

So allowing for possible delays etc, at difficult times one couldn't embark on a return trip of more than about 15 miles each way. That's why I say a four year battery life is more realistic, and that's the limit they will rent the battery for, effectively agreeing with me.

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Edited December 11, 201510 yr by flecc

You can buy or lease the battery.. Leasing is the sensible route as it takes out the risk of issues. in relation to the pcp figures, £9k is the balloon payment with a charge of £30 per month for two years... Battery is £89 for 9000 miles a year extra miles are 8p per mile.

 

As already mentioned Renault Nissan share the tech, so they should be as reliable as each other... It was a reservation of mine as Renault, electrics and reliable rarely are seem together without a not!

 

We rook the plunge on the cost saving for us

..it is our only car, we use the bikes for other local travel. If after 2 years it doesn't work out we just hand it back.

 

John

... Battery is £89 for 9000 miles a year extra miles are 8p per mile.

 

The Nissan Leaf battery start point is a bit cheaper to rent, £70 for 7500 miles per annum or £77 for 9000 miles. Both those and the Zoe's £89 are per month for the lease term of course.

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My wife has a BMW i3, which she raves about. Best bit she thinks is the low speed acceleration, which gives it a lot of overtaking ability.

 

Battery is purchased with the car, but with an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty. Dont know what the used prices are like on the i3, but if you have an i8 I am told they change hands at over the list price.

 

I am looking to get a pedelec in the New Year, which might not be as quick as the i3.

My wife has a BMW i3,

 

Battery is purchased with the car, but with an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty.

 

if you have an i8 I am told they change hands at over the list price.

 

I hope that lasts, but I have my doubts. The Nissan Leaf uses a same technology slightly larger battery and that started out with a 10 year warranty indicated. But when the first ones hit the dealers that was reduced to 7 years and it's now just 5 years/60,000 miles after more experience. Of course the Leaf has been around a few years so they've had more time to learn the realities.

 

The i8 is a very different animal from the i3 of course, it's a hybrid part-time electric.

.

Unfortunately, the more I read about it going the electric car route seems to make little economic sense:(

The positive side is the green aspect:cool: but that alone is not enough to sway me:(

If Flecc ever decides to get one then I will look at it again.

If Flecc ever decides to get one then I will look at it again.

 

Trouble is I'm running out of time. It's a race between the improvements in e-car economics and the undertaker!

.

Trouble is I'm running out of time. It's a race between the improvements in e-car economics and the undertaker!

.

Evening Flecc

My Prius is coming up to eight years and I can't tell any difference in the performance of the battery from new.

 

 

It is being constantly charged & discharged in use, not directly comparable with a pure electric vehicle but is an indication of the potential.

 

 

Have a look at the latest "Fully Charged", it give some information that might help particularly on the second life the Leaf batteries can have, except not have gone back yet.

 

My Prius is coming up to eight years and I can't tell any difference in the performance of the battery from new.

 

It is being constantly charged & discharged in use, not directly comparable with a pure electric vehicle but is an indication of the potential.

 

Thanks Croxden, but as you say, being a hybrid it's not comparable. Also the battery technology is very different from tjhe Leaf's lithium since your car has Panasonic cell NiMh batteries, and Toyota have fully justified their 8 year life claim, as yours shows. I've had the same experience with e-bike batteries, my eZee NiMh outlasting by years the lithium ones.

 

I'm not very interested in the second life application for myself, though it might give spent car batteries some small value. They do spout some rubbish on these programmes though, car makers not making ic cars by 2020 is pure bunkum for example. I'm sure they'll still.be making them in 2050 and beyond, if only because it will be at least half a century before we have the electricity supply to charge e-cars for everyone.

 

Also I wish the pundits would stop speaking of hybrids as electric cars, they simply aren't in any way equal and the two should always be dealt with separately for many reasons.

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Edited December 11, 201510 yr by flecc

I forgot they were NiMh, I think old age is beginning to get to me.

I forgot they were NiMh, I think old age is beginning to get to me.

 

I think after 8 years of the battery performing trouble free you can be forgiven for forgetting what they were.

 

It's a pity they aren't up to the full e-car application, nothing really seems to be for one reason or another. The sodium salt batteries like those in the Smart and Think e-cars are probably the best, but only for daily use cars since they have to be kept permanently very hot, wasting loads of electricity for intermittent users.

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Trouble is I'm running out of time. It's a race between the improvements in e-car economics and the undertaker!

.

Don't know if there's an e-hearse as yet, but you might be lucky if you hang on long enough!

 

Jim

If you lease a battery.and then decide to sell the car,would it have to be sold without the batteries,what if the batteries were on a 4 year lease,and you buy the car off somebody in good faith, the lease has expired what happens then.

If you lease a battery.and then decide to sell the car,would it have to be sold without the batteries,what if the batteries were on a 4 year lease,and you buy the car off somebody in good faith, the lease has expired what happens then.

 

You'd probably have to sell on the lease remainder with the car with the agreement of the car maker. Either that or hand in the battery and pay the difference for the shorter period.

 

If buying an expired lease car, you'd need to either buy a new battery or sign up for a battery lease agreement.

.

Don't know if there's an e-hearse as yet, but you might be lucky if you hang on long enough!

 

Jim

 

That's a thought, an e-hearse would be an ideal e-car application since they don't need much range.

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