you should really take a more critical look at the way the EU creates the SM framework. It is based on capitalism, pure and simple. Sure, it will tax and fine the multinationals but the latter prosper while the small shops shut.

The old France was full of life, even in small villages, because people shopped locally. Ever since the EC, small shops close because they can't afford to comply and compete. Everyone now shops at centres commerciaux.

Supermarkets have killed small shops everywhere including non EU countries

 

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Therein lies the Paradox, just WHO is going to do such a thing?

 

we train world class scientists and engineers by the tens of thousands every year. It's a piece of cake to train plumbers and caterers.If employers have to pay, they'll know what skills they want to fund.

we train world class scientists and engineers by the tens of thousands every year. It's a piece of cake to train plumbers and caterers.If employers have to pay, they'll know what skills they want to fund.

Since that has always been the case, why didn't they before, and since the immigrants will still keep coming despite promises, why should they now?

 

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the problem with the EU is that it is based on the paradigm that capitalism is good and it favours the big guys.

 

How odd then that they hit such as Microsoft and Volkswagen with huge and mutiplying fines, while not bothering with the similarly offending activities of smaller companies.

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Supermarkets have killed small shops everywhere including non EU countries

 

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I remember the original EC marking. We were supposed to apply for certification on anything we produced. It's affordable for big companies, how can you pay for certifications if you only make and sell your cheeses at your village market?

Since that has always been the case, why didn't they before, and since the immigrants will still keep coming despite promises, why should they now?

 

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it's so much easier and certainly cheaper until now to recruit from the EU.

I remember the original EC marking. We were supposed to apply for certification on anything we produced. It's affordable for big companies, how can you pay for certifications if you only make and sell your cheeses at your village market?

In the same way as eggs are sold, through an association that is accredited

 

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In the same way as eggs are sold, through an association that is accredited

 

You have to join the cooperative. Sure, it raises quality over time but it closes the job opportunities for the weaker, less organised, less abled ones.

The old France was full of life, even in small villages, because people shopped locally. Ever since the EC, small shops close because they can't afford to comply and compete. Everyone now shops at centres commerciaux.

 

That's the choice of the consumers, nothing to do with regulation and red tape. The supermarkets and shopping malls and centres offer a far superior range of consumables while charging less than the small businesses.

 

If consumers really wanted the small businesses they be happy to pay what it costs to deal with the regulations, but clearly they aren't.

 

You're beginning to sound like Jacob Rees Mogg and his longings for the 19th century to return. If there's one thing we've learnt from history its that we can never go back, no matter how much we may like to. Pandora's Box only opens, there's no way to close it.

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Just think on what you are saying here . 17 million racists living on an an island of mongrel inhabitants.??? Think about it. Its not actually possible, without civil war,massive social unrest. Its an utterly stupid conjecture, and likely to cause much bad feeling.

 

I'm sure a few white indigineous Yorkies were surprised...

 

Genes reveal West African heritage of white Brits

 

Then again I remember a US neo-nazi white supremacist on another forum claiming to be of pure European stock (and without any Neantherdal ) according to a mailorder DNA test) - and she was taken a back when it was pointed out to her that European genetics is a very mixed bag at best (many incoming waves of incoming migrants washing back & forth into Europe populating and interbreeding over millinea), and the only folk without any fraction of Neantherdal genes would have to came from deep within Africa! - in the end it was discovered that the DNA test she claimed didn't even test for Neantherdal so she was either lying or completely deluded to protect her mind imploding from conflicting racist beliefs interwined with her racial ancestral identity.

Less growth, we'll need fewer immigrants.

I am not at all against freedom of movement, which I consider one of the fundamental human rights.

I am against the distortion of the labour market by allowing workers paid and taxed in one country while working and living 'temporarily' in another. Example: lorry drivers.

 

Sorry Woosh....I think you have lost it.....Why would we want less growth?...isn't Hammond hoping for growth to pay off our debt and sort out the deficit. Are you saying that if we have less growth we won't want employees so we won't want immigrants but that means we won't want uk workers either.

You seem to want a return to small businesses who only serve a local market ,a sort of 'open all hours'.....that is long gone,even the 10 o'clock shops have been dominated by micro supermarkets and shopping is all the better for it....cheaper and more choice,my local micro Sainsburys is brilliant,all the staff are lovely,polite,brill service and EU.

Your last paragraph would result in no airline pilots....the modern European airline industry uses pilots from all over the world,they have bases in most EU countries but pay their taxes in the home of the airline (Ryanair is Ireland).

As others have noticed you seem to want a return to the 'good ol days',the good old days were only good for the wealthy elite,which is what IDS and Rees-Mogg covet,it won't be good for the rest of us.

KudosDave

As others have noticed you seem to want a return to the 'good ol days',the good old days were only good for the wealthy elite,which is what IDS and Rees-Mogg covet,it won't be good for the rest of us.

if you ask the poorer among us 'do you think your life/wealth/job prosspect is getting better or worse in the last 10 years?' - I bet you can separate remainers and brexiters.

I think Brexit was also about giving the Tories a bloody nose, I know many voted to leave just to do this and get rid of Cameron.

There were probably 17million different reasons to vote for Brexit and 15 million other different and even similar reasons to vote for remain. Wanting to express dissatisfaction with the ruling party was probably significant in both sides, .. but that really is all water under the bridge. What is important is how the ruling elite .. all MPs and lords , chose to interpret it., And how they might chose to interpret it if given another opportunity.

if you ask the poorer among us 'do you think your life/wealth/job prosspect is getting better or worse in the last 10 years?' - I bet you can separate remainers and brexiters.

 

I tried to think generally about your posting but it is difficult to answer....everybody around me...... employees,family,neighbours,friends all seem to have improved life/wealth.....most of my staff are buying their own homes or are in good quality social housing.....the combination of either tax credits or benefits seems to be a safety net.

I have friends who are very wealthy who voted Leave,mainly about immigration. I have staff who voted Leave,who thought it would improve their lifestyle. I am intrigued that some voted Leave.....Welsh hill farmers,they get big EU grants,will Hammond replace them,will they be able to compete into Europe post Brexit.....Fishermen,Gove is already saying he is going to let the Danes into our inshore....Nissan/Honda car assemblers,have they voted themselves out of a job.....Benefit claimers,IDS universal credit is going to hurt....but many voted Leave.

Yes the last 10 years have been good for good businesses....maybe Redwood/Bone/IDS and Rees-Mogg will continue corporation tax reductions and make a favourable climate for business,however I cannot see how these politicians have any intention of helping the poor or even the jams,yet Brexiters look towards them as their champions,that I cannot understand.

KudosDave

The EU is threatening to kick out the Poles from the EU because Poland wishes to change its courts judiciary,not sure why that affects the EU?

The Poles have responded that they didn't get full war repetition after Germany invaded Poland,they want 350 billion Euros.

I suppose GB could be entitled similar reparation,that would mean that the EU owes us net about 300 billion.

It's all getting nasty Mr Cameron!!!!!

KudosDave

everybody around me...... employees,family,neighbours,friends all seem to have improved life/wealth.....most of my staff are buying their own homes or are in good quality social housing.....the combination of either tax credits or benefits seems to be a safety net.

your staff are doing well. Good for them.

My guess, none of them is single parent? none of them unable to manage their money or uses foodbanks.

You should ask those who are single parents, or deep in debt or rely on foodbanks which way they voted.

You should ask those who are single parents, or deep in debt or rely on foodbanks which way they voted.

 

I never knew the EU was making our single women pregnant.

 

Or plunging them into debt.

 

Or banning them from supermarkets.

 

I'd always thought it was fecklessness mainly to blame.

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your staff are doing well. Good for them.

My guess, none of them is single parent? none of them unable to manage their money or uses foodbanks.

You should ask those who are single parents, or deep in debt or rely on foodbanks which way they voted.

 

I agree....I don't know any of my staff that are in bad problems....but how is voting Leave going to help single parents or those in debt or those reliant on foodbanks?

I can understand that there are many who voted Leave to draw attention to their problems,May said she was a PM for everyone....but what has she done for the poor or the jams,I cannot think of anything,can you?

She intended to bring back fox hunting and build more grammar schools,that seems middle/upper class prospects,can't see the poor single parent rejoicing about the return of fox hunting and selective Grammar schools difficult to attain.

Why do the poor continue to want Brexit,what's in it for them?

KudosDave

Edited August 8, 20178 yr by Kudoscycles

you should really take a more critical look at the way the EU creates the SM framework. It is based on capitalism, pure and simple. Sure, it will tax and fine the multinationals but the latter prosper while the small shops shut.

The old France was full of life, even in small villages, because people shopped locally. Ever since the EC, small shops close because they can't afford to comply and compete. Everyone now shops at centres commerciaux.

 

In France there was industry well spread throughout the country. The factories were bought by the American pension funds, closed and the machines sent off to countries with cheaper labour. No jobs = no clients, that killed the village shops. Fewer people had cars back then. Shopping malls and supermarkets didn't exist.

 

I am not talking about so long ago, I arrived in 1977 and have seen the death of village life. But there is rebirth of the French village. People are sick of city life and thanks to the digital economy are moving back to villages. OK so mostly the pretty ones with great weather...

.but how is voting Leave going to help single parents or those in debt or those reliant on foodbanks?

Why do the poor continue to want Brexit,what's in it for them?

 

Being in the EU did not help them at all. That why they voted to leave.

I remember the original EC marking. We were supposed to apply for certification on anything we produced. It's affordable for big companies, how can you pay for certifications if you only make and sell your cheeses at your village market?

You'd love maputo (capital Mozambique), no red tape at all. Spread a reed mat on a pavement and your good to sell any product. That is until you find out the succulent prawns you've been eating are farmed in the local sewage system, where there are far more toxic matter than human excrement to be worried about. Certification is good for the consumer.

Being in the EU did not help them at all. That why they voted to leave.

Actually it did, now they will come to realise they can't even depend on what little benefits they receive, as this was always something an unfettered Tory party was keen on cutting.

Their rights to anything are about to take a steep nose dive.

The Turkeys voting for Christmas isn't far from the truth.

Anyone who imagines that the poor will be better off after Brexit is definitely lacking in the Critical Faculties Department.

Anyone who imagines that the poor will be better off after Brexit is definitely lacking in the Critical Faculties Department.

I don't think so. You assume that voting for brexit = voting to keep the tories.

Socialism is not easy within the constitution of the EU. Take the role of government in providing assisted jobs for the less able-bodied or educated for example.

I don't think so. You assume that voting for brexit = voting to keep the tories.

Socialism is not easy within the constitution of the EU. Take the role of government in providing assisted jobs for the less able-bodied or educated for example.

For crying out loud! where are you coming from? the only legislation that has benefited the lower orders for the last 40 years has come out of either the EU directly, or because it wouldn't accept anything else, and I remind you, Socialism isn't something intended only to work in tiny little backwater nations run by a Parish Council that live in fear of "Johnny Foreigners"

 

The Labour party here is little more than a local Rabble, and everyone knows that, they are not real Socialists, just as before Hi jack the left wing vote, or they would have come out firmly against Brexit in any shape or form.

 

The Socialist intent is to work towards a World run by a single Government for the people of the people and by the people, not by the local Mafias we have now.

 

The EU was a first step in that direction despite all it's faults, and now in a fit of foolishness we have even fallen off that small step, back into the gutter.

 

As to this

Take the role of government in providing assisted jobs for the less able-bodied or educated

We have seen how that works out, haven't we?

Forget it, it is used against the people not for them.

your staff are doing well. Good for them.

My guess, none of them is single parent? none of them unable to manage their money or uses foodbanks.

You should ask those who are single parents, or deep in debt or rely on foodbanks which way they voted.

There was a report on yesterday's BBC news detailing how stagnant money has been over the last decade, .. basically since the crash of 2007. It would have supported Woosh s viewpoint. , Not Kudo s