Being in the EU did not help them at all. That why they voted to leave.

.. could I modify that to .. they were led to believe that ... Being in the EU etc.

There was a report on yesterday's BBC news detailing how stagnant money has been over the last decade, .. basically since the crash of 2007. It would have supported Woosh s viewpoint. , Not Kudo s

 

the problem with the EU's mutualised banking is that it can bring the whole system down by making credit permanently cheap until the whole edifice collapses. I am not saying that this will happen tomorrow, but if RBS example* is anything to go by, low interest rate aggravates indebtedness and widens the gap between the haves and haves not.

 

* RBS: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40869363

 

"I said to him, how long can you last? And what he said to me shook me to the core. He said, 'well we're going to run out of money in the early afternoon'."

.. could I modify that to .. they were led to believe that ... Being in the EU etc.

The problem we have is that it is a lot more expensive to provide a safety net for UK citizens than Greece's for example. We can only do that if we can restrict a lot of entitlements to those who are permanently stuck in the UK.

You'd love maputo (capital Mozambique), no red tape at all. Spread a reed mat on a pavement and your good to sell any product. That is until you find out the succulent prawns you've been eating are farmed in the local sewage system, where there are far more toxic matter than human excrement to be worried about. Certification is good for the consumer.

We all want freedom to do what we individually want. To wander where we will on our horses or electric bikes , the American dream of the Marlboro man .. unfortunately ? Fortunately ? There are other people on the planet also, and when the Marlboro man pees in a stream, it affects someone else . So we need laws and regulations, not to protect the strong but the vulnerable. ...

the problem with the EU's mutualised banking is that it can bring the whole system down by making credit permanently cheap until the whole edifice collapses. I am not saying that this will happen tomorrow, but if RBS example* is anything to go by, low interest rate aggravates indebtedness and widens the gap between the haves and haves not.

 

* RBS: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40869363

 

"I said to him, how long can you last? And what he said to me shook me to the core. He said, 'well we're going to run out of money in the early afternoon'."

. I can agree with that . It was Ireland's accession to the single market and to the availability of ultra cheap German money, because the German public , with a race memory of 1930 inflation, would not spend, that fuelled our bubble from 2000 to 2006. It turned a real economic boom 1992 to 2000 , into a bubble economy, and led to our crash.

The problem we have is that it is a lot more expensive to provide a safety net for UK citizens than Greece's for example. We can only do that if we can restrict a lot of entitlements to those who are permanently stuck in the UK.

Going off topic, and as an infrequent visitor to mainland UK, I am struck by the lack of investment in housing and public infrastructure. I can compare it to France, where even small villages have ample educational and sporting facilities for the young. The small town I am in at present has a magnificent library, a brand new secondary school, beautiful flowerbeds , plenty of public spaces, swimming pool, at least two community football fields, tennis courts, and a continual roads and water supply improvement program. It is not unique as similar seems to be available all around the department.

Going off topic, and as an infrequent visitor to mainland UK, I am struck by the lack of investment in housing and public infrastructure. I can compare it to France, where even small villages have ample educational and sporting facilities for the young. The small town I am in at present has a magnificent library, a brand new secondary school, beautiful flowerbeds , plenty of public spaces, swimming pool, at least two community football fields, tennis courts, and a continual roads and water supply improvement program. It is not unique as similar seems to be available all around the department.

France has a lot more space, more income from tourism and higher taxes.

The UK political parties are more into buying votes, therefore tax the lower and middle income less. You can't have cake and eat it at the same time, if you rely on the top 5% to pay taxes, they are going to fight back by giving their money to the tories instead of paying taxes.

France has a lot more space, more income from tourism and higher taxes.

The UK political parties are more into buying votes, therefore tax the lower and middle income less. You can't have cake and eat it at the same time, if you rely on the top 5% to pay taxes, they are going to fight back by giving their money to the tories instead of paying taxes.

The greater land area is a physical fact, the others are political constructs. It seems to me, also as an outsider in France that the French take citizenship seriously, and are ensuring that the population has a vested interest in the country

the problem with the EU's mutualised banking is that it can bring the whole system down by making credit permanently cheap until the whole edifice collapses. I am not saying that this will happen tomorrow, but if RBS example* is anything to go by, low interest rate aggravates indebtedness and widens the gap between the haves and haves not.

 

* RBS: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40869363

 

"I said to him, how long can you last? And what he said to me shook me to the core. He said, 'well we're going to run out of money in the early afternoon'."

isn't it a bit rich to blame the eu's banking system after the anglo saxon world sub prime fuelled the financial crisis of 07/08?

isn't it a bit rich to blame the eu's banking system after the anglo saxon world sub prime fuelled the financial crisis of 07/08?

 

I am not blaming anyone, only underlining the inherent risk of ultra low interest rate in a mutualised banking environment (eurozone) where the bad and ugly banks can easily hide inside a large banking union. When you can borrow from them to buy properties for 30 years on 2%-3% mortgage rate, any shock to the system will cause the bad and ugly to fail and the system to seize up. The same happens to investment banking.

isn't it a bit rich to blame the eu's banking system after the anglo saxon world sub prime fuelled the financial crisis of 07/08?

.. the banking crisis had different causes in different places. Yes the us subprime debacle was the cause there and this set off a crisis caused initially by a bubble in Ireland. Consumer confidence all over the world took a hammering.

The greater land area is a physical fact, the others are political constructs. It seems to me, also as an outsider in France that the French take citizenship seriously, and are ensuring that the population has a vested interest in the country

The essential difference is that here in the UK we are Subjects in the eyes of those in Power, not Citizens.

The Country is run with scant to nil regard for the welfare of mere "Subjects"

The logic being You've expressed "The Will of the People"

And empowered us to take back control in any way we see fit.

 

Watch out for trouble!

The logic being You've expressed "The Will of the People"

And empowered us to take back control in any way we see fit.

 

the brexit logic does not lead to the tories to remain in power.

It only does if JC does not win it back from the tories.

the brexit logic does not lead to the tories to remain in power.

It only does if JC does not win it back from the tories.

It really doesn't matter, does it? the damage is done already, it just remains to watch the inevitable happen.

The simple truth is that all the cast of the Westminster Flying Circus have lost the plot and haven't a clue what to do next.

are you saying that they are idiots and should not be heard?

 

heard... yes.... listened to.... no.

 

This decision should have been left to educated experts, not us.. . and not politicians. Ask the experts in law, in trade, in immigration etc etc. Get them to submit evidence on what is best for the country as a whole, and then go with that. Having a popular vote on something 99.9% of people don't have a clue about was never a good idea. Its not something that should have been decided on emotion or single issues that effect individuals. It should always have been about what's best for the Nation.

gotta love these experts.

 

This guy was David Davies' Chief of Staff at the Department for Exiting the EU, so if more qualified to comment that most. guess what he thinks!

 

This decision should have been left to educated experts, not us.. . and not politicians.

 

DC wanted to buy votes, he may have crossed his fingers while he made the promise of an EU referendum.

He should have known that crossing his fingers could well be not enough.

the price has to be paid, and it was.

Would you now say that the plebs are not OK to vote because you don't like the result?

Would you now say that the plebs are not OK to vote because you don't like the result?

 

I would have (and indeed did) say that this was above our pay grade before June last year. The result doesn't change the fact that I didn't like the fact we were asked. This should have been about what is right / best not what is popular.

 

I don't feel qualified to comment outside my sphere of experience and knowledge, but everything I know and have researched points to "remain" however if experts showed that leaving made sense, I'd support it.

 

Currently they don't and we're leaving based on religious like beliefs from people who in the vast vast majority of cases don't have a clue what they are even leaving.

Currently they don't and we're leaving based on religious like beliefs from people who in the vast vast majority of cases don't have a clue what they are even leaving.

 

after 44 years, if as you say, the majority does not know what they are leaving then may be the explanation is that what they are leaving does not matter much to them.

There is a lot of circular logic going on here. I don't know much about cardiovascular surgery, and am not interested in it or discussing it. However it might be very very important to me some day,. Maybe even tomorrow. Should I have a vote on whether it is included in the medical syllabii? Does my opinion on this topic have equal value to that of a hospital registrar?

I have opinions on whether we should kill other people, should I have a right to vote on that, .. not being a soldier, of a hangman, I am no expert on killing. Does my opinion have equal value to one of these.

 

 

It seems to me that the Brexit discussion/ arguments are argued in both these levels without distinguishing between them.

Edited August 9, 20178 yr by Danidl

It seems to me that the Brexit discussion/ arguments are argued in both these levels without distinguishing between them.

that is to be expected. However, I find that remainers on this thread continue to treat brexiters as if they were all idiots.

The referendum did not ask 'what do you think is better for the country?'

They may turn out to be wrong on facts but please, they know what they want.

that is to be expected. However, I find that remainers on this thread continue to treat brexiters as if they were all idiots.

The referendum did not ask 'what do you think is better for the country?'

They may turn out to be wrong on facts but please, they know what they want.

 

They may know what they want,but do they know why they want it.?

One of my criticisms of Brexiters is they don't want to consider the effects of their vote or assist in sorting out the problems resulting from it.Often those who say 'we voted Leave now Leave' are not those who have to deliver Brexit....I suspect,as yet,Brexit has had no impact on their lives,by the time it has an effect it may be too late to reverse that effect.....for some of us,Brexit is causing and will cause a lot of work and difficult decisions that appear unnecessary.

What I don't want to hear is moaning from Brexiters that Brexit hasn't delivered whatever they expected ,Brexiters often say that their vote was based upon due diligence,so they can't say that they were uniformed.

KudosDave

Edited August 10, 20178 yr by Kudoscycles

after 44 years, if as you say, the majority does not know what they are leaving then may be the explanation is that what they are leaving does not matter much to them.

Perhaps not, but the consequences will engage their attention before long, and it will as always "Be someone else's fault!"

that is to be expected. However, I find that remainers on this thread continue to treat brexiters as if they were all idiots.

The referendum did not ask 'what do you think is better for the country?'

They may turn out to be wrong on facts but please, they know what they want.

No the don't , they know what they "Desire" what they want is a more sensible better informed and responsible point of view.

Guess the Paragon on virtue who wrote this in the Guardian

"

Junket Juncker strikes again! And £24k is just the tip of the iceberg

NIGEL FARAGE

 

Joke of the day, surely!