There's also of course the split country division of Denmark in the EU and it's territory of Greenland outside the EU, something that Scotland might wish to pursue in relation to Britain.

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Scotland voted to be part of the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union.

 

It's about time this sunk in and we got on with the task at hand.

Scotland voted to be part of the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union.

 

When the UK was in the EU. Now with the voting to leave the EU so soon after Scotland's decision, the Scots may as a separate country choose to change their decision in the light of the drastically changed circumstance.

 

It would help if the nomenclature was right, Scotland didn't in truth vote on being in the United Kingdom since they made it clear they would retain the throne and be united in loyalty to it.

 

Their referendum in title terms was about ending the title Great Britain. When they joined Britain originally the word Great was added to Britain to reflect the larger area, nothing to do with status as so many seem to think. More accurately it should have been named Greater Britain back then. Britain had previously been and still is just England and Wales. If Scotland leaves, Great Britain will no longer exist, but the United Kingdom will continue and in terms of the Kingdom will include Scotland.

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When the UK was in the EU. Now with the voting to leave the EU so soon after Scotland's decision, the Scots may as a separate country choose to change their decision in the light of the drastically changed circumstance.

 

It would help if the nomenclature was right, Scotland didn't in truth vote on being in the United Kingdom since they made it clear they would retain the throne and be united in loyalty to it.

 

Their referendum in title terms was about ending the title Great Britain. When they joined Britain originally the word Great was added to Britain to reflect the larger area, nothing to do with status as so many seem to think. More accurately it should have been named Greater Britain back then. Britain had previously been and still is just England and Wales. If Scotland leaves, Great Britain will no longer exist, but the United Kingdom will continue and in terms of the Kingdom will include Scotland.

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I don't think it's right to keep having vote after vote after vote every time something changes. The Scots have made their decision.

I don't think it's right to keep having vote after vote after vote every time something changes. The Scots have made their decision.

 

For the majority of changes, especialy internal, I agree, but this is no routine change. I think all are agreed that this move by the UK is a game changer and a momentous decision on an almost unprecedented scale.

 

I think the scale of this justifies Scotland having a fresh chance, if they wish it. After all, as a separate country that volunteered to join with Britain, they have the moral right to leave again at any time they wish.

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For the majority of changes, especialy internal, I agree, but this is no routine change. I think all are agreed that this move by the UK is a game changer and a momentous decision on an almost unprecedented scale.

 

I think the scale of this justifies Scotland having a fresh chance, if they wish it. After all, as a separate country that volunteered to join with Britain, they have the moral right to leave again at any time they wish.

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They will never survive once they lose the pound and sever ties with the Bank of England. I doubt that the EU would allow them to join. On their own they have very little to offer.

They will never survive once they lose the pound and sever ties with the Bank of England. I doubt that the EU would allow them to join. On their own they have very little to offer.

 

Yes, I certainly wouldn't argue that their possible move would be wise, but I'm happy for them to make their own mistakes.

 

They'd survive since they are a resilient lot and have a very long history of coping against the odds, but it could be tough.

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Are we talking Scotland or Nicola Sturgeon?

I doubt the Scottish people will vote to leave the uk with all the baggage that will come with them joining the eu/€

I was chatting to my old school friend who lives in Edinburgh and his Scottish partner last week, both rolled their eyes at the though of another Scotland exit referendum..

 

EU has said they wouldn't be interested in Scotland as a member on it's own (obviously nothing for them to pillage, sorry redistribute ).

EU has said they wouldn't be interested in Scotland as a member on it's own

 

You can ignore that, it's just politics, the EU members only willing to discuss the UK departure in isolation. Then afterwards they'll deal with Scotland if required to, as ever wanting to take any extra bit of territory into the union. From Luxembourg to trying to include Norway, they've always shown willing to include countries smaller than Scotland.

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I actually forecast a win for the leave camp, despite being completely against that, though I was in fact wrong in expecting it to be a much more emphatic result.

The reason for this feeling was the knowledge that it has been the policy of successive Governments here to lay the blame for everything that they do that goes wrong against the EU.

They have been a party to every rule and regulation that has come from there yet lied about their complicity in agreeing and adding their signature on the dotted line.

This appears to apply to all parties in the Westminster lunatic Asylum.

And then there is our Glorious "free press" which is better describes as not free but available for a fee.

How for instance can it convert an agreement over fishing rights originated by this country to curb foreign trawlers devastating fish stocks in the North Sea as a Plot to destroy our fishing industry, and succeed in kidding most of our Fishermen that that is indeed the case?

"The Big Lie" has been pretty nearly successful and applied constantly for 30 years or so has turned the EU into a Whipping Boy for Parliament.

The supreme irony is that when that imbecile Cameron tried to use a referendum to ward off a loss of votes to the UKIP, his own lies have caught up with him and his defence of the EU sounded utterly false

The referendum has been subverted by a generation of lies that have polluted the political scene.

The general public discontent has been used and abused by the idiot politicians fronting the leave campaign for furthering their own squalid careers making lies seem like some fundamental truth and promising all will be well and it's "Free Beer Tomorrow" with no plan as to how to do.

And now we see them deserting the field where there is a possibility of taking the reins and carrying the flak for the damage they have done.

How very brave and public spirited of them!

Ironically the Government itself didn't make any either, which is dereliction of duty on a galactic scale,

The Majority Vote was against the the EU (depicted as the villain of the peace,) and when Cameron and Osborne came out suddenly in it's defence, after blaming it for their lack of control of events the vote really represented a public desire to kick them in the testicles

Europe is in fact far better off without us. I wish them well, while for us, I just hope we put in a spurt on the Growing up and facing reality front.

Hopefully when sanity returns and we try to apply for membership, we will be an honest member of the community and not just a troublemaker.

Remember the only legislation that has effected the well being, rights, safety and improved the environment for most peoples lifetimes have all come out of the EU

Now we have delivered ourselves into the hands of our worst enemies.

And all through lies.

Edited July 6, 20169 yr by oldgroaner

To answer the OP's question, no, we should not be surprised.

 

The only surprise to me was the margin was so narrow.

 

I have long thought the general populace is fed up with EU meddling and would boot it into touch given the chance.

 

The surprise to me was we were given the chance.

 

Those who make their (non) living from pointless bureaucracy were unlikely to give us the opportunity to vote for less of it.

 

While I'm on, I've been disappointed with the whiny attitude to the result of the Remainers.

 

I voted out, but were I given the opportunity, I would also have voted to accept the result whatever it was and make the best of it.

It wasn't the EU that was meddling our Government signed off everything that happened then denied it had done so.

I don't think it whiny to expect democracy. As you said the margin was very narrow, so I therefore object to those who speak in terms of total departure from the EU. We should and probably will have a democratic compromise reflecting the interests of both halves of the electorate.

 

The interesting thing will be whether the leavers accept that, when they find only moderate change results.

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Isn't that like being a bit pregnant ???

Isn't that like being a bit pregnant ???

It might be argued that the country is having a Phantom Pregnancy right now!

Isn't that like being a bit pregnant ???

 

No, there are many different possible relationships with the EU while not being a member.

 

At one extreme there's the Norwegian one which is most close to matching our referendum's indecisive result.

 

At the other extreme there's Vladimir Putin's Russia.

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It would seem that brexit is the only news on offer at the moment...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/07/stories-buried-brexit-child-poverty-un-austerity

It would seem that brexit is the only news on offer at the moment...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/07/stories-buried-brexit-child-poverty-un-austerity

 

Indeed.... its utterly despicable the way this government has heaped the burden of austerity on to the least well off.

Its no wonder given the chance to stick to the establishment, these voters were going to jump at it. Like this guy, of which there are many like him....

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/30/martin-nothing-lose-vote-leave-unemployed-benefits-sanctioned

I am constantly amused by the way in supporters use words like indecisive to describe the result while the out's describe it as very decisive.

I am just reading Mr Osborne saying the city will thrive and remain the hub of world finances.

Really, just what are we supposed to believe?

It would seem that brexit is the only news on offer at the moment...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/07/stories-buried-brexit-child-poverty-un-austerity

Shush! you're not supposed to Notice that are you?

I am constantly amused by the way in supporters use words like indecisive to describe the result while the out's describe it as very decisive.

I am just reading Mr Osborne saying the city will thrive and remain the hub of world finances.

Really, just what are we supposed to believe?

Well heres an inescapable fact for you

The Nations future has been decided by just under 4% of the people who voted in the referendum.

And the possibility they did that with a full understanding of what they had done or even why is remote.

Well heres an inescapable fact for you

The Nations future has been decided by just under 4% of the people who voted in the referendum.

And the possibility they did that with a full understanding of what they had done or even why is remote.

Is that statistic like the one where 70% of the under 25's voted to stay? When in fact it's actually 70% of the 30% that were bothered to get out of bed? I am not an intellectual so I can only use my life's experience to decide what's right and to constantly hear those like me being called stupid doesn't help. I also wonder who is pushing the idea that most of the leavers want to change their mind... is it a case of say it enough and it will be true??

Is that statistic like the one where 70% of the under 25's voted to stay? When in fact it's actually 70% of the 30% that were bothered to get out of bed? I am not an intellectual so I can only use my life's experience to decide what's right and to constantly hear those like me being called stupid doesn't help. I also wonder who is pushing the idea that most of the leavers want to change their mind... is it a case of say it enough and it will be true??

No, is it a case that you would prefer not to believe it?

 

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

No, is it a case that you would prefer not to believe it?

 

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Not to beleive what exactly? that some are trying to convince us that we want to change our minds!

Please be aware that clever phrasing and politispeak is a bit lost on me.. If you want to make a point please make it it plain..

I have already said I expected the result and forecast it, when others doubted remember?

Because people have been deliberately misled into thinking the government didn't agree to all the legislation coming out of the EU, when in fact they did and only in 2% of the case argued against something and lost.

Everything else they agreed to. Hardly a case of being domineered by the EU was it?

Your voting decision wasn't so much stupid as inevitable considering the info you had, but then again, you didn't check whether it was true, did you?

 

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I have already said I expected the result and forecast it, when others doubted remember?

Because people have been deliberately misled into thinking the government didn't agree to all the legislation coming out of the EU, when in fact they did and only in 2% of the case argued against something and lost.

Everything else they agreed to. Hardly a case of being domineered by the EU was it?

Your voting decision wasn't so much stupid as inevitable considering the info you had, but then again, you didn't check whether it was true, did you?

 

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To be fair, the rules from the eu thing wasn't what decided me personally.. For me it was the uncontrolled immigration and the way the remains tried constantly to make it racist to have this view, which was then compounded by Cameron's warning that pensioners could loose £35000 a year after Brexit, and as my pension is only £5000 per year it showed me just how out of touch the rich really are..

As for checking the so called facts offered by both sides.. I wouldn't know where to start!

again about facts.. less than 25% of the under 25's actually voted to remain.. I dont know if that's true or not, I suppose its a bit like the net or gross figure we pay in the the pot.. The remain people just dont seem to be able to accept that they lost..

I wonder if loosing is a new thing for some!

I also wonder who is pushing the idea that most of the leavers want to change their mind... is it a case of say it enough and it will be true??

 

Nobody is pushing the idea, it just results from the fact that so many being interviewed who voted to leave are expressing second thoughts now it's actually happened. There's no doubt that many who were really exercising a protest vote against our governemnt are now alarmed at the outcome, many of them saying they would change their vote if they could. All this and more has been seen and heard repeatedly in live interviews from all media sources.

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