Any policeman trying to disassemble my bike will hear from my lawyer...

 

But yea, I'll use something better than double sided tape to fix it on there...

 

[mention=8201]1boris[/mention]: Hei, nå har jeg bestilt 750w versjonen, har ikke god nok råd til å betale mer for den kjipe versjonen...

Men det er noe rart med betegnelsene, om den er 250w på 25A, så er den enten 10V, eller så er den like lite lovlig som min etter jeg har satt 250w klistremerke på den...

 

Den er visst lovlig,han har snakka med jurist i statens vegvesen om det.Det er ifølge EN 15194 ikkje oppgitt maks ampere.Kun at det er ein merket fra fabrikk 250w motor med maks fart 25kmh .Og 48 volt er maks når det gjelder batteri her.Masse lovlige elsykler med feks 36v 20 amp.Dei blir stadig kraftigere,noke som er umulig om ikkje amperen øker stadig

Any policeman trying to disassemble my bike will hear from my lawyer...

But if you're lying in hospital after an accident, you may not have any say in whether they can touch your bike or not. They would have already taken it away for inspection by the relevant authorities.

 

As I say, ride a powerful bike at your own risk, but don't expect a lawyer to get you out of a sticky mess through loopholes.

Den er visst lovlig,han har snakka med jurist i statens vegvesen om det.Det er ifølge EN 15194 ikkje oppgitt maks ampere.Kun at det er ein merket fra fabrikk 250w motor med maks fart 25kmh .Og 48 volt er maks når det gjelder batteri her.Masse lovlige elsykler med feks 36v 20 amp.Dei blir stadig kraftigere,noke som er umulig om ikkje amperen øker stadig

 

Enten så kverulerer du, ellers har du ikke greie på strøm..

36Vx20A =720W,

Meen, leste og dobbeltsjekket. motoren må kunne levere over 250w i en time i strekk uten at teperaturen stiger mer enn 2 grader i motoren. så det er jo et fullstendig tullete regelverk som tillater høyere effekt bare motoren blir varm av det...

 

 

If you guys feel left out, we're just discussing the legality of a "250w" 36V20A setup VS a 750w 48v setup. As far as I can see, 36v 20A will give pretty much the same power, but they hide behind a loophole. The engine may provide more than 250w, but only for one hour straight, if it can supply more than 250w for one hour straight without the motor heating up by 2 degrees its illegal according to the law. Well, I better hope my motor gets warm..

Edited January 6, 20179 yr by Renax

Enten så kverulerer du, ellers har du ikke greie på strøm..

36Vx20A =720W,

Meen, leste og dobbeltsjekket. motoren må kunne levere over 250w i en time i strekk uten at teperaturen stiger mer enn 2 grader i motoren. så det er jo et fullstendig tullete regelverk som tillater høyere effekt bare motoren blir varm av det...

 

 

If you guys feel left out, we're just discussing the legality of a "250w" 36V20A setup VS a 750w 48v setup. As far as I can see, 36v 20A will give pretty much the same power, but they hide behind a loophole. The engine may provide more than 250w, but only for one hour straight, if it can supply more than 250w for one hour straight without the motor heating up by 2 degrees its illegal according to the law. Well, I better hope my motor gets warm..

 

Kverulere ikkje,det er sånn reglene er.lovlige elsykler som bosch,yamaha,bh emotion osv har alle over 15a kontrollere.mellom 15a og 25a.Dette er jo snart allmennkunnskap

Kverulere ikkje,det er sånn reglene er.lovlige elsykler som bosch,yamaha,bh emotion osv har alle over 15a kontrollere.mellom 15a og 25a.Dette er jo snart allmennkunnskap

 

Har lest litt og forstår mer, og er kommet til konklusjonen at 250w max er en vits, og man må bare passe på at motoren blir varmere om man går over det.

Grensa på 25km/t derimot er streng, men den har jeg tenkt å beholde...

<det vegvesen og politi i norge sjekker er farten,25 pluss minus 10%.dvs max 27.5.men motoren bør jo ikkje vere merka 750w,så det ville eg fjerna.har ein sånn sjøl.du blir garanter fornøyd.fikk 60kmt på flat asfalt med 29" hjul.viktig med et batteri som kan levere 25a kontinuerlig.ikkje for mange av dei.bms battery har

If you guys feel left out, we're just discussing the legality of a "250w" 36V20A setup

 

My last two certified legal e-bikes with identical electrical components have nominally been exactly this, only in the real world the controllers could actually peak at around 28 amps, as the measured 1000 watts gross indicated.

 

So I don't see any problems on the legality.

.

The engine may provide more than 250w, but only for one hour straight, if it can supply more than 250w for one hour straight without the motor heating up by 2 degrees its illegal according to the law. Well, I better hope my motor gets warm..

 

No that's not right. If you trace through the standards from EN15194, it leads you to a motor power test standard. That standard is to test if the motor meets the rated power. It's not a test to find the maximum power, i.e. if the motor is marked 250w, then you determine the rpm at which it's most efficient, then you run it there at 250w output power for x amount of time. If it doesn't overheat, it passes. There's no requirement anywhere to determine the maximum continuous power that the motor can achieve. If there were, just about every OEM ebike would fail.

Renax, hope you don't think I was being a bit in your face with my comment about the lawyer. It's just we have a topsy-turvy legal system, where someone might get a slap on the wrist for doing something abhorrent, and another banged up for walking down the street in the wrong clothes.

 

Ok, so it's not that bad, but I hope you get what I mean

 

The phrase 'you get less for murder' springs to mind

<det vegvesen og politi i norge sjekker er farten,25 pluss minus 10%.dvs max 27.5.men motoren bør jo ikkje vere merka 750w,så det ville eg fjerna.har ein sånn sjøl.du blir garanter fornøyd.fikk 60kmt på flat asfalt med 29" hjul.viktig med et batteri som kan levere 25a kontinuerlig.ikkje for mange av dei.bms battery har

 

Skal fjerne 750w, og klistre på 250w, som nevnt tidligere her...

Batteriet skal klare hvertfall 40A kontinuerlig, (Samsung 29E celler)

 

 

There's no requirement anywhere to determine the maximum continuous power that the motor can achieve

Because thats just about impossible, a 250w motor can easily put out double that for a short time, and then triple for a even shorter time. what is easy is to measure (and or limit) how much power it actually makes in a application. I was under the impression that that was a requirement for a legal ebike. but i guess not..

 

[mention=2972]Fordulike[/mention] No worries..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VGdUXRfwZk

Skal fjerne 750w, og klistre på 250w, som nevnt tidligere her...

Batteriet skal klare hvertfall 40A kontinuerlig, (Samsung 29E celler)

 

 

 

Because thats just about impossible, a 250w motor can easily put out double that for a short time, and then triple for a even shorter time. what is easy is to measure (and or limit) how much power it actually makes in a application. I was under the impression that that was a requirement for a legal ebike. but i guess not..

 

[mention=2972]Fordulike[/mention] No worries..

 

 

Do not make the assumption that if an on bike display states consumption is Xwatts that that is the power coming from the motor. It is easy to electrically measure voltage and current and simple for a calculator to multiply these together and produce a number called watts. It is less easy to measure the torque produced by the motor which when multiplied by the rotation speed of the motor (easy to measure) would give the mechanical power.

What those simple measurements gives is the power being dissipated by the battery a different animal altogether.

my bike goes 30mph

[mention=15283]Danidl[/mention] : Torque isn't that relevant here, "if I was king" I'd say a 250w motor running on 36V must have a 7.5A fuse.

If you are hellbound on limiting it for how much power they actually produce rather than what they consume then do so, they manage to do so for both mopeds and cars don't they?

In this case the motor can produce 3kW in real life, but because the company who makes them markets them as "250W" its street legal. just seems silly to have any restrictions at all if you can get around them by just straight up lying...

 

But this tread has gone horribly off topic now....

the bosch motors are 700w and software restricted to 250w tho under the 15mph limit they can use all of the 700w of power climbing hills.

 

with no limit i can hit over 30mph tho in both cases it more than half's the range the power has to come from somewhere

[mention=15283]Danidl[/mention] : Torque isn't that relevant here, "if I was king" I'd say a 250w motor running on 36V must have a 7.5A fuse.

If you are hellbound on limiting it for how much power they actually produce rather than what they consume then do so, they manage to do so for both mopeds and cars don't they?

In this case the motor can produce 3kW in real life, but because the company who makes them markets them as "250W" its street legal. just seems silly to have any restrictions at all if you can get around them by just straight up lying...

 

But this tread has gone horribly off topic now....

 

Nail head hit. If the manufacturer says 250 watts but it's 750 then you are ok.

If you buy a 500 watt and relabel it, you are committing fraud and driving an un licensed,taxed or insured motor vehicle. In an accident you would be liable for all the costs and any damages on top of any criminal offences.

[mention=15283]Danidl[/mention] : Torque isn't that relevant here, "if I was king" I'd say a 250w motor running on 36V must have a 7.5A fuse.

If you are hellbound on limiting it for how much power they actually produce rather than what they consume then do so, they manage to do so for both mopeds and cars don't they?

In this case the motor can produce 3kW in real life, but because the company who makes them markets them as "250W" its street legal. just seems silly to have any restrictions at all if you can get around them by just straight up lying...

 

But this tread has gone horribly off topic now....

 

 

Mechanical power watts =2 pi torque x revs per second of course torque is relevent . It is the mechanical power which brings the bike up. The hill.

 

Electric power consumed watts current x voltage

Efficiency = mechanical power / electric power.

 

When you purchase bike from a recognised manufacturer it will have CE marking, designation codes etc and the manufacturer has taken responsibility for type approval etc. You are off the hook.

If you manufacture the bike yourself, even from kit parts you are assuming this responsibility.

As Dave has said if you use parts and deliberately falsified information you are guilty of fraudulent activity and potentially open to legal action.

Mechanical power watts =2 pi torque x revs per second of course torque is relevent . It is the mechanical power which brings the bike up. The hill.

 

Electric power consumed watts current x voltage

Efficiency = mechanical power / electric power.

 

When you purchase bike from a recognised manufacturer it will have CE marking, designation codes etc and the manufacturer has taken responsibility for type approval etc. You are off the hook.

If you manufacture the bike yourself, even from kit parts you are assuming this responsibility.

As Dave has said if you use parts and deliberately falsified information you are guilty of fraudulent activity and potentially open to legal action.

 

 

 

The reason why putting a 7.5amp fuse in would not be a necessary is that if the motor was operating at 50% efficiency you would only be getting 125w of output mechanical power, andll you are entitled to the full 250w . At very low revs the mechanicalpower falls to zero, so you are entitled to have massive currents.

sclass bike motors are rated at 350w from bosch but they are the same thing inside.

 

its why all bosch motors can put out 700w

I'm just arguing that the rules are stupid, I know very well that I'm a criminal, none of my cars are strictly legal either.

 

you are committing fraud and driving an un licensed,taxed or insured motor vehicle. In an accident you would be liable for all the costs and any damages on top of any criminal offences.

Well I'f this is true in England I'm thankful I don't live there. over here the person who caused the accident is liable anyhow..

I'm just arguing that the rules are stupid, I know very well that I'm a criminal, none of my cars are strictly legal either.

 

 

Well I'f this is true in England I'm thankful I don't live there. over here the person who caused the accident is liable anyhow..

 

So you are saying that here in Norway you can drive an ilegal vehicle and thats ok if you are not the one that caused the accident.Thats just a plain lie.

there is not 1 kit on ebay that is uk road legal regardless of the motor wattage.

 

why?

 

because on near all of them you are able to remove the 15mph via the lcd screen or on the controller.

 

you cant do this on bosch bikes as the system is locked down and only a dongle will remove the speed limit.

 

both are classed as a off road switch and illegal under uk law.

 

so if the police want to enforce the law as is most would have there bikes taken away at first sight.

 

but it dont happen as the police are not interested in enforcing it and to date there has not been 1 test case nor has any member had a bike taken from them.

So you are saying that here in Norway you can drive an ilegal vehicle and thats ok if you are not the one that caused the accident.Thats just a plain lie.

 

Well, I have had a head on crash at 70km/h with my old VW bus, I did not have insurance at the time of the accident.

I got full coverage for my wrecked bus from the opposing drivers insurance company, only reaction to me not having insurance was that the police took the license plates from my then wrecked car on site. If the accident was my fault I would have to pay for the repairs of his car, that would be bad. But how much damage can a bike really do?

 

Ofc, I will be fined for driving a unregistered vehicle if the police finds out, that fine i know from experience is 4000NOK, and a chance I'm willing to take because I am as you all now know a hardened criminal:)

Well, I have had a head on crash at 70km/h with my old VW bus, I did not have insurance at the time of the accident.

I got full coverage for my wrecked bus from the opposing drivers insurance company, only reaction to me not having insurance was that the police took the license plates from my then wrecked car on site. If the accident was my fault I would have to pay for the repairs of his car, that would be bad. But how much damage can a bike really do?

 

Ofc, I will be fined for driving a unregistered vehicle if the police finds out, that fine i know from experience is 4000NOK, and a chance I'm willing to take because I am as you all now know a hardened criminal:)

 

I had an accident on my legal bike.

The car drivers friend tested the bike brakes while I was incapacitated,

The driver was subsequently prosecutied for there driving. My bill for expenses is about £13,000 so far. And with broken arm and subsequent arthritis I have had to change the type of bike I ride.

So easily I could have lost the money, my job as prosecution would have got me sacked. And any extra grief the police wished to apply to me.

You on the other hand drive without insurance had you injured someone else with your car could you have compensated them for a life changing injury.

You're self declaring as a sociopath. What respect do you expect?