Although your battery is able to deliver more amps it is held back by the 14/15a max controller rating so about 510- 540w is the max you can expect to see. Even with MJ1's I would be a little wary in drawing to much more out of them in a 3P (30a) configuration, the 10a peak rating for them isn't continuous but for a 5-10s burst.

 

And the discharge rate setting of the BMS. If you stay at 15 Amps you should be able to draw that much continuous with no problems:

 

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/LG%2018650%20MJ1%203500mAh%20%28Green%29%20UK.html

 

Each cell of the 3P group only needs to provide 5A at 15A discharge and the cell is quite cool at 7A discharge. With the 5.2A Samsung cells that is a whole different story as many of us have discovered. I looked but I can't find stress test data which says at which cell Amperage a 3P or 4P10S battery stops sagging badly at full discharge of common controllers (15A KT), anyone know? We all know the 30Q is good but what about the 10A cells?

Neal: Do you think that the YOSE/Elife kit would be capable of lugging around a total weight of 150kg with the standard 36v controller as supplied or would it not stand a chance even uprating the controller to 48v?

 

Just trying to check all options before putting an order in via China..

Edited January 3, 20188 yr by Unseen

For 150kg, you need a low-speed motor. That means an actual speed of around 201 rpm at the voltage that you run it. 48v gives 30% more torque, but it also causes the speed to increase by 30%, so if you want to run at 48v, you should get a 201rpm 48v version.

 

In order, I'd say that these motors would be a better choice for that sort of weight:

500w 48v 201 rpm Bafang BPM

800w 48v 201 rpm Q128H

48v Xiongda 2-speed

500w 48v Bafang CST (slowest you can find)

My all up is about 110/120kg carrying extra batteries and tools/kit etc, but I'm using a 20a controller so can give it more watts. The difference between pas 4 & 5 is very noticeable.

I think 150kg at the std set up will be a little wanting esp on inclines , rpm is 270/290 so not a high torque low speed hub.

My next step is to try 13s/48v so a potential 1080w so will see if it crashes and burns, it has the same rating and is much the same size as the Q100 so it might cope as long as I'm careful with the power delivery.

My next step is to try 13s/48v so a potential 1080w so will see if it crashes and burns, it has the same rating and is much the same size as the Q100 so it might cope as long as I'm careful with the power delivery.

There's nothing like a good ultimate load test to see how strong motors actually are.

 

My prediction is that it's going to get very warm with that weight and 48v. If it were around 230 rpm at 36v, it would have a better chance running with 48v.

 

I had a MXUS CST motor that's similar. It was around 270 rpm at 36v. It wasn't very happy at 48v, an all-up weight of 125kg and hills. The increase in torque wasn't as much as the normal 30% because it was running much less efficiently, which made it heat up too easily too, so I had to use a lower assist level and ended up with the same power as before, but running less efficiently.

 

The 36v Xiongda motor is the same. It has a speed in high gear of around 260 rpm. It also felt very wrong at 48v, while as the 260 rpm 48v version was perfect.

 

Please let us know how it turns out.

My all up is about 110/120kg carrying extra batteries and tools/kit etc, but I'm using a 20a controller so can give it more watts.

...

My next step is to try 13s/48v so a potential 1080w

 

Total system weight for me is about 90 kg human + 20 kg machine = 110 kg - I'd be thrilled if a 13s3p (2.5 kg weight in total) when combined with the 17A pswpower _sine wave_ controller were to offer even more (sustainable) torque. Not sure, though, what exactly to expect from going from the OEM Kunteng 36V square wave controller to the nice sine wave version.

I had no need to do anything as I already was using a pwsp 20a controller with matching components with sm3 connectors with the Q128c, all I had to do was swap out the hub.

 

I might be dense, sorry:

 

My 17A pswpower controller has three individual motor phase wires, and one plug DJ7061-2.8-21 for 5x hall and 1x speed (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/36V-48V-350W-Brushless-DC-Sine-Wave-Controller-ebike-Electric-Bicycle-Hub-Motor-Controller-with-right/32759804535.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10342_10343_10059_10340_10314_10341_10534_100031_10084_10604_10083_10103_10307_10142_10134,searchweb201603_36,ppcSwitch_7&algo_expid=b7ac969c-c987-44ed-a998-5e5c0adc5295-19&algo_pvid=b7ac969c-c987-44ed-a998-5e5c0adc5295&priceBeautifyAB=0).

 

The YosePower motor has that one Julet plug.

 

Square peg -> round hole?

 

I am looking for the least painful way to accomplish that mission, preferably while neither wrecking my nerves nor any of the hardware. Would it be (more) advisable to get hold of one of these "precious" (= seriously overpriced) Julet 3+5+1 extension cables, cut that in the middle and then solder it to extend the pswpower controller? How would one find the matching phase cable, the matching hall sensor cable (and thus the remaining speed sensor?). Going by cable colours strikes me as playing with fire?

Addendum: The extension cable would be something like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Motor-cable-with-9-pin-waterproof-connector-male-and-female-for-motor/32814558471.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10342_10343_10059_10340_10314_10341_10534_100031_10084_10604_10083_10103_10307_10142_10134,searchweb201603_36,ppcSwitch_7&algo_expid=b7ac969c-c987-44ed-a998-5e5c0adc5295-20&algo_pvid=b7ac969c-c987-44ed-a998-5e5c0adc5295&priceBeautifyAB=0 at USD 14 shipped. Grrr.

And the discharge rate setting of the BMS. If you stay at 15 Amps you should be able to draw that much continuous with no problems

 

I am running this pack: http://enerprof.de/shop/batteries/ebike-and-pedelec-batteries/enerpower-softpack-36v-10s3p-10-35ah-with-bms-pedelec-battery-8x8-diy/ which advertises

• Continuous discharge current: 20A = 720 Watt
  
• 10 Min. discharge current: 25A = 900 Watt
  
• 5 Sec. discharge current: 35A = 1260 Watt
  

after the BMS has done its thing, I'd wager.

The most important one is the one you clipped:

• Constant load per cell: approx. 3.7A or 7A in peak load.
  

7 x 3 = 21 Amps peak, 720 W with a 20A controller

3.7 x 3 = 11.1 Amps constant, factor in some loss and you get about 360 W

What makes you think that your present controller is square wave? KT square wave controllers are normally sensorless.

Yosepower are using the sine wave controller, the hubs are sensored with internal wheel speed sensing. The motor cable uses a standard 9 pin wire /colour layout which is universal, you need this hall sensored motor wire with white 6 pin hall block and 3 phase wires.

 

https://www.pandaebikes.com/shop/extras/motor-cable-hall-effect-female-waterproof-male-standard-wiring-panda-eco/

Edited January 3, 20188 yr by Nealh

The YosePower motor has that one Julet plug.

 

Square peg -> round hole?

Does this motor cable look like it will sort your problem?

https://www.pandaebikes.com/shop/extras/motor-cable-hall-effect-female-waterproof-male-standard-wiring-panda-eco/

What makes you think that your present controller is square wave? KT square wave controllers are normally sensorless.

 

The controller from my YosePower kit is labelled "KT36ZWSR-EP01". I have always been interpreting "ZWSR" as square wave and "SVPRD", as in KT36/48SVPRD-17A, as sine wave.

 

I welcome any and all education

Does this motor cable look like it will sort your problem?

https://www.pandaebikes.com/shop/extras/motor-cable-hall-effect-female-waterproof-male-standard-wiring-panda-eco/

 

Yes, that looks perfect - except for the "out of stock" part. Email fired off

The controller from my YosePower kit is labelled "KT36ZWSR-EP01". I have always been interpreting "ZWSR" as square wave and "SVPRD", as in KT36/48SVPRD-17A, as sine wave.

 

I welcome any and all education

 

Both are hall sensor controllers.

 

36ZWSR even states Hall sensor next to the SPEED SET: on the right. Also has the universal 9 pin connector.

Caps are 50v rated so will not except more then 12s @ 4.1v to be safe.

I think all 36v kt start 36ZW.

 

36/48 SVPRD is dual voltage model with hall but with 3 separate phase wires and 6 wire hall block.

Caps are 63v rated so will except 13s 48v quite easily.

 

Square wave only have 3 thick phase wires and no thin halls.

Trying to interpret the controller letter coding after the voltage number is all but impossible impossible to guess what they mean.

All you need to guide you as to their suitability for hub motor use is the legend /description or a view of the motor wiring.,

Both are hall sensor controllers.

 

I now need further education, please, to help me assess the differences between controllers with the respective labels

• KT36ZWSR-EP01
  
• KT36/48SVRPD-[blacked out]
  

I was hoping that switching to the "KT36/48SVRPD-[blacked out]" controller would yield the following benefits, in order of importance to me:

• sine wave phase power (instead of square wave phase power), resulting in
  
  • improved start-up performance
    
  • more silent operation
    
  • improved energy efficiency
    

  [*]48V (13s battery pack) as an additional option to play with, opening up the potential for

  • 33% more energy delivered into the motor
    
  • 15%(?) increase in top-speed in the flats (highly dependent on areodynamics)
    

  [*]17A peak current instead of 15A peak current, so

  • +13% energy - 612W @ 36V
    
  • +50% energy - 816W @ 48V / 20%(?) increase in top-speed
    

Given my first impressions, I'd not be all that interested in the additional power and top-speed any more. I'd still be very interested in less noise and more efficiency.

 

My (probably wrong) understanding of sine wave vs square wave is that, literally, the shape of the wave form is different - sine wave being a sine wave, square shape being boxy. The hall sensors would then be used to align the wave form with the rotational position of the motor, over the course of time.

Hall sensor wiring 8 or 9 /wires = sinewave

No hall sensor 3 wires only = square wave.

 

Both controllers are hall sensor & sine wave both give quieter smother operation the only difference is 15a one is for 36v though can be used up to 12s with max 4.15v max cell charge to be on the safe side 4.1v, it has waterproof easy fit wiring.

17a version is a dual voltage model so can be used with 36 or 48v even to the point of using trying up to 15s to a point if so wished.

 

If the requirement is to use 36v and in need of a few more amps/watts then a simple shunt mod on the 15a controller can increase power output by another 25 or 30% if required.

 

I

36v will always be more efficient than 48v for the same motor - if that's your goal. 48v gives ore power and speed. You will get a real life improvement of 30% more speed, and around 50% increase in climbing torque (depending on speed) because of the additional current.

Yes, that looks perfect - except for the "out of stock" part. Email fired off

 

For the benefit of the community: I got a response quickly (kudos!), but it seems as if this specific adapter cable will not be available going forward.

Anyone know what these yosepower motors weigh? Hopefully less than 3kg.

The net weight of the motor seems to be about 2.8 kg. Rim and spokes add ... a lot ... to the package. It seems much could be gained by tweaking those components.

Would there be a way to run the Yosepower kit without the display?

 

The larger Kunteng controllers can be wired up in a fashion that they are always on(?), operate without display, and drive on PAS alone, from whatever setting was last made through the display. (http://www.pswpower.com/upfile/dtpic/2016/3F/43TE.50CTN/4439TR_H3H8U.jpg)

 

Now, the Yosepower Kunteng controller has one (water-proof) plug, and eight pins. I'd speculate that these eight pins are

1. GND (serving display, brake, throttle)
   
2. display RX
   
3. display TX
   
4. display positive battery
   
5. display ignition lock
   
6. +5V (serving brake, throttle)
   
7. throttle signal
   
8. brake signal
   

So, in theory, one could cut in half that extension cable coming with the Yosepower kit, then out of the eight cables above, bridge the pins/cables

• "display positive battery" and "display ignition lock"
  
• GND and "display RX"
  

as per the full Kunteng controller instructions?

 

I am trying to remove the display from the handlebar (and stuffing it into a bag, all wired up, doesn't feel right). This then would only leave a cable to the PAS and the motor.

When I ran without the display, I wired the Tx to Rx and red (battery) to blue (switched controller supply).