This one:

 

I have to admit that it is expensive (70-80€) and you can not repair it.

 

Needs 6V to 36V. Power consumption in standby is 0W (exactly zero), power consumption in action is around 1.5W. It's not as load as a car horn, but imho load enough.

 

E number for speed pedelecs. I own one, but had no time to mount it. (a bit more complicated on my bike than I thought)

 

Can we have a link to the b+m horn please?

 

Here you are, from a mere Englishman:

 

B & M horn

 

N.B. Crossed with Cephalotus post above.

.

I'm sure my Bosch battery is marked Made in Poland, and someone said the motors are made in France.

 

Not that it's so important, although the only bit I've had conk out on any of my three Bosch bikes is the Chinese made thumbswitch.

 

Quality components, properly assembled is all that's needed.

 

The premium German brands are good at that.

 

It comes down to what you value.

 

I would rather pay slightly more for a slightly better overall product, which is what you get with the likes of Riese and Muller.

 

Some buyers are very price sensitive.

 

We all make our choices.

In my experience having spent big on ebikes they have generally been reliable but its the little things that have spoiled it for me. Specifically the small chrome bits that went rusty within 4 months on a £4000 Scott bike!

And about RM bikes which feature heavily in this thread.. I like the ideas they bring and fancy trying one with a view to purchase, which is fine if I can find someone that sells them! I have visited all the bike shops near me and none had even heard of them let alone get one to show me, so, doing a dealer search shows me two at around 50 miles and one at 150 miles away but RTB warranties make this a 100/300 miles round trip for any problems I cant fix myself which has to be taken into consideration.

Which gets my Sunday afternoon rant out of the way...

Here you are, from a mere Englishman:

 

B & M horn

 

N.B. Crossed with Cephalotus post above.

.

 

Good man!

 

Right, I'm having one of those! I will have to lengthen the wire to reach my handlebar though. Lets hope that it likes 49.8v as much as the b+m headlight does...

He did try repeatedly to produce e-bike motors and an e-bike, all three useless like almost everything he ever produced.

 

They were the Zeta 1 friction drive on tyre front motor, the Zeta 2 being almost the same thing but mounted on the back wheel and just as useless, and the failed Zike e-bike.

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Producing pedal cars for executives to use in London, wasn't the best use of grey matter IMO.

And those bikes use Bosch electrical parts. It's the electrical parts that give the most reliability issues apart from the accelerated wear and tear on the drive train. Did the Riese and Muller engineers didn't change them to make them any more reliable than any other Bosch bike? Is there a special R&M bearing or seal behind the drive sprocket to stop water getting in?

 

Bosch parts are made in China, and have the same kind of manufacturing quality issues as many other parts.

 

When did anybody ever have a non-electrical problem with a Kudos bike? AFAICS, build quality isn't really an issue on bikes from any of the established brands.

 

Bosch parts are engineered and designed in Germany. ( The clever bit ) like Astras designed and engineered in Germany. Just assembled in the UK like ebikes in China.

 

Assembly, doesn't reflect the component quality which is German.

Bosch parts are engineered and designed in Germany. ( The clever bit ) like Astras designed and engineered in Germany. Just assembled in the UK like ebikes in China.

 

Assembly, doesn't reflect the component quality which is German.

Quality is whether thing works or not - nothing to do with who designed or made it. According to the pedelecmonitor database, you're less likely to get a problem with a Chinese hub-motor than anything by Bosch made/designed in Germany:

https://pedelecmonitor.wordpress.com/mittelmotoren/nabenmotoren/

Quality is whether thing works or not - nothing to do with who designed or made it. According to the pedelecmonitor database, you're less likely to get a problem with a Chinese hub-motor than anything by Bosch made/designed in Germany:

https://pedelecmonitor.wordpress.com/mittelmotoren/nabenmotoren/

 

I have read on many surveys just the opposite, Bosch vs Chinese goods...

 

IMO, Design and workmanship are the reasons something has quality. Chinese copy and make it cheap. I have had two Chinese motors fall apart.

I have read on many surveys just the opposite, Bosch vs Chinese goods...

Can you show us a survey with actual data that backs that up? The Pedelecmonitor uses data from actual users, and it's German!

 

I was a quality specialist for 20 years and I made most of my money in Germany showing them where they had gone wrong and how to do it right. That's showing them, not telling them. I have a pretty good handle on how it works there.

 

The Chinese have changed from the methods they used 10 years ago. The big manufacturers have now adopted modern quality control systems and techniques. It's the same as what happened in Japan in the '70s. They not only took the best systems and techniques available, but improved on them and used them with a vengeance that left everybody else dead in the water.

 

Just to balance your Chinese failures, I've been using their motors for 8 years and done around 16,000 miles. I've never had a single issue with any hub-motor and I had one problem on a crank motor where an external sprocket snapped after I doubled the allowed power and tried to drive away in top gear with my new found torque. A replacement sprocket was about £8.

 

You must be very unlucky because in the last three years, I've never heard on this forum of any motor failure that could be described as falling apart. I can remember about 5 years ago, a guy had a side-plate that came loose and I've seen some worn gears on very old motors, but I must admit that I'm struggling with "fell apart". Can you explain further with more details. I'm intrigued.

Both Chinese motors had component failure. Friends from cycling clubs have noticed the quality when switching to Bosch and Yamaha.

I do not doubt your experiences, but equally nor the people I have had direct contact with or indeed my own.

German manufacturing is consistent with quality, whilst Chinese goods focus on cost.

I prefer reliability.

Both Chinese motors had component failure. Friends from cycling clubs have noticed the quality when switching to Bosch and Yamaha.

I do not doubt your experiences, but equally nor the people I have had direct contact with or indeed my own.

German manufacturing is consistent with quality, whilst Chinese goods focus on cost.

I prefer reliability.

Sorry, my experience is the opposite.

I have two Chinese bikes and they have performed well.

The TONARO, now 7 years old needed a new sprag clutch this year.

The Woosh gale (5 years) a hub motor just motors on, no problems.

If anything does go wrong with a Chinese bike you can easily and cheaply repair it yourself.

Also, I just don't get this 'Quality thing'

Either things work flawlessly or they don't.

I have never had a problem with Chinese quality, so what is so special about German quality?

Sorry, my experience is the opposite.

I have two Chinese bikes and they have performed well.

The TONARO, now 7 years old needed a new sprag clutch this year.

The Woosh gale (5 years) a hub motor just motors on, no problems.

If anything does go wrong with a Chinese bike you can easily and cheaply repair it yourself.

Also, I just don't get this 'Quality thing'

Either things work flawlessly or they don't.

I have never had a problem with Chinese quality, so what is so special about German quality?

Well, if it's a Bosch then you can't fix it! Not officially anyways..

Well, if it's a Bosch then you can't fix it! Not officially anyways..

Bit like the TV repairmen that used to call around fixing British TVs. Fidelity,Ferguson, Baird etc loads of cheap spares unlike the new Japanese TVs which were expensive to fix.

 

But you didn't need repairs for the Japanese sets.

Bit like the TV repairmen that used to call around fixing British TVs. Fidelity,Ferguson, Baird etc loads of cheap spares unlike the new Japanese TVs which were expensive to fix.

 

But you didn't need repairs for the Japanese sets.

I should have thought of that when my bearings went...

I should have thought of that when my bearings went...[/quote

 

Nothing is infallible. But we are talking generally.

Did you have a look at Pedelecmonitor? That's real data about reliability.

Did you have a look at Pedelecmonitor? That's real data about reliability.

 

Many compilations of data. The data that matches ones opinion is usually favoured;)

Well generally speaking it was a small and inexpensive part faliur that needed a complete new motor which wasnt cheap.

Many compilations of data. The data that matches ones opinion is usually favoured;)

I asked, could you show me another database that shows another picture? I didn't choose that one because it matched my opinion. I've never seen another one to choose.

 

It seems to me that you're in some sort of denial by trying to ignore a completely open and independent public database of ebike reliability info.

Every now and again we hear of a Chinese 'no name' bike which looks the business and several people buy.

 

I wonder what happens to these 'bargains' after the first few weeks of use.

 

The last one - the name of which I forget - had a Bafang crank motor.

 

While the law of diminishing returns certainly applies, you get what you pay for.

 

The £2,000+ bike is a better, more reliable, and nicer machine than the £1,000 one.

 

Denying that is just plain daft.

Every now and again we hear of a Chinese 'no name' bike which looks the business and several people buy.

 

I wonder what happens to these 'bargains' after the first few weeks of use.

 

The last one - the name of which I forget - had a Bafang crank motor.

 

While the law of diminishing returns certainly applies, you get what you pay for.

 

The £2,000+ bike is a better, more reliable, and nicer machine than the £1,000 one.

 

Denying that is just plain daft.

Its all down to what you are prepared to pay. In my case in 2013 a £3000 Bosch powered Scott lasted 3 years and then with a new motor required it became more or less worthless overnight. On the other hand and for the same money I could have bought a decent hub powered Chinese bike for £1000, given it away and replaced it yearly with another brand new one for the 3 years I owned the Scott for the same money. Bosch wouldn't offer spares and would only swap a motor through a dealer so it cost me around £250 to £300 to get it repaired so I could then sell it with a clear conscience for £600

This was disappointing but it is just how life is.. Just to be clear.. I am now riding another Scott/Bosch bike and my next bike will be a RM/Bosch bike and have zero experience of Chinese hub bikes so cant really comment on their reliability or use.

Its all down to what you are prepared to pay. In my case in 2013 a £3000 Bosch powered Scott lasted 3 years and then with a new motor required it became more or less worthless overnight. On the other hand and for the same money I could have bought a decent hub powered Chinese bike for £1000, given it away and replaced it yearly with another brand new one for the 3 years I owned the Scott for the same money. Bosch wouldn't offer spares and would only swap a motor through a dealer so it cost me around £250 to £300 to get it repaired so I could then sell it with a clear conscience for £600

This was disappointing but it is just how life is.. Just to be clear.. I am now riding another Scott/Bosch bike and my next bike will be a RM/Bosch bike and have zero experience of Chinese hub bikes so cant really comment on their reliability or use.

If you can get a new motor fitted to a Bosch for £300 I am impressed.

A new motor for my TONARO cost £300 (Motor and gearbox, Chinese tax, courier and UK Customs duty)

have zero experience of Chinese hub bikes so cant really comment on their reliability or use.

 

I've owned two Ezee models, both Chinese made hub motor e-bikes, one of them for twelve years since 2006. I don't know its total mileage having stopped keeping records long ago, but its probably well over 10,000 miles. In one new type battery test for the manufacturer I covered 3784 miles in six months treating it quite cruelly, story on this link.

 

It was also used to tow heavily loaded trailers every week in my hilly North Downs area, doing neighbourhood recycling, .jpg']sample photo. For many years it was my shopping bike. Other than new batteries, no part of it has ever failed, the only wear replacements being the usual ones of brake pads and tyres, the electrics including the Bafang motor have performed perfectly.

 

With the possible exception of some Heinzmann kit motors, nothing in the e-bike world that has come out of Germany over the same period has come near to this reliability.

.

If you can get a new motor fitted to a Bosch for £300 I am impressed.

A new motor for my TONARO cost £300 (Motor and gearbox, Chinese tax, courier and UK Customs duty)

This was an earlier classic version which had long since been superseded and ilkley cycles said they would do it at cost.. me being a regular customer an all..

My four hubs have given very little issue apart from the odd new bearing (easy to replace) and a bit of grease at the same time, certainly less grief then the BBS 01 or the GSM have given me. Though expect the GSM with external controller would be better and not have any issues.

 

China kits are easy if it's not a relatively simple bearing issue, then external controllers are easy to swap out for £30 or £40. The only other real issue often battery related.

 

Can't say much about the closed market of Bosch,Yamaha or steps as I won't be induced in to being tied and left basically high and dry after 2 or 3 year warranty ends with an issue that can't be easily repaired at a sensible price.

Edited April 11, 20188 yr by Nealh