Lets say you get a bike with a 250w motor limited to 15mph and tune it deristrict the speed it can go, so it can go till 25mph. And there is another bike with a 500w motor that can go approximately the same speed when unrestricted, 25mph.

 

Is this roughly the samething? I seem to remember being told something to this effect. Do they have roughtly the same power and omph? I seem to believe the controller is responsible for the wattage of motor? Or something like that.

 

Thinking of getting a Haibike Sduro hardnose 7.0 and delimit it, or a 500w motor bike off Amazon.

I'm no expert and use the forum for information, but if you don't have a motor rated at 250 Watt with the rating stamped on it, I understand it's not road legal.

a 250w ebike motor can put out way more power than 250w under the 15mph limit why you can climb hills so easy so using more around 7-800w from the motor.

 

if you use a dongle to remove the speed limit it gives you no extra power at all and just removes the speed limit.

 

in full power assist mode this will half the range of the batt but you can use a lower power assist mode to get some range back.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onAUrtwA_Ks:155

I'm no expert and use the forum for information, but if you don't have a motor rated at 250 Watt with the rating stamped on it, I understand it's not road legal.

Neither is delimiting a 250 watt one.

You might not get 25mph out of a derestricted 250W bike.

 

You'd be unable to insure both the derestricted 250W bike and the 500W bike.

a 250w ebike motor can put out way more power than 250w under the 15mph limit why you can climb hills so easy so using more around 7-800w from the motor.

 

if you use a dongle to remove the speed limit it gives you no extra power at all and just removes the speed limit.

 

in full power assist mode this will half the range of the batt but you can use a lower power assist mode to get some range back.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onAUrtwA_Ks:155

 

Right, right thanks for this. This is what I wanted to know.

 

There seem to be quite a few made in Britain bikes that have off road and on the road capabilities. On the road can be 250w and 15.5 mph, and then with one switch of the button can got to 1000w and up to 35 mph, but I would never want to go that fast of course.

 

I think that will be best for me. Fully legal, can be insured, and I can just give it extra power anytime I feel I need that. Dunno why i just want to have the option to go up to 500w.

 

There are 1000w options too, but that just seems like overkill.

my bike can go 35mph at max effort on the flat i just like to go fast down hill but any bike with a off road switch or dongle is not road legal on or off road unless you own the land or have permission from the owner.

 

if you dont kill anyone you wont have a problem but it is a risk.

There seem to be quite a few made in Britain bikes that have off road and on the road capabilities. On the road can be 250w and 15.5 mph, and then with one switch of the button can got to 1000w and up to 35 mph, but I would never want to go that fast of course.

The ability to switch to higher power and speed would make the bike illegal to use, even when it's used on the roads in 250W and 15.5mph mode. Plus it would be uninsurable.

The ability to switch to higher power and speed would make the bike illegal to use, even when it's used on the roads in 250W and 15.5mph mode. Plus it would be uninsurable.

 

GoCycles are illegal? VanMoof are illegal? GoCycles are sold by pretty much all the majory cycle dealers in London.

 

And I know they can be insured. I've inquired because i was going to get one.

 

Both those cycles and tons of others can be easily switched to 500w 20mph mode through the app.

Edited January 27, 20206 yr by nabs

any bike that lets you remove the speed limit via the controller/display or fitting a dongle like on bosch bikes is not road legal if you want to insure it.

 

i have a dongle on my bosch bike and never had a problem

Just because you can get insurance for an e-bike doesn't mean it is road legal as a pedelec, some will need to be SVA'd & reg'd in the light moped class. And certainly aren't allowed on paths or on off road routes except for byways where permission is allowed.

Edited January 27, 20206 yr by Nealh

Both those cycles and tons of others can be easily switched to 500w 20mph mode through the app.

Yep, they are illegal.

 

There are plenty of shops selling electric scooters even though they are illegal to use on our roads, pavements, footpaths and bridleways.

 

There are lots of people out there bending the rules to get your money, be careful not to get conned.

Yep, they are illegal.

 

There are plenty of shops selling electric scooters even though they are illegal to use on our roads, pavements, footpaths and bridleways.

 

There are lots of people out there bending the rules to get your money, be careful not to get conned.

 

Not plenty. Pretty much all of them. Van Moof have a huge shop in central London.

 

Every single big cycle dealer sells GoCycles. All the big ones Halfords, FullyCharged. They all provide insurance for GoCyle as well.

 

Just seems hard to believe all Bicycle dealers and shops are all lying and all conning all the potential customers in the UK. In practice, it doesn't seem like these bikes are an issue, and can be insured and in practice are legal.

 

We have GoCycle threads on this site, can't see a single mention of anyone saying they have issues with the law or insurance.

 

Just seems like practical reality doesn't really line up with the what you guys are saying. And I'm not interested in theoritical rules or technical rules that don't matter, just in reality.

 

It doesn't matter if theoritically they can't be insured, when in reality they can be. Is there any concrete evidence that GoCycles are not able to be insured?

Edited January 28, 20206 yr by nabs

Not plenty. Pretty much all of them. Van Moof have a huge shop in central London.

 

Every single big cycle dealer sells GoCycles. All the big ones Halfords, FullyCharged. They all provide insurance for GoCyle as well.

 

Just seems hard to believe all Bicycle dealers and shops are all lying and all conning all the potential customers in the UK. In practice, it doesn't seem like these bikes are an issue, and can be insured and in practice are legal.

 

We have GoCycle threads on this site, can't see a single mention of anyone saying they have issues with the law or insurance.

 

Just seems like practical reality doesn't really line up with the what you guys are saying. And I'm not interested in theoritical rules or technical rules that don't matter, just in reality.

 

It doesn't matter if theoritically they can't be insured, when in reality they can be. Is there any concrete evidence that GoCycles are not able to be insured?

I have no idea whether you can insure them or not, but they are definitely illegal, (as is any other e-bike that exceeds 250 watts, or 15.5 mph).

No one's saying you can't have one, just pointing out the risks.

Not plenty. Pretty much all of them. Van Moof have a huge shop in central London.

 

Every single big cycle dealer sells GoCycles. All the big ones Halfords, FullyCharged. They all provide insurance for GoCyle as well.

 

Just seems hard to believe all Bicycle dealers and shops are all lying and all conning all the potential customers in the UK. In practice, it doesn't seem like these bikes are an issue, and can be insured and in practice are legal.

 

We have GoCycle threads on this site, can't see a single mention of anyone saying they have issues with the law or insurance.

 

Just seems like practical reality doesn't really line up with the what you guys are saying. And I'm not interested in theoritical rules or technical rules that don't matter, just in reality.

 

It doesn't matter if theoritically they can't be insured, when in reality they can be. Is there any concrete evidence that GoCycles are not able to be insured?

We're just pointing out the law of the land, don't shoot the messengers. What's a "theoritical rule" by the way?

 

Just looked at the gocycle website:

https://gocycle.com/models/gocycle-g3c/

 

where is says regarding maximum speed:

"****Electric bicycle speed regulations vary by country—consult your local authority for information."

 

and regarding motor power:

"*****Electric bicycle motor regulations vary by country—consult your local authority for information. "

Not plenty. Pretty much all of them. Van Moof have a huge shop in central London.

 

Every single big cycle dealer sells GoCycles. All the big ones Halfords, FullyCharged. They all provide insurance for GoCyle as well.

 

Just seems hard to believe all Bicycle dealers and shops are all lying and all conning all the potential customers in the UK. In practice, it doesn't seem like these bikes are an issue, and can be insured and in practice are legal.

 

We have GoCycle threads on this site, can't see a single mention of anyone saying they have issues with the law or insurance.

 

Just seems like practical reality doesn't really line up with the what you guys are saying. And I'm not interested in theoritical rules or technical rules that don't matter, just in reality.

 

It doesn't matter if theoritically they can't be insured, when in reality they can be. Is there any concrete evidence that GoCycles are not able to be insured?

 

Its not illegal for shops to to sell them* - but it would be for them to be ridden in public without registering, helmet no plate etc.

 

*E-scooters, hoverboards Segways

 

"electric scooters fall within the legal definition of a "motor vehicle", which means they cannot be used on public roads without meeting a number of requirements, which include conforming to technical standards and being subject to driver testing."

 

Electric bicycles

 

"People do not need a licence to ride one and the bike does not need to be registered, taxed or insured, but the bike's maximum power must not exceed 250 watts and its electric motor should not propel the bike when it is travelling at more than 15.5mph."

I have no idea whether you can insure them or not, but they are definitely illegal, (as is any other e-bike that exceeds 250 watts, or 15.5 mph).

No one's saying you can't have one, just pointing out the risks.

 

But you can insure them. On electricbikereview.co.uk there are users who have claimed money for their insured stolen GoCycles.

 

So you can indeed insure them. And there are people here insisting they cannot be insured. Just seems like in practical reality they are actually legal and can be insured. I think all this is more than worth pointing out to people who are looking for advice.

 

These bikes are insured by its owners all across Britain. And the police is not pulling these people over and throwing them in jail.

Interesting discussion and one that often pops up. As I understand you can insure anything providing it's legal to own in the first place. A GoCycle out of the store would be restricted to 15.5 mph as they all are and therefore insurable, if it's modified mechanically or electronically it then becomes illegal so would not be covered by your insurance. As with a motor vehicle it might be capable of travelling at 100 mph+ but you can't legally drive it that fast, you still have to insure it though.

And the police is not pulling these people over and throwing them in jail.

 

Until they screw up

 

Man arrested after woman hurt in London e-bike collision

 

London e-bike rider in court accused of causing death of pedestrian by dangerous driving

 

Nathan Rasiah, prosecuting, told the court: “In this case the evidence suggests it was travelling in excess of the road limit and the limit for the bike.

But you can insure them. On electricbikereview.co.uk there are users who have claimed money for their insured stolen GoCycles.

 

So you can indeed insure them. And there are people here insisting they cannot be insured. Just seems like in practical reality they are actually legal and can be insured. I think all this is more than worth pointing out to people who are looking for advice.

 

These bikes are insured by its owners all across Britain. And the police is not pulling these people over and throwing them in jail.

No, but they might if you killed or injured someone while riding it.

We're just pointing out the law of the land, don't shoot the messengers. What's a "theoritical rule" by the way?

 

Just looked at the gocycle website:

https://gocycle.com/models/gocycle-g3c/

 

where is says regarding maximum speed:

"****Electric bicycle speed regulations vary by country—consult your local authority for information."

 

and regarding motor power:

"*****Electric bicycle motor regulations vary by country—consult your local authority for information. "

 

Theoritical as in not practical reality. People can buy these bikes, they can insure them, and they are not being pulled over or getting in trouble for riding them. Practically speaking there is no issue at all.

 

I think we all know the 250w rule. But its a fact these cycles are being insured without issues.

 

Poiting out the rules is fine if you give the correct disclaimers, but saying they cannot be insured just does not seem to be right.

Theoritical as in not practical reality. People can buy these bikes, they can insure them, and they are not being pulled over or getting in trouble for riding them. Practically speaking there is no issue at all.

 

I think we all know the 250w rule. But its a fact these cycles are being insured without issues.

 

Poiting out the rules is fine if you give the correct disclaimers, but saying they cannot be insured just does not seem to be right.

Once bikes are derestricted they become illegal to use and any insurance would be invalid.

 

I've Googled "Theoritical" but it didn't help, I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Until they screw up

 

Man arrested after woman hurt in London e-bike collision

 

London e-bike rider in court accused of causing death of pedestrian by dangerous driving

 

Nathan Rasiah, prosecuting, told the court: “In this case the evidence suggests it was travelling in excess of the road limit and the limit for the bike.

 

This is a completely different situation. He was arrested for going over the speed and power limit, not for riding a 250w motor bike on the road that could switch to a 500w bike off road.

 

Situation is not really relevant.

Edited January 28, 20206 yr by nabs

Just seems hard to believe all Bicycle dealers and shops are all lying and all conning all the potential customers in the UK.

 

That are not lying since the bikes are supplied in a legal pedelec state. But when their software is used to increase power or speed above pedelec limits, they become illegal to ride unless type approved, registered and number plated as motor vehicles.

 

The problem arises on how the law is interpreted. The DfT states that any use of an "off road" button to increase power or speed is strictly illegal, so it depends on whether pressing buttons on the bike or via an app constitutes an "off road" button in the law they've made. Only a senior law court can determine that, so until a test case is held it's like "Schrodinger's cat", both legal and illegal at the same time.

 

Here's some legal detail, first the exemption from being a motor vehicle:

 

"pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h"

 

Now what the DfT who make the law actually say:

 

"The use of an "Off Road Button" however is strictly forbidden now and is specifically mentioned in documents apertaining to new and existing guidelines."

 

So the question for the court is, "Does the bike being equipped in a way that the rider can opt to break the law make the bike illegal as a pedelec".

.

Edited January 28, 20206 yr by flecc

you could insure it for theft but not for liability insurance if you killed someone on it as wont be covered as would be classed as a motor bike and would need to be registered as such.

 

any bike that has the ability to change the speed and power settings is classed as a of road switch even if the motor is only 250w.