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scooters

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Only certain city's will be trialling them so every where else they will be easily identified as illegal.

and no action taken just like now.

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I’m a little confused. So, I can hire an e scooter and do the maximum speed as allowed for e bikes but whilst I don’t have to pedal a scooter, I will still have to pedal my bike? Have I got tbis right?

 

But these scooters under the trial, require insurance and a license by law while E Bikes do not.

 

Riders will need a full or provisional car, motorcycle or moped licence to use the vehicles, and they must be aged 16 or over.

Do you want the Legal allowing of non pedalling throttle E Bike riding, in return

for the above requirement?

 

 

During trials, however, e-scooters will continue to be classed as motor vehicles, meaning requirements to have insurance and the correct type of driving licence will continue to apply. In the future, following trials, we may look to amend the law to treat e-scooters more like EAPCs, which are not treated as ‘motor vehicles’ in law.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-local-areas-and-rental-operators/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-local-areas-and-rental-operators#eligibility-and-dft-trial-requirements

Edited by PP100

Only certain city's will be trialling them so every where else they will be easily identified as illegal.

Good luck with that in London, where they were already easily identified as illegal but that didn't seem to stop them.

Though I did once see a copper giving a gentle talking to a very young kid who obviously had a scooter he shouldn't have had.

They should crack down and confiscate the under 16s for a start. Get Mummy or Daddy to pay the fine as well.

I have not seen any mention of lights. Can't help thinking they are rather more important than whether they have two or three wheels. Quite obviously, lighting cannot be identical to bicycle lights. (A pair of rear wheels seems a very reasonable approach to designing an e-scooter.)

I have not seen any mention of lights. Can't help thinking they are rather more important than whether they have two or three wheels. Quite obviously, lighting cannot be identical to bicycle lights. (A pair of rear wheels seems a very reasonable approach to designing an e-scooter.)

that operators use automatic vehicle lights where possible

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-local-areas-and-rental-operators/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-local-areas-and-rental-operators#eligibility-and-dft-trial-requirements

The radio/media are equally as bad as the rag/media at not getting the true facts before reporting, again the 15.5mph limit is fake news and you are as bad as the press by not doing your homework.

 

Gov't have stated 12.5mph is the limit. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/legalising-rental-e-scooter-trials-defining-e-scooters-and-rules-for-their-use/legalising-rental-e-scooter-trials.

 

Not fake news Neale, it's the government geting in a twist again,

 

On the same day as your link, 30/6/20 they published this for the rental operators on the trial:

 

" 3.1 Vehicle design: current position

 

An e-scooter will continue to fall within the statutory definition of a motor vehicle. We will define the sub-category of an e-scooter as being a motor vehicle that:

 

  • is fitted with an electric motor with a power limit of 500W
  • has 2 wheels, 1 front and 1 rear, aligned along the direction of travel
  • is designed to carry one person in a standing position with no provision for seating
  • has a maximum weight of 55kg
  • has a maximum design speed of 15.5mph

On this link.

.

Must have read right past that!

 

No you didn't, you were right.

 

See my post just above.

.

Edited by flecc

and how long do we have to wait before the first e-scooter being used on a pavement injurers a pedestrian

 

because - good luck riding you escooter along a road with even minor potholes - so clearly you will just use the pavement

 

I just hope it doesn't result in a backlash against all e-thingies - like ebikes

Slap on a bird sticker on your privately owned scooter how's anyone going to know. Any info on how to become a hire company or are only american company's allowed in on the action.

Not fake news Neale, it's the government geting in a twist again,

 

On the same day as your link, 30/6/20 they published this for the rental operators on the trial:

 

" 3.1 Vehicle design: current position

 

An e-scooter will continue to fall within the statutory definition of a motor vehicle. We will define the sub-category of an e-scooter as being a motor vehicle that:

 

  • is fitted with an electric motor with a power limit of 500W
  • has 2 wheels, 1 front and 1 rear, aligned along the direction of travel
  • is designed to carry one person in a standing position with no provision for seating
  • has a maximum weight of 55kg
  • has a maximum design speed of 15.5mph

On this link.

.

 

How come they can have a 500W limit? We all know that "rated power" is meaningless and these things will come with "rated power" of 500W, but an actual output more than double that.

 

55Kg...that's huge, the original UK 1983 ebike law specified a max of 40kg...

 

I can't see how they can say it's safe for scooters to travel at 15.5 mph, when they have tiny wheels and are far more likely to come to grief than an e-bike.

 

Can we argue that e-bikes should now have their power limit raised and speed limit raised to 20mph?

I think pedelec power should be 350w as that is what most basic hub motors are rated at, though you can get 250w marked ones they will be inherently the same motor with a different sticker to keep different legislators happy.

The likes of the mid drive producers is one fudge as know one really knows there true output that they say they are 250w, original 40Nm motors on these bikes now claiming up to or more then 100Nm. That extra torque/power doesn't come from thin air.

Even at 250w we know up to 1000w output can be had but it is at the expense of battery range and the power that a battery can supply, with most only being mediocre batteries which won't last more then two years before decline is noticed.

 

Speed doesn't need changing if you want 20mph pedal for it as a push biker will.

How come they can have a 500W limit? We all know that "rated power" is meaningless and these things will come with "rated power" of 500W, but an actual output more than double that.

 

55Kg...that's huge, the original UK 1983 ebike law specified a max of 40kg...

 

I can't see how they can say it's safe for scooters to travel at 15.5 mph, when they have tiny wheels and are far more likely to come to grief than an e-bike.

 

Can we argue that e-bikes should now have their power limit raised and speed limit raised to 20mph?

 

This has nothing to do with rational decisions, it's politics.

 

With Brexit we've put ourselves in the position of needing a US trade deal, and the US farmers who their government want to help, want to flog us their sub standard foods. But the British public are making that too awkward to accept.

 

Meanwhile the US scooter firms have been pushing hard for us to accept their scooter hire companies, so our government sees that as a way to show we aren't being unco-operative. So they are willing to accept the US status quo for the trials regarding weights, speeds and powers.

 

But these are not the final position on scooter law. For that the government are holding a public consultation, and the more moderate proposals for that are in the link Nealh posted. The link Wheezy Rider quotes from is only for the trial numbers, hence the two conflicting versions published by the government on the same day.

.

Don't know why they are surprised at the 15mph limit for scooters since that is the E bike limit and why they thought scooters would be limited to "near walking pace" , though the current requirement for a driving licence to use them in the trial is stupid and counter productive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53253194

Possibly the req to have a driving licence is to ensure the potential users have at some point read the Highway Code and have something to lose if they are caught doing anything daft.

 

I think they certainly could help lessen dependancy on cars etc for youngsters but how easy & safely they fit into the existing eco-system of existing vehicles and road systems seems dubious.

 

Don't know why they are surprised at the 15mph limit for scooters since that is the E bike limit and why they thought scooters would be limited to "near walking pace"

 

They didn't say that, they said they were hoping that they would be limited to near walking pace but to an absolute maximum of 12.5 mph". That's because the government had said that's the speed limit they'd prefer in any future law.

 

There is no law for scooters at present, this is just a trial and the 15.5 mph is just a legally acceptable figure for that trial to suit the companies involved.

 

though the current requirement for a driving licence to use them in the trial is stupid and counter productive.

 

But necessary rather than stupid. In law powered scooters are motor vehicles and therefore can only be ridden on roads with a driving licence.

.

Possibly the req to have a driving licence is to ensure the potential users have at some point read the Highway Code and have something to lose if they are caught doing anything daft.

 

The requirement is simply that it's the law, see my post above.

.

I've seen a few reports already of young people being "mugged" for their scooters, makes a change from Nike's I suppose.

They didn't say that, they said they were hoping that they would be limited to near walking pace but to an absolute maximum of 12.5 mph". That's because the government had said that's the speed limit they'd prefer in any future law.

.

Who walks at 12ph/h apart from Olympic athletes? Normal walking pace is about 3/4 mph. Either you limit it to walking pace or you don't. "limiting " is the same as "absolute maximum" .Their expectation was contradictory.

I take the point about driving licences for the trial period (which is going to be a whole 12 months!) but that will not be useful if they want to expand in the future to non drivers.

Edited by PP100

Who walks at 12ph/h apart from Olympic athletes? Normal walking pace is about 3/4 mph. Either you limit it to walking pace or you don't. Their expectation was contradictory.

 

They know just as well as us that many riders will take to the pavements regardless of the law, so they were hoping for a more moderate speed limit. Many countries have intermediate speed limits for pavements, for example in Japanese cities where it's often compulsory for bikes to switch to the pavements in congested areas, there's an 8 mph speed limit then.

 

I take the point about driving licences for the trial period (which is going to be a whole 12 months!) but that will not be useful if they want to expand in the future to non drivers.

 

As I implied, this is only for the trial at present, so we need to be patient. After the consultation and the trial outcomes they could make new laws to suit. There is already a precedent for road use much faster than walking without a driving licence or displaying a number plate, mobility vehicles.

 

They are restricted to 4 mph on pavements, but faster ones when used on the roads are allowed 8 mph.

 

Similarly the government could make a law for road use of scooters allowing a higher speed, and the government we know favours 12.5 mph because that (20kph) is already what is allowed in some other European countries.

.

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