The bearings can I think be added without opening the case, at least two of the three. I plan to do just this but no time before holiday. Sooner or later you will need to open the case for maintenance, depending on your supplier, they may or may not still honour the warranty. Given that a degree of maintenance is required then I think reputable suppliers will support you so long as you don't do anything stupid. My supplier suggested I replace the blue gear and supplied one under warranty so I'm guessing they are ok with me opening the case.

I bought mine from PSW Power simply because I am on a tight budget, I have two bikes to convert and their price was the best I could find for both the motor and the battery. I contacted them after placing my order with concerns about the measurements given for the battery. They were very courteous, sent me what I needed and offered to change the battery if it didn't suit. they also gave me permission to open the packaging and test fit it to see if I could make it fit.

 

I think given that it is a Samsung battery and it is the cheapest one I could find in 48v, I'll figure something out with it. I will certainly look at adding those bearings. It's a cheap bit of peace of mind and a very good idea. I believe there is a particular brand of expensive grease that is preferred for the motors too. I'll have to look into that as well.

 

Thanks again,

 

AJ

Edited May 5, 20232 yr by AJ_P

I need to chang my gearing, but a lot depends on your hills. I regularly need to climb long 16% hills so my current 28t cassette and stock chainring are a bit too highly geared. I only currently have 7 speed. I'm 1st going to try a 32t cassette and 36t chainring - that should easily get me up those hills. I don't particularly feel a need to tackle the really steep local hill which is a sustained 25% killer...

I'm not particularly well versed on road gradients and without that experience I cannot tell you what gradients I ride on but you show clearly that there are options. I will see how my wife's bike performs and will hopefully find out very soon. I could always strip my own bike down and fit the Tongsheng to it first and try it out with the tagalong etc attached but it has three or four cables running under the bottom bracket which I know are going to be a pain. What exactly to do with them is another area I have yet to research.

 

All the best to you and thank you for taking the time to reply,

 

AJ

There is an oil seal on each side of the spindle. The support bearings are a straight swap for them. No dismantling required.

 

On my properly set up double with ten speed on a road bike with narrow Q-factor I could only really use 8 + 8. The tdsz has a much wider q-f so the chain line is impacted - hence 6 + 6.

 

The tdsz has a bcd of 110mm - so plenty of options for chain ring sizes - I buy used ones from ebay. Best course of action is to try it with what you already have - get experience and then experiment.

 

By the way, I recommend weighted squats for your knees - you might only need to strengthen the supporting muscles and tendons. Orthotic insoles might help straighten your stance and improve your gait.

I have arthritis in my knees and need to pedal enough to build up strength in the area but equally I need to do so without straining too much and damaging myself further in the process which am told is something I must avoid.

I would fit the motor and try the 7 speed before deciding on next move. You may find a bigger cassette (depending on your current cassette) and a single smaller chainring (e.g. 36t) will be sufficient. It will limit your top speed, but I get the impression that's not so important to you?

 

The above is what I am going to try - and you can then try the single chainring on the inside and outside positions to get an idea of how the chainline is if you do decide to go for double chainring setup.

 

I have re-injured my ankle from overdoing the cycling, I had a very nasty sprain and avulsion fracture after a climbing accident 9 months ago and it has not been the same since it's very easy to get over enthusiastic and push too hard...

There is an oil seal on each side of the spindle. The support bearings are a straight swap for them. No dismantling required.

 

That is an improvement then I am going to make as soon as I get the bearings. Is it one extra per side then?

 

On my properly set up double with ten speed on a road bike with narrow Q-factor I could only really use 8 + 8. The tdsz has a much wider q-f so the chain line is impacted - hence 6 + 6.

 

I have to admit I don’t understand what you mean here. Am I correct in thinking that when you say for instance 8 + 8 you mean that you could only avail of 8 out of the ten gears on your cassette on each of your two chain rings i.e. 8 gears using the larger chain ring and 8 gears using the smaller?

 

The tdsz has a bcd of 110mm - so plenty of options for chain ring sizes - I buy used ones from ebay.

 

Plenty of different ones to experiment with for as little money as possible. That’s a good idea!

 

Best course of action is to try it with what you already have - get experience and then experiment.

 

I believe you are correct. See what I’ve got first and build upon that until I get it where I feel it is as good as can be.

 

By the way, I recommend weighted squats for your knees - you might only need to strengthen the supporting muscles and tendons. Orthotic insoles might help straighten your stance and improve your gait.

 

It’s been a problem for quite a few years now but I only recently went to see what was going on with it. Using stairs, getting up off the floor, pulling my boots on, pressing down the clutch in the van etc etc were oftentimes painful and always irritating. If you’ve even seen a giraffe getting a drink then it looks something like that when I really don’t want to have to kneel down. I’ve been doing unweighted squats as directed by the doctor but I’m in line for some physiotherapy as well once I make it to the top of the waiting list. No doubt weights will come into play soon enough. From what I can gather, the muscle wastes away, the kneecaps are no longer locked in place and that’s when the fun begins hence my desire to strengthen up that area and see if it helps.

 

All the best,

 

AJ

I would fit the motor and try the 7 speed before deciding on next move. You may find a bigger cassette (depending on your current cassette) and a single smaller chainring (e.g. 36t) will be sufficient. It will limit your top speed, but I get the impression that's not so important to you?

 

We will never be out on the road with these bikes and there is only so much speed that is practical when rattling over rough forest fire roads. The surface is loose and there are people and dogs just around a blind corner on occasion. I’m 52 years old with a tagalong bike on the back and it’s little rider with my wife cycling alongside so I couldn’t sail on if I wanted to. That’s not to say I mightn’t enjoy a little speed while cycling there alone but as you rightly point out, there are options available. Would you think the TSDZ2B is strong enough with improved gearing to assist in pulling all that weight on hilly paths, or should I simply be looking at something with more torque as a starting point like the Bafang?

 

The above is what I am going to try - and you can then try the single chainring on the inside and outside positions to get an idea of how the chainline is if you do decide to go for double chainring setup.

 

I’m actually quite excited at the possibilities. I know my wife’s bike will be more than adequate for her with the TSDZ2B motor fitted and if she struggles with it, I can change the gearing to suit.

 

I have re-injured my ankle from overdoing the cycling, I had a very nasty sprain and avulsion fracture after a climbing accident 9 months ago and it has not been the same since it's very easy to get over enthusiastic and push too hard...

 

That’s the thing. It is so difficult not to overdo it. A little heat gets into the joint, things loosen up and away we go. Then we spend the next three days hobbling around the place with more damage done. I have friction in one ankle from a bad early childhood sprain and every so often it flares up which is much the same as being welded solid. Little and often is probably the best approach.

 

Thanks very much for your advice. I really do appreciate it.

 

All the best,

 

AJ

We will never be out on the road with these bikes and there is only so much speed that is practical when rattling over rough forest fire roads. The surface is loose and there are people and dogs just around a blind corner on occasion. I’m 52 years old with a tagalong bike on the back and it’s little rider with my wife cycling alongside so I couldn’t sail on if I wanted to. That’s not to say I mightn’t enjoy a little speed while cycling there alone but as you rightly point out, there are options available. Would you think the TSDZ2B is strong enough with improved gearing to assist in pulling all that weight on hilly paths, or should I simply be looking at something with more torque as a starting point like the Bafang?

 

 

 

I’m actually quite excited at the possibilities. I know my wife’s bike will be more than adequate for her with the TSDZ2B motor fitted and if she struggles with it, I can change the gearing to suit.

 

 

 

That’s the thing. It is so difficult not to overdo it. A little heat gets into the joint, things loosen up and away we go. Then we spend the next three days hobbling around the place with more damage done. I have friction in one ankle from a bad early childhood sprain and every so often it flares up which is much the same as being welded solid. Little and often is probably the best approach.

 

Thanks very much for your advice. I really do appreciate it.

 

All the best,

 

AJ

[mention=39091]AJ_P[/mention]

I have been following this thread with interest. I purchased my TSDZ2 about 4 years ago and have been very happy with it. I hadn't been on a bike since my early teenage tears as I spent 33 years in Australia and they had compulsory helmet wearing for all over there. No fun in 38deg, you want some air in your hair. On returning to blighty nearly 10 years ago, I was informed by the lovely Jane that She would not be happy with me bringing my motorbike or buying a new one over here with the heavier traffic in Bournemouth/Poole. So I compromised for the sake of my marriage and a peaceful life to aquiesce and thought about an electric bike. I bought a heavy old front hub Sunbear, but it felt skittish on some gravel and a rather unnatural ride. I changed that for a rear hub Freego Eagle, which felt a much more natural ride but was very underpowered.

 

This forum piqued my interest in the TSDZ2 so I contacted Andy and Tony at Whoosh who prepared a kit for me. I picked a suitable donor bike from a local charity shop "Hope to Cycle" from their pile of donated bikes, they serviced it new cables, tyres, chain, brakes and cassette for £250. Very light 18kg Specialized Crossroads and ideal donor bike for the TSDZ2. Whoosh were extremely professional and gave me every assistance, just a 'phone call away. The whole kit with a 48v battery was £680.00. I have been extremely pleased with this bike and have used it ever since, clocking up nearly 3000 miles. No issues with the kit, except for a poor connection on the battery holder, a twist of the connector sorted that. I did have a clunking noise for which I returned the motor to Whoosh, no fault found, turned out to be a bent rear axle.

 

I mostly use the bike on cycle paths and tarmac at Hengistbury Head and along the Bournemouth sea front promenade, and often along the grave tracks throughout the New Forest. One thing I will heartily recommend, do get a kit with a throttle. I cannot emphasise this enough.

When starting off, it enables me to start without wobbling, and gives me the confidence to tackle almost any incline.

Finally, good luck with your endeavours, the TSDZ2 will serve you well I am sure.

 

Here is a link to my review at the time:- https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/whoosh-crank-drive-tongsheng-kit-review.34071/#post-489738

 

Cheers, Tony.

Edited May 7, 20232 yr by vidtek

[mention=39091]AJ_P[/mention]

I have been following this thread with interest. I purchased my TSDZ2 about 4 years ago and have been very happy with it. I hadn't been on a bike since my early teenage tears as I spent 33 years in Australia and they had compulsory helmet wearing for all over there. No fun in 38deg, you want some air in your hair. On returning to blighty nearly 10 years ago, I was informed by the lovely Jane that She would not be happy with me bringing my motorbike or buying a new one over here with the heavier traffic in Bournemouth/Poole. So I compromised for the sake of my marriage and a peaceful life to aquiesce and thought about an electric bike. I bought a heavy old front hub Sunbear, but it felt skittish on some gravel and a rather unnatural ride. I changed that for a rear hub Freego Eagle, which felt a much more natural ride but was very underpowered.

 

This forum piqued my interest in the TSDZ2 so I contacted Andy and Tony at Whoosh who prepared a kit for me. I picked a suitable donor bike from a local charity shop "Hope to Cycle" from their pile of donated bikes, they serviced it new cables, tyres, chain, brakes and cassette for £250. Very light 18kg Specialized Crossroads and ideal donor bike for the TSDZ2. Whoosh were extremely professional and gave me every assistance, just a 'phone call away. The whole kit with a 48v battery was £680.00. I have been extremely pleased with this bike and have used it ever since, clocking up nearly 3000 miles. No issues with the kit, except for a poor connection on the battery holder, a twist of the connector sorted that. I did have a clunking noise for which I returned the motor to Whoosh, no fault found, turned out to be a bent rear axle.

 

I mostly use the bike on cycle paths and tarmac at Hengistbury Head and along the Bournemouth sea front promenade, and often along the grave tracks throughout the New Forest. One thing I will heartily recommend, do get a kit with a throttle. I cannot emphasise this enough.

When starting off, it enables me to start without wobbling, and gives me the confidence to tackle almost any incline.

Finally, good luck with your endeavours, the TSDZ2 will serve you well I am sure.

 

Here is a link to my review at the time:- https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/some-advice-needed-please.45158/

 

Cheers, Tony.

 

Hello Tony,

 

Yes, been there done that in respect of the lady's input on matters. I was learning to fly microlights many years ago and my sister in law happened to see a photo of yours truly at the controls "up there". She looked at my wife and said "You know, you're going to have to get used to the idea of living without him". I never flew again. True story.

 

As for the motor, I have only thus far bought one and that is for my wife's bike. It does indeed have a throttle for those occasions when it may be a nice addition to have. The TSDV2B will suit her very well I expect. Nothing too lairy and as close to a natural cycling experience as possible which will make it easier for her to manage while not overwhelming her.

 

I bought the 750w with a 48v battery and I am looking forward to seeing how it performs. That will then hopefully help me to figure out whether or not it would suit my "articulated" bike i.e. with tagalong bike and kid attached to the back, which all up is going to be 150kg or slightly more. That has to be hauled up rough forest fire roads with gradients in places of what I perceive to be roughly 10% or so. Gearing may well be the solution for my own needs or indeed simply a Bafang motor as a starting point instead but as of right now I do not know how the Tongsheng feels in terms of power, or any motor for that matter so hopefully I will get my wife's bike converted this week or next and I will then at least have that experience to go on. It's a learning process and thanks to the people on this forum, it is losing a lot of it's mystery thankfully.

 

All the best to you,

 

AJ

 

P.S. Your link is directing to this thread.

AJ said:

P.S. Your link is directing to this thread.

 

Doh! don't get old, you become this strange fuddy-duddy replica of your former self.........

 

I have edited it to reflect the correct link :_ https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/whoosh-crank-drive-tongsheng-kit-review.34071/#post-489738

AJ said:

P.S. Your link is directing to this thread.

 

Doh! don't get old, you become this strange fuddy-duddy replica of your former self.........

 

I have edited it to reflect the correct link :_ https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/whoosh-crank-drive-tongsheng-kit-review.34071/#post-489738

I'm a long way from perfection myself and as for getting old, youth is simply a memory that is disappearing rather rapidly in my rear view mirror.

Depressing stuff:

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/does-iq-decline-as-we-age-one-type-of-intelligence-peaks-in-your-twenties

 

 

... use it or lose it

Edited May 8, 20232 yr by guerney

Depressing stuff:

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/does-iq-decline-as-we-age-one-type-of-intelligence-peaks-in-your-twenties

 

 

... use it or lose it

Why oh why did you post this Gurney? Now I'll be mooching about depressed all day waiting until the sun's past the yardarm and I can drown my sorrows in a stiff one and one more and one more.....might as well kill a few more grey cells off.

Why oh why did you post this Gurney?

 

I can't remember

youth is simply a memory that is disappearing rather rapidly in my rear view mirror.

So long as memory itself doesn't disappear with it you're OK

 

The heat is caused by the current through the motor and as Power is the product of current and voltage (P = I x V) then you can see the 48v version draws less current per unit of power.

Less battery current it's true. With the motor doing the same climb and speed as before, it's getting the same phase current as before and just as hot, with the controller converting as needed according to the battery voltage.

With 48V though the motor might get less hot through climbing a hill in a shorter time.

There is an oil seal on each side of the spindle. The support bearings are a straight swap for them. No dismantling required.

 

The motor has just arrived. The battery will be another day or two I imagine. I have my wife's bike ready for fitment apart from a cable under the bottom bracket but I would like to fit these additional bearings before using the motor.

 

I can see the oil seal on the non drive side; the seal on the other side being behind the chain ring I imagine. I've seen references to two additional bearings and some that say three. How many do I actually need, is there a preferred brand for this task and can I refit the oil seals afterwards or are the bearings in their place instead? I wouldn't like dirt and grit to get in there.

 

Am I correct in saying they are 6902RS bearings?

 

I'm looking forward to this.

 

AJ

Wych Bearings

 

61902-2RS (6902 2RS) Deep Grooved Ball Bearing / Thin Section Bike Bearing - Sealed Budget 15x28x7
Qty: 1
Price: £2.36

6902-LLB (6902-2RS) Enduro Bike Bearing Abec 3 15x28x7
Qty: 2
Price: £4.65

 

The two spendy blue ones are for the outside, the budget one for inside. (NB I used a wood screw to remove the oil seals, then shoved the budget one and then the blue one onto the non-drive spindle; from memory - the spider (drive-side) was a tight fit so I took the spider off, popped the blue bearing on and then used the five spider screws to force them together.

 

You don't really need them at the beginning of your adventure - but they are a good idea for hefty-riders and probably for general longevity.

Edited May 8, 20232 yr by pedalfettal

Wych Bearings

 

61902-2RS (6902 2RS) Deep Grooved Ball Bearing / Thin Section Bike Bearing - Sealed Budget 15x28x7
Qty: 1
Price: £2.36

6902-LLB (6902-2RS) Enduro Bike Bearing Abec 3 15x28x7
Qty: 2
Price: £4.65

 

The two spendy blue ones are for the outside, the budget one for inside. (NB I used a wood screw to remove the oil seals, then shoved the budget one and then the blue one onto the non-drive spindle; from memory - the spider (drive-side) was a tight fit so I took the spider off, popped the blue bearing on and then used the five spider screws to force them together.

 

You don't really need them at the beginning of your adventure - but they are a good idea for hefty-riders and probably for general longevity.

pedalfettal,

 

You're a gentleman. I will order these tonight and get them fitted as soon as I can. Having the shaft supported at each end has to be a good thing.

 

Are the original oil seals replaced by the two blue bearings or do the bearings seat deep enough to allow the oil seals to be refitted?

 

The battery for my wife's bike arrived and it most definitely will not fit within the frame triangle so I am left with two options. Either I make a plate for the rear rack and fit it to that thus losing carrying space and making the bike top heavy, or my preferred option where I fit it to the underside of the down tube where it will have about an inch of clearance from the front wheel at full suspension depression. That involves drilling the frame and the fitting of nutserts which means I will have to buy a nutsert tool kit. I've seen a few cheap ones on Ebay which are likely not great but it doesn't make sense to buy a dear one for a few holes. I'm somewhat concerned if nutserts will be strong enough though to hold a heavy battery upside down while being vibrated along rough forest tracks. I wouldn't want to see that damaged, that's for sure!

 

All the best,

 

AJ

Not convinced about drilling the frame...

 

These might be worth considering - two will probably support a suspended battery...

 

Bottle Cage Mounting

 

Oil seals - retain in spares box - the blue RS bearings have seals so should provide some protection. Mudguards/fenders are always a good idea to keep moisture and muck off.

or my preferred option where I fit it to the underside of the down tube where it will have about an inch of clearance from the front wheel at full suspension depression

I'm not convinced either. I think there are a couple of problems. 1st, the battery will be very exposed to knocks, water spray and easy to damage. 2nd, dangling battery off rivnuts underneath may not be very strong as battery weight is not resting on frame.

 

Just a thought, would you be better using the battery on your bike and finding a different solution for your wife's bike?

 

I didn't want to mount a battery to my frame (for different reasons) so opted for a bag battery. I am putting it in a waterproof Otter box and it can go in trunk bag or pannier. It's physically quite small but only 10ah (which is 60+ miles for me).

 

Edit: if you do mount underneath here is a thread https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/pre-conversion-help-research.43841/page-2

Edited May 10, 20232 yr by Bogmonster666

Apologies if I missed it, but what voltage is your battery? If 48v rather than 36v, then for any given power output the possible overheat issues are less so with the 48v version.

 

The heat is caused by the current through the motor and as Power is the product of current and voltage (P = I x V) then you can see the 48v version draws less current per unit of power.

In principle, your idea is correct, but the explanation needs some adjustment. The heat goes up with the square of the current.

 

In this case P= I x I x R and the amount of heat is (1 - efficiency) x I x I x R

 

A crank motor is designed to run efficiently at your modal pedal speed. Some people take a 36v version and run it at 48v, which would increase its max RPM by 30%, but it would also make it less efficient at normal pedal speed so that it would draw more current and produce more heat at that pedal speed. That's why it's not a good idea to over-volt a crank motor except in special circumstances.

 

When the manufacturers produce a 48v version, it would normally have more turns in the coils to reduce its speed in proportion to the voltage so that you get the same crank speed and efficienciesas the 36v version.

A crank motor is designed to run efficiently at your modal pedal speed. Some people take a 36v version and run it at 48v, which would increase its max RPM by 30%, but it would also make it less efficient at normal pedal speed so that it would draw more current and produce more heat at that pedal speed. That's why it's not a good idea to over-volt a crank motor except in special circumstances.

It would be less efficient and draw more current at normal pedal speed if it were driven at the new voltage, but then being a more powerful 48V system it would accelerate. To do the same work (climb at the same steady speed) as with the 36V battery you'd ease off until the motor operates at the same current, efficiency and heating as before, with only the battery current being lower.

 

If the motor usually gets hotter in practice I think that would be down to being unable to ease off just the right amount using the torque sensor, PAS levels, throttle or whatever.

Not convinced about drilling the frame...

 

These might be worth considering - two will probably support a suspended battery...

 

Bottle Cage Mounting

 

Oil seals - retain in spares box - the blue RS bearings have seals so should provide some protection. Mudguards/fenders are always a good idea to keep moisture and muck off.

Bearings are on their way.

 

Yes, trusting the substantial weight of the battery to reliably hang upside down on a thin aluminium frame via a handful of nutserts while riding on rough terrain doesn’t inspire much confidence to be honest. I know others have done it but I’m not going to follow suit.

 

My main reason for not wanting to use the rear rack is that it is quite exposed if the bike were to fall over which knowing my wife is going to happen a lot, but needs must so I will probably shape an aluminium mounting plate to suit it. I don’t know how strong the Hailong cases are but tipping over from that height with the resultant momentum onto a sharp stone or some such could probably penetrate the plastic and cause a problem. I suppose I could fit it in a box of some description that would house the battery and this would then give some additional protection for when the inevitable happens. Of course there needs to be room to access the battery lock, switch, port etc so that is another consideration of course.

 

Either way, none of it is insurmountable.

 

All the best,

 

AJ

I'm not convinced either. I think there are a couple of problems. 1st, the battery will be very exposed to knocks, water spray and easy to damage. 2nd, dangling battery off rivnuts underneath may not be very strong as battery weight is not resting on frame.

 

Just a thought, would you be better using the battery on your bike and finding a different solution for your wife's bike?

 

I didn't want to mount a battery to my frame (for different reasons) so opted for a bag battery. I am putting it in a waterproof Otter box and it can go in trunk bag or pannier. It's physically quite small but only 10ah (which is 60+ miles for me).

 

Edit: if you do mount underneath here is a thread https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/pre-conversion-help-research.43841/page-2

It looks like my best option for my wife’s bike is to go with the rear rack and attach the battery to that. I could then fit a front rack which she can use to carry the bag she usually has on the back. It mightn't be the ideal solution but in this case it is the best option.

 

I did look for another battery but anything smaller in physical size is made from Chinese cells and isn’t a whole lot cheaper. This battery contains Samsung 21700 cells and cost me about £220 including delivery. I could buy a plain wrapped battery without a Hailong case at £195.99 but once again, they are normally Chinese cells, the price isn’t much cheaper and a soft case for it adds another £16.99. That brings me almost up to the price of the quality battery I have at the minute.

 

With regards to fitting this battery to my own bike, I would be concerned that it wouldn’t be big enough in terms of capacity to deal with the weight of my outfit over the course of a day out in the forest. The truth is I honestly don’t know whether it would or not. All I know is that my bike etc etc weighs a lot and will require both the propulsion and power source to suit. A 14.5ah battery may be absolutely fine for my needs but I don't know yet which motor is going to suit either and having no experience of Ebikes really whatsoever, every single aspect is an unknown quantity to me. Still enjoying it though.

 

I have the motor loosely fitted and most of the ancillaries so once I get a little time, I'm hoping to finish it off and see what needs to be done then in terms of alterations, chain rings etc.

 

All the best,

 

AJ

Edited May 10, 20232 yr by AJ_P

Sounds like you have a plan. I'm waiting for an an Anderson extension cable, cable glands and fuse holder. I will then put my battery in box with some high density foam as per the picture. My cells are Samsung 21700s, certainly didn't want no name cells either. The box will then just be in a trunk bag or pannier. The bag battery feels very exposed at the moment but I know otter boxes are very tough indeed - this particular one has been regularly abused in a cave. Will need to be careful with the cable to stop it getting damaged but I think it will be ok.

 

Will open the box to connect the charger.

I forgot to mention that these things are quite substantial and also useful for trying out different positions:

 

Bottle Cage Mounting

 

Have you considered panniers? Live battery on one side, family first-aid kit, refreshments, pies, and pasties in the other.

 

A kickstand might be useful too to hold the whole lot up.