Like magic. Gone.

Just like that.

Edited April 18Apr 18 by alanbonne
Link

Oh dear - well, it was looking that way wasn't it.

https://www.donutlab.com/donut-labin-ja-nordic-nanon-lausunto-yksityishenkilon-tekemaan-rikosilmoitukseen-liittyen-17-4/

Scroll down for English translation.

The tantalising drip drip of test results was certainly getting tiresome.

10 hours ago, Tony1951 said:

The tantalising drip drip of test results was certainly getting tiresome.

So now for the drip drip of exactly who did what ..., who knew what ..., when, ... how illegal was it anyway, ...

(and which of them knew Epstein?)

On 14/01/2026 at 11:36, saneagle said:

Anybody with a modicum of common sense can figure it out.

1. Why has no working model been demonstrated?

2. Why is it only going to be put in a niche motorbike of a couple of hundred units?

3. Why hasn't the technology been licenced to CATL, Stellantis or Tesla?

4. What's the chance that a team of a few employees can design, develop and bring to production a battery better than one from massive corporations, each with thousands of employees working with the best equipment and people in the world. Anybody can come up with a good idea, but to get it into production without significant resources is a different thing.

We conspiracy theorists got it in one. As I keep telling you, you can figure things out with simple logic and common sense, not what the BBC or mainstream media tells you, nor what your favourite AI tells you.

Is the Donut Labs guy now going to be testing cells himself?

Edited April 19Apr 19 by D8veh

What's the chance that a team of a few employees can design, develop and bring to production a battery better

On 14/01/2026 at 11:36, saneagle said:

. What's the chance that a team of a few employees can design, develop and bring to production a battery better than one from massive corporations, each with thousands of employees working with the best equipment and people in the world. Anybody can come up with a good idea, but to get it into production without significant resources is a different thing.

We in the West want to believe that we can still be world beaters so when someone claims precisely that they have the technology to beat the Chinese who is doing all the running in battery, we want to give the small guys a chance. There is also the venture capital industry which is always on the lookout for any workable ponzi scheme.

Donut Lab Solid-State Battery — The Printer | Where a Quasi-Capacitor Becomes SSB (Ep.15)

Very informative video.

The device is a supercapacitor using TiO2 in agar. It's relatively safe to use in lots of applications.

I can see why they don't want the bigger competitors to know what they are doing.

TiO2 based supercapacutors have been made before but their solution is the cheapest to make which is in itself an exceptional achievement.

Now the cat is out of the bag, the race is on to improve on what they have done.

A quick dive into TiO2 based SCs.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352152X2502362X

Pseudocapacitance: Unlike standard capacitors that only store charge on the surface, TiO2 can store charge chemically. Protons from the agar gel can be injected into the TiO2 lattice, a process facilitated by the fast arrival of protons via the Grotthuss path.

Another interesting feature is the use of water glass, the common name for sodium silicate, a versatile chemical compound made from sodium oxide and silica. It is most famously known for its ability to dissolve in water to form a thick, syrupy liquid that solidifies into a hard, glassy material when dried. It dries into a hard, non-conductive glass-like film, it serves as a protective coating or an insulating layer between the sheets making the device feel solid.

It's fascinating to explore what you can do with the donut idea. I was exploring how to make smart glass based objects that contain rechargeable battery and microchips with the help of Google.

Edited April 19Apr 19 by Woosh

"Despite decades of research, the widespread commercial adoption of "pure" pseudocapacitors is still constrained by practical bottlenecks.

Cmercial Availability: Currently, the market is dominated by EDLCs (Electrical Double-Layer Capacitors). Pure pseudocapacitive products are rare because they often suffer from poor cycle life; repeated chemical reactions cause the electrode materials to swell, shrink, and eventually degrade.

Cost Barriers: High-performing materials like Ruthenium dioxide (

) are extremely expensive, limiting their use to military or space applications. Cheaper alternatives like Manganese oxide (

) exist but struggle with low electrical conductivity and stability."

This might interest somebody:

https://chatgpt.com/share/69e54291-9c74-8331-8bdc-f3762decf7d7

9 hours ago, D8veh said:

We conspiracy theorists got it in one. As I keep telling you, you can figure things out with simple logic and common sense, not what the BBC or mainstream media tells you, nor what your favourite AI tells you.

Is the Donut Labs guy now going to be testing cells himself.

You said yourself further up this thread (I think, but somewhere for sure) 'They probably have something.'

The revelation of the patents held for this technology point to some revolutionary techniques, so while Lehtimäki has the stink of over-hype - not to say, 'dishonesty' hanging over him (not for the first time either) there is some interesting progress going on here - not only in chemistry but also in the production technique, and oddly, the curing process does make it a 'solid state' device. It has water, but not 'free water'. So does granite, and you don't get much more solid than that.

We KNOW from the VTT tests that:

The cells can be charged at a very rapid rate.

They can discharge at a very high rate

They are tolerant of extreme temperature abuse

They fail gracefully rather than turning into a firework

They are solid state cells of a hybrid capacitor / chemical storage type

There are some revolutionary things going on here - even though Donut Labs is nothing more than a marketing partner of some clever technology companies.

There is a big difference between being a conspiracy theorist and examining evidence with a sceptical mind set.

Conspiracy theorists are not just people who are sceptical and cautious. They are people who ignore evidence because they prefer the idea that they have some kind of special insight which out ranks all other information which they simply dismiss as a trick played out (usually) by elites and powerful forces.

In many cases it is characterised by paranoid and delusional thinking.

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Tony1951

6 hours ago, Tony1951 said:

The revelation of the patents held for this technology point to some revolutionary

It's not revolutionary. The patent is about using laser to measure the thickness of the printed layer and 'ai' to regulate the pressure on the squeezee.

None of their technology is new. Not the TiO2 ink, not the printer. They are available if you check on wearable devices. The cleverest thing about the whole thing is the legal scheme to license their technology. If you are a licensee, any improvement you make connected to the process becomes theirs. You buy your ink from only approved supplier. You cannot sue your printer supplier or your ink supplier.

You can ask ChatGPT to formulate for you the recipe for the ink and where to buy your printer to suit the battery you want to make.

The contention is on the gravimetric density and longevity of the tech. If you use more water glass, it's solid and durable, if you use more agar, it's lower resistance, faster charging but agar degrades. The 400wh/kg energy density is about theoretical maximum for TiO2 nanotubes.

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Woosh

So over and above all the science is this something that can or could be used in a commercial alternative to to a Lithium ion battery, i.e. better, cheaper , safer?

Yes, and very affordable to small businesses. The main weakness of the process is the middle layers are inaccessible once the cell is baked solid. If one layer is weak, for example being thinner than the rest, the same current is going to short it out over time, losing capacity suddenly. The good thing is the capacitor can't catch fire.

Another good feature is you can tailor the voltage. A 36V cell for ebikes for example.

At the moment, I think practical limit is about 200wh per kg. Good enough for ebikes.

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Woosh

9 hours ago, Tony1951 said:

There is a big difference between being a conspiracy theorist and examining evidence with a sceptical mind set.

Conspiracy theorists are not just people who are sceptical and cautious. They are people who ignore evidence because they prefer the idea that they have some kind of special insight which out ranks all other information which they simply dismiss as a trick played out (usually) by elites and powerful forces.

In many cases it is characterised by paranoid and delusional thinking.

https://chatgpt.com/share/69e55e48-0748-8386-b29c-7ad096e82bd6

I tend to agree with you. The root of the word 'skept' goes back to 'examine' or 'consider' or the ancient's use to say 'open to inquiry'. The sceptic was considered as holding no strong beliefs as such as everything is open to inquiry. The sceptic is often seen as the opposite to the dogmatist who has there mind made up (strong beliefs). So the sceptic, having no strong beliefs considers everything open to inquiry whereas the conspiracy theorist has a strong dogmatic belief that needs no further inquiry .

Of course, the word has been twisted since but the true spirit of scepticism is one of keeping an open mind.

Membean

Word Root: skept (Root)

The word part "skept" is a root that means "examine, consider".

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Sturmey

The patent shows that the printing process is very attuned to laying down microscopically even layers, so the issue of variable layers would seem to be taken care of in the printing process. That is one of the key parts of this technology, which is one reason why above, I mentioned that the technology is revolutionary. You took issue with that, but I think it stands up. It is revolutionary, and so is the concept of the capacitor/ battery. It appears that they have made such a thing - according to VTT. Show me the other battery which can operate at the ambient temperatures tested by them, and charge at the rapidity of this one.

Unfortunately, that big lying Finn Marko Lechtmati has polluted the pond with all his hype and showmanship. He may have fanned up a lot of interest with his bluster, but his quoting of theoretical maxima and claims that it is all available now when it isn't has brought on massive scepticism and disrepute to some real innovation.

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Tony1951

1 minute ago, Tony1951 said:

Show me the other battery which can operate at the ambient temperatures tested by them, and charge at the rapidity of this one.

Chinese EVs now have 5 minute charging.

ChatGPT designed for me a buildable 36V ebike supercapacitor complete with BOM along the line of the donut battery and explained to me all the downside of such device.

Those devices need strong mechanical clamping so the overall gravimetric density of 400WH/kg is effectively pie in the sky. Same goes 100,000 cycles. Still, 1000 cycles is achievable.

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Woosh

1 minute ago, Sturmey said:

I tend to agree with you. The root of the word 'skept' goes back to 'examine' or 'consider' or the ancient's use to say 'open to inquiry'. The sceptic was considered as holding no strong beliefs as such as everything is open to inquiry. The sceptic is often seen as the opposite to the dogmatist who has there mind made up (strong beliefs). So the sceptic, having no strong beliefs considers everything open to inquiry whereas the conspiracy theorist has a strong dogmatic belief.

Membean

Word Root: skept (Root)

The word part "skept" is a root that means "examine, consider".

EXACTLY.

It is quite funny that we are dealing today with the same flaws in human nature as the Ancient Greeks were, isn't it, and that the same vices are misleading people.

Selection bias

Dogmatism rather than open minded investigation

To name but two of many.

5 minutes ago, Woosh said:

ChatGPT designed for me a buildable 36V ebike supercapacitor complete with BOM along the line of the donut battery and explained to me all the downside of such device.

Come back with a video of it when it has built one and it has been tested,

Just now, Tony1951 said:

Come back with a video of it when it has built one and it has been tested,

As I implied in the previous posts, energy density and long life can't compete with Lithium-ion batteries that we use at the moment. That doesn't mean that the idea is dead, it's just not performant enough for me to invest in it.

I'm not clear at all what the energy density of the existing cell is.

Information online searched out by a robot tells me that the Nordic Nano cells have been shown to have an energy density of 268 - 297 Whr Kilogram. I think that is higher than the best lithium ion cells generally available - though far short of what Lechmati the liar has been saying.

source:

Note: As of April 2026, some industry observers and independent tests have suggested that these 400 Wh/kg claims for the specific DL-series cells remain unverified, with early prototypes testing closer to 268–297 Wh/kg, or that the technology may function more similarly to a supercapacitor

Thinking about Lechmati - I note that I have seen his kind before many tines among sales teams and organisations.

They present as affable, well informed friends whose only ambition is to get you the thing you require as cheaply as possible, but in reality they are not your friend and unless severely managed and penalised for deception, they will say anything they think you will swallow to get a deal and make some money.

I think a completely honest salesman is a rare thing. Their job is to re-define reality in a way that persuades you to part with money.

Lechmati has spread cr ap all over this invention.

4 minutes ago, Tony1951 said:

I'm not clear at all what the energy density of the existing cell is.

Information online searched out by a robot tells me that the Nordic Nano cells have been shown to have an energy density of 268 - 297 Whr Kilogram. I think that is higher than the best lithium ion cells generally available - though far short of what Lechmati the liar has been saying.

source:

Note: As of April 2026, some industry observers and independent tests have suggested that these 400 Wh/kg claims for the specific DL-series cells remain unverified, with early prototypes testing closer to 268–297 Wh/kg, or that the technology may function more similarly to a supercapacitor

that's the energy density of the TiO2 layer, approaching theoretical limit for TiO2 nanotube inks. The cell stack needs clamping with aluminium or stainless steel plates and corner bolts. The shell can easily double the weight of the printed stack. Trust me, if it weren't for those 400wh/kg density and 100,000 cycle claims, it wouldn't have blinded so many people.

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Woosh