Hi everyone- new to the forum and new to ebikes.

I am looking to buy my first ebike but first a little background about me.

I am 57, 6ft3in and weigh 94kg. I recently had a heart attack which has led to me having a stent and then a heart bypass. Its now 8 weeks since my surgery and I am looking to start cycling as part of my cardiac rehabilitation. It has been recommended to me that I get an ebike as this will help when I get tired going up hills etc and I can use battery power to help me continue. I live in a very hilly area so the bike needs enough oomph to make it up the steep hills.

I havent the first idea about ebikes so any help would be really appreciated. I will be going through a cycle2work scheme and my budget is around £2k.

27 minutes ago, Frazzled said:

Hi everyone- new to the forum and new to ebikes.

I am looking to buy my first ebike but first a little background about me.

I am 57, 6ft3in and weigh 94kg. I recently had a heart attack which has led to me having a stent and then a heart bypass. Its now 8 weeks since my surgery and I am looking to start cycling as part of my cardiac rehabilitation. It has been recommended to me that I get an ebike as this will help when I get tired going up hills etc and I can use battery power to help me continue. I live in a very hilly area so the bike needs enough oomph to make it up the steep hills.

I havent the first idea about ebikes so any help would be really appreciated. I will be going through a cycle2work scheme and my budget is around £2k.

At 94kg and being a bit weak, I'd advice you to get one that's 48v, not 36v. Also, I wouldn't spend £2000 on your first one. You can get perfectly adequate ones for £600 and quite nice ones for £1000.

Things that matter when you buy an ebike:

1. Hydraulic disc brakes. If a bike has cable brakes, it's usually a 10 minute job to swap them to hydraulic ones, which cost about £40. Avoid rim brakes and don't get fooled into thinking cable disc brakes are OK when you first try a bike with them.

2. Replacement batteries. Sooner or later, you'll need one. Avoid any bike that has a bespoke battery because models don't last long and spares can be impossible to find a couple of years after you bought the bike.

3. Avoid any bike that needs a phone app. It's been tried many times, and the sellers always seem to go out of business, then the servers are shut down, and you're left with an unsolveable problem.

4. Avoid any bike that has novel features for the same reason as above. They always seem to leave owners stranded sooner or later.

5. Avoid small batteries. You're relatively heavy and need a lot of power. The strain on small batteries wears them out very quickly. Capacity in watt-hours = voltage x capacity in amp-hours. Sometimes they list the battery as 48v 12Ah and sometimes as 600wh. You would need something like 600 wh or more. More won't do any harm, but the bigger the battery, the more the weight. I use a down-tube mounted 48v 20Ah battery, which suits me well, and I'm the same weight as you. If you get a bike with a standard common or garden battery, it's easy to swap, upgrade, downgrade or have multiple ones for different occasions, but most important, you can be sure of future supply.

6. Hub-motor or crank motor. This is a big debate. They both have advatages and disadvantages. Crank motors can use the low gears to get all the torque you need to climb hills. At 48v, hub-motors have bridged the gap of torque for hills unless the hills are exceptionally long (Alps, Pyrenees, etc). Hub-motors give a smoother ride and are generally more reliable.

7. The type of pedal sensor. Torque sensors require some pedal effort to give power, and if you want a lot of power, you have to press a bit harder. It's very logical for anyone, who's cycling fit, but if your a person, who's legs are going to get tired, you're going to grind to a halt up hills. Cadence sensor give power as long as the pedals are turning, so if the motor can give enough power, you can air-pedal when you get tired and let the motor do all the work, though on steep uphills, not many hub-motors can give enough power to go up without some pedal effort.

8. Legality. Make sure that the listing definitely says 250w motor, and that the speed is or can be set to 15.5mph max. Throttles that give power independently of pedalling at a speed of more than 4 mph are not allowed, but it's easy to remove them if the bike has one.

@D8veh thank you so much for such a detailed response. There’s a lot to consider!

Am I best going to somewhere like Halfords or find a dedicated bike shop? Do you have any recommendations for brands I should look at?

Edited 16 hours ago16 hr by Frazzled

One thing I would say, is that a Torque sensing drive imv is not suitable for when one is tired.

They do deliver power but the power is proportional to how much effort one can put in.

10 minutes ago, Frazzled said:

@D8veh thank you so much for such a detailed response. There’s a lot to consider!

Am I best going to somewhere like Halfords or find a dedicated bike shop? Do you have any recommendations for brands I should look at?

That's a good question. The Chinese bikes that you can buy online are pretty good and easy to sort out if something goes wrong, but if you don't know how to work a spanner or multimeter, you're going to be a bit stuck if something does go wrong. In that case, you oly have a limited choice by going to your local bike shop. Some local bike shops are quite good, but most aren't.

Halfords and Go-Outdoors are a bit of a mixed bag because it depends on the expertise of the employees at your local branch. Many are not very good. The bikes are not bad when they work. Outside the guarantee period, there are often long delays to get parts, which are also expensive. They're pretty good at sorting out the bicycle parts, though, like brakes, tyres, spokes, etc.

The local bike shops tend to have more expensive brands. If you're going to buy anything from there, choose one that has a Bosch, Yamaha or Shimano system because they have the best spares backup, though obviously all spares and servicing will be very expensive. A routine service on a full suspension MTB will probably cost more than what you'd pay for a new Chinese bike with hub-motor, though a service on a town bike would be a lot less. The electrics are unserviceable. If anything goes wrong with the motor or its controller, you'll have to buy a replacement. When the electrics give an error code, there is nothing you can do other than take it back to the dealer because the system is locked by software, while as the Chinese bikes have easy to interpret codes and parts are generally easy to get quite cheaply.

What it really comes down to is your attitute to fixing things or whether you're happy just to pay for whatever happens.

I would be happy to consider Chinese bikes but are these available through cycle2work schemes member?

Which Chinese brands are the reliable ones as I remember in the past reading about exploding batteries when left on charge overnight. Not sure if that was related to ebikes or e-scooters.

3 hours ago, Nealh said:

One thing I would say, is that a Torque sensing drive imv is not suitable for when one is tired.

They do deliver power but the power is proportional to how much effort one can put in.

I agree in that I get tired using the torque sensor. I live within 7 miles of a mountain bike trail center with over 60 miles of offroad single track. Almost all the ebikes I see use torque sensor bikes. I would be an exception in terms of using a cadence sensor hub with full throttle, which strictly speaking is illegal but I like it. But there is no way I can see a cadence sensor only bike as suitable for mountain bike climbs without a full throttle as the cadence sensor bike can stall dangerously on a climb. Its here where I think the torque sensor bikes outshine the cadence sensor. To be honest and legal, I cant see how a cadence sensor setup could be suitable for any kind of serious mountain bike trail use without the additional use of an unrestricted throttle.

Edited 11 hours ago11 hr by Sturmey

2 hours ago, Frazzled said:

I would be happy to consider Chinese bikes but are these available through cycle2work schemes member?

Which Chinese brands are the reliable ones as I remember in the past reading about exploding batteries when left on charge overnight. Not sure if that was related to ebikes or e-scooters.

You can't go wrong with a bike from Woosh or Wisper.

Choose hub drive, cadence sensor, biggest battery you can afford.

Easy.

1 hour ago, Sturmey said:

I live within 7 miles of a mountain bike trail center with over 60 miles of offroad single track. Almost all the ebikes I see use torque sensor bikes. I would be an exception in terms of using a cadence sensor hub with full throttle, which strictly speaking is illegal. But there is no way I can see a cadence sensor only bike as suitable for mountain bike climbs without a full throttle as the cadence sensor bike can stall dangerously on a climb. Its here where I think the torque sensor bikes outshine the cadence sensor. To be honest and legal, I cant see how a cadence sensor setup could be suitable for any kind of serious mountain bike trail use without the additional use of an unrestricted throttle.

There are 24 magnets on the BBS01B cadence sensor, 360/24=15, but the minimum start signal value that works with standard firmware is 2, therefore a minimum 30 degree rotation of the crank is required to start pedal assist. I can start pedal assist on level road on my highest gear, by standing on the pedals. It'd be better for hill starts if a start signal value of 1 would work, I'm pretty sure I could turn the crank of my 20" wheeled conversion 15 degrees, even on a steep slope, if on a low enough gear. I'm wondering if open source BBS02 firmware could be programmed for a 15 degree start - bolt that 36V BBS02 controller to a 36V 250W rated BBS01B motor and it'd be legal. Toggling pedal assist levels low to high as required, up to almost full throttle power at top PAS level, with brake cutoffs for safety, moderately gnarly tricky climbs might be possible? I don't know if the 36V BBS02 controller's MCU is compatible with the open source BBS02 firmware. I don't offroad, so am not curious to find out. Perhaps I'll try this someday when I can't buy UART BBS01B controllers anymore. It'll be awhile before that happens, replacement controllers will probably be available for some time I think, and I already have a spare.

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by guerney

1 hour ago, guerney said:

There are 24 magnets on the BBS01B cadence sensor, 360/24=15, but the minimum start signal value that works with standard firmware is 2, therefore a minimum 30 degree rotation of the crank is required to start pedal assist. I can start pedal assist on level road on my highest gear, by standing on the pedals. It'd be better for hill starts if a start signal value of 1 would work, I'm pretty sure I could turn the crank of my 20" wheeled conversion 15 degrees, even on a steep slope, if on a low enough gear. I'm wondering if open source BBS02 firmware could be programmed for a 15 degree start - bolt that 36V BBS02 controller to a 36V 250W rated BBS01B motor and it'd be legal. Toggling pedal assist levels low to high as required, up to almost full throttle power at top PAS level, with brake cutoffs for safety, moderately gnarly tricky climbs might be possible? I don't know if the 36V BBS02 controller's MCU is compatible with the open source BBS02 firmware. I don't offroad, so am not curious to find out. Perhaps I'll try this someday when I can't buy UART BBS01B controllers anymore. It'll be awhile before that happens, replacement controllers will probably be available for some time I think, and I already have a spare.

I find it very difficult with a cadence only system to even get any movement on the pedals if I stop on an incline (or sometimes even in traffic/crossing the road) in a high gear and need to get going again. For this reason,I cycle nearly all the time with the throttle temporarily enabled. I find it quicker and safer. It reverts back to a walk assist function when I turn off the bike. I pedal most of the time. Its not that I'm lazy, I just find it safer.

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by Sturmey

9 minutes ago, Sturmey said:

I find it very difficult with a cadence only system to even get any movement on the pedals if I stop on an incline (or sometimes even in traffic/crossing the road) in a high gear and need to get going again. For this reason,I cycle nearly all the time with the throttle temporarily enabled. I find it quicker and safer. It reverts back to a walk assist function when I turn off the bike. I pedal most of the time. Its not that I'm lazy, I just find it safer.

A few years ago I saw a formerly 26" wheeled Saracen downhill bike on Endless Sphere fitted with 20" wheels, so I sometimes find myself searching ebay for downhill bikes and wondering how much higher their bottom brackets are, what the BB type is, and whether I can get a downtube battery inside the triangle, when the triangle isn't occupied. Easier to get a 20" wheeled bike moving, gearing and the gear you're on depending. Since increasing my controller amp limit from 15A to 20A, I can't recall not being able to start, even uphill. But I do habitually gear down before stopping, when the stop isn't unexpected. I've got used to and don't miss having a throttle, most of the time. The only exception is on tight winding offroad uphill bits (especially when towing a heavy trailer) which for me is very rare. I stick to roads. Acceleration is fast at roundabouts etc. Thanks to the gear sensor, I don't have to pause pedalling while accelerating. This forum should have a no throttle 0 to 25kph leaderboard for 250W rated motors, with videographed evidence. For general road use, my 0 to 25kph is fast enough.

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by guerney

59 minutes ago, Sturmey said:

I find it very difficult with a cadence only system to even get any movement on the pedals if I stop on an incline (or sometimes even in traffic/crossing the road) in a high gear and need to get going again. For this reason,I cycle nearly all the time with the throttle temporarily enabled. I find it quicker and safer. It reverts back to a walk assist function when I turn off the bike. I pedal most of the time. Its not that I'm lazy, I just find it safer.

You can solve that with a KT controller, or do you already have one? It has a very fast response to the pedal sensor movement. You can set the throttle to 4mph start assist plus full power when pedalling, so you press it to get going while you start to pedal, then immediately, you get full power. In other words, you get power before you start pedalling, so it's better than a torque sensor.

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by D8veh

E-bikes are great. Personally, I've come to the conclusion the best option is to buy a nearly new / well maintained "donor bike" from Facebook marketplace and then convert it to an electric bike, you can convert it to your exact needs.

If you want to buy a ready made ebike, I bought a 48v rear hub Chinese bike which I bought direct from Duotts. This model seems to be used a lot by delivery riders.

https://www.alibaba.com/x/B1tM9K?ck=pdp

I followed that link and messaged Emily Liu, - I did wonder at the time if it was some sort of scam, but it wasn't and they had UK stock and the bike was delivered in a few days

It is very powerful but as a minimum you would need to upgrade the brakes (to hydraulic brakes with motor cut outs) and tyres and the display is not waterproof (and very dim) so you either need a waterproof cover or buy an upgraded display.

The disadvantages are that it is a bit laggy, the pedal assist only kicks in after 1-2 seconds of pedalling and then the motor continues assisting for 1-2 seconds after you stop pedalling unless you use the brakes. The cut outs connected to the brakes stop the motor immediately.

It has the more common "speed" based control, so each assist level corresponds to a speed and the controller will apply full power until you get to the speed for that level (which can be annoying if you are trying to ride with a group of friends)

Woosh do a 36v bike for heavier riders which is significantly more powerful than your standard 36v bikes (but not quite as powerful as some 48v bikes) They operate the cycle2work scheme.

It has a 36v 20A controller, most 36v bikes have a 15A controller

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?gran-camino

I think that's a much nicer bike with a controller that has a lot less lag, hydraulic brakes and a motor that is suited to the UK legal 15.5 mph max assist speed

If you decide to buy a bike and convert, there's lots of people here that will advise - it's a lot easier than you think, but you might need to follow YouTube videos , have some basic tools and maybe buy some bike specific tools from eBay. You could get a nice bike with hydraulic brakes off eBay and then fit a powerful 48v conversion kit (250w rated so it's legal) with a nice power based control system

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by Peter.Bridge
Clarity