November 9, 201114 yr It's no coincidence that during the recession years average motorway speed has dropped, as drivers do what they can to save money. What has been less widely reported is the 25% reduction in accidents during the same period. If ever there were plenty of evidence that increasing speed limits is a poor decision, it is right now, both in terms of making us a little greener and safer.
November 9, 201114 yr It's no coincidence that during the recession years average motorway speed has dropped, as drivers do what they can to save money. What has been less widely reported is the 25% reduction in accidents during the same period. If ever there were plenty of evidence that increasing speed limits is a poor decision, it is right now, both in terms of making us a little greener and safer. I agree,my next door but 2 neighbour was killed by a speeding car,20 yards from his home.....speed kills..leave the limit as it is.
November 9, 201114 yr I'm for the increase, the higher it's level the more spaced out vehicles become as drivers find the speed that suits them individually, rather than the speed they get compressed to by law. I don't like driving in a bunch and especially not in close proximity to trucks on motorways, so where necessary I'll speed to make space for safety reasons. For much of my driving life there were few speed limits, mainly just the 30 mph in built up areas but unlimited on almost all open roads.
November 9, 201114 yr although the limit is 70 most people do 80 anyway knowing they won't be prosecuted,if the limit increases to 80 then that becomes 90 unless we are going to have an influx of traffic police or speed cameras that actually work.
November 9, 201114 yr although the limit is 70 most people do 80 anyway knowing they won't be prosecuted,if the limit increases to 80 then that becomes 90 unless we are going to have an influx of traffic police or speed cameras that actually work. For some only. The trouble with the 70 limit is that most cars are comfortably able to maintain up 80 mph cruising. That's no longer true of 90 mph and higher speeds, many cars too near to their limits to be able to keep pace, so spreading out occurs, which can increase safety.
November 9, 201114 yr I've often wondered about the cause of those "waves" of congestion that happen on motorways - a temporary halt in flow for no apparent reason. It wouldn't be anything to do with speed differentials would it? Faster drivers unable to pass slower drivers? Call me sad, but I actually find this sort of traffic flow fascinating. It must be similar in quantifying to fluid mechanics where velocities of liquids forced together along pipes causes turbulence and effectively, blockages. The objective must be to get everything flowing at the same speed for overall volumes to increase.
November 9, 201114 yr The objective must be to get everything flowing at the same speed for overall volumes to increase. In rush periods I agree, best controlled by the sort of variable limits on the M25. But as someone who sometimes drives on the M25 at the times when volumes are very low, speed limits are inappropriate. Then, in the absence of policing, there are people who choose to drive at anything between 60 and 110 mph in respective lanes without any problems.
November 9, 201114 yr Yes, I have to admit to planning long drives for early in the morning or late at night. But more and more I focus on the MPG than the MPH - just a bit tight fisted really!
November 9, 201114 yr I actually find this sort of traffic flow fascinating. It must be similar in quantifying to fluid mechanics where velocities of liquids forced together along pipes causes turbulence and effectively, blockages.I heard a radio programme a year or so ago in which they said that analysis based on computer modelling of traffic patterns proved just that: motorway traffic behaved according to the laws of fluid mechanics.
November 9, 201114 yr There is nothing wrong with increasing the speed limit. I live on the Danish/German border and regularly drive in Germany where the speed limit is much higher. To me it feels much safer in Germany than in the UK. The M5 crash will end up being caused by drivers driving too fast for the road conditions. Those accidents will happen if you reduce the speed limit to 50mph or increase it to 150mph. I have no idea if or when the motorway speeds were last increased but I believe modern day vehicles have improved a lot since then. If you find a vehicle driving at the lawful speed on the motorway it is usually in the way of everything else. Steveif a car is driving at 70mph there should be no vehicle passing thats the law and that brings me full circle if the limit is raised to 80mph is that a go ahead to do 90 - 120mph dont forget the harder you are hit the harder the pain and yes cars are better but it seems to me the drivers are very much the same .!
November 9, 201114 yr In rush periods I agree, best controlled by the sort of variable limits on the M25. But as someone who sometimes drives on the M25 at the times when volumes are very low, speed limits are inappropriate. Then, in the absence of policing, there are people who choose to drive at anything between 60 and 110 mph in respective lanes without any problems. Hi Flecc it seems to me the only reason the 110mph kiddies get away with it is cos. we i.e the drivers doing the correct speed keep out of there way and let them pass hence they seem to think they are such wonderfull drivers .!
November 10, 201114 yr at 50mph the carnage would not have been so deadly ... speed does Kill ..! How do you know at what speed those vehicles were travelling? Has the investigation completed and published it's results? Maybe the investigation will find that they were all driving at 50mph and this was a major factor in the pile-up, who knows at this point in time? No-one. Hi Flecc it seems to me the only reason the 110mph kiddies get away with it is cos. we i.e the drivers doing the correct speed keep out of there way and let them pass hence they seem to think they are such wonderfull drivers .! What is the correct speed that you would be doing? There are not many drivers that do above 100mph anyway and very few that travel 90mph+. Do you have an insight into the minds of drivers that makes them think they are wonderful at certain speeds. Do drivers travelling at 80mph think they are wonderful also? Do drivers travelling at 50mph (which could also be considered a dangerously low speed for motorways in certain conditions) think they are wonderful too? Do you think drivers driving at the 'correct' speed should hold up drivers that want to go faster, would you not think that may cause bigger problems such as tailgating, frustration and road rage leading to more motorway incidents (maybe that was a contributing factor in the M5 crash). I don't notice many deliberate acts of drivers holding up faster drivers because they think they should be doing the 'correct' speed and when I do see it, it's usually an accident waiting to happen, so who is in the wrong there? (Both, to my mind). Surely if a mature debate about speed is to be had, then the debate needs to be about appropriate speed and driving to the conditions rather than just speed per se?
November 10, 201114 yr Hi I think That the moderator should Lock this Thread as it is all in bad taste 7 People DIED I and all you forum Should respect the relatives and leave this subject God bless you all and My Condolences to all involved Frank
November 10, 201114 yr Hi I think That the moderator should Lock this Thread as it is all in bad taste 7 People DIED I and all you forum Should respect the relatives and leave this subject God bless you all and My Condolences to all involved Frank I quite agree Frank.... Lynda
November 10, 201114 yr Author Originally Posted by banbury frank Hi I think That the moderator should Lock this Thread as it is all in bad taste 7 People DIED I and all you forum Should respect the relatives and leave this subject God bless you all and My Condolences to all involved Frank I quite agree Frank.... Lynda I make no apologies for disagreeing with you both, Frank & Lynda. The carnage caused on the M5 needs to be discussed in every household, every office, every pub and every forum possible. The only thing in bad taste is the opinion expressed by some amongst our number who defend high speed citing all sorts of spurious rationale. I really don't care whether we speak of excessive speed being anything over the relevant maximum limit or whether it's inappropriate speed in a particular circumstance. The reality is that both types of excessive speed are regularly practised by the same cretins. Those cretins are selfish and don't care a jot about other people's safety or wellbeing. Anybody with even the most basic grasp of physics must realise what happens in collisions at various speeds. To quote that much-hackneyed expression, "It's not exactly rocket science!" In my book, breaking the law shows bad taste and it doesn't matter which law that is. Those who advocate lawbreaking or defend it in any way, shape or form are no different from the lawbreakers themselves. Those forum members, (cyclists) who have expressed such opinions should be ashamed. Indalo
November 10, 201114 yr Before pushing the merits of a 70 limit, it should be borne in mind that following a short trial period with it, it was only reinstated permanently as a fuel saving measure following the Arab oil crisis in the early 1970s. Safety played no part in the decision. Every speed above that the human body evolved for is a dangerous potentially killing speed. The governments road research laboratory state that above a speed of about 26 mph at the body surface, the impact results in death through the seat belt causing critical internal organ failure.
November 10, 201114 yr Before pushing the merits of a 70 limit, it should be borne in mind that following a short trial period with it, it was only reinstated permanently as a fuel saving measure following the Arab oil crisis in the early 1970s. Safety played no part in the decision. Every speed above that the human body evolved for is a dangerous potentially killing speed. The governments road research laboratory state that above a speed of about 26 mph at the body surface, the impact results in death through the seat belt causing critical internal organ failure.
November 10, 201114 yr How do you know at what speed those vehicles were travelling? Has the investigation completed and published it's results? Maybe the investigation will find that they were all driving at 50mph and this was a major factor in the pile-up, who knows at this point in time? No-one. What is the correct speed that you would be doing? There are not many drivers that do above 100mph anyway and very few that travel 90mph+. Do you have an insight into the minds of drivers that makes them think they are wonderful at certain speeds. Do drivers travelling at 80mph think they are wonderful also? Do drivers travelling at 50mph (which could also be considered a dangerously low speed for motorways in certain conditions) think they are wonderful too? Do you think drivers driving at the 'correct' speed should hold up drivers that want to go faster, would you not think that may cause bigger problems such as tailgating, frustration and road rage leading to more motorway incidents (maybe that was a contributing factor in the M5 crash). I don't notice many deliberate acts of drivers holding up faster drivers because they think they should be doing the 'correct' speed and when I do see it, it's usually an accident waiting to happen, so who is in the wrong there? (Both, to my mind). Surely if a mature debate about speed is to be had, then the debate needs to be about appropriate speed and driving to the conditions rather than just speed per se? Do you think drivers driving at the 'correct' speed should hold up drivers that want to go faster, would you not think that may cause bigger problems such as tailgating, frustration and road rage leading to more motorway incidents (maybe that was a contributing factor in the M5 crash). I don't notice many deliberate acts of drivers holding up faster drivers because they think they should be doing the 'correct' speed and when I do see it, it's usually an accident waiting to happen, so who is in the wrong there? (Both, to my mind). So what is your answer to the above paragraph ? it seems to that the uniform seventy mph is the correct way to go from what you are saying there .!
November 10, 201114 yr So what is your answer to the above paragraph ? it seems to that the uniform seventy mph is the correct way to go from what you are saying there .! I'm not saying that any speed is the correct speed, because any speed could be the appropriate speed for the road, driving conditions, weather, tiredness level of driver, experience of driver etc etc. So my answer is that appropriate speed is the correct speed, not an arbitrary speed limit. Ask yourself why the government, presumably advised by scientific experts, road users, police and so on, are considering raising the limit, as a layman driver, I can only conclude that it must be a good thing! As a regular user of the motorways traveling mainly at 80mph and have done for many years with little incident, I can only conclude that 80mph feels like a safe, reliable, relaxing speed, with plenty of gap left for braking and usually plenty of room behind me for those traveling at roughly the same speed. I move over for those that want to go faster without incident, hardly ever get tailgated and certainly experience little road-rage in myself or prompted in others! If I drop to 70mph or below, I find that my workload is increased as I have to account for much more hazardous traffic around me which means increased driver tiredness, more lane changing and more sudden actions from drivers in front and behind. So for me 80mph is a naturally safe speed on the motorways, if the limit is raised I would not want to travel any faster and my guess is that the vast majority of motorway users that already travel at 80mph will not wish to travel much faster either. Of course there will be the few fly-boys (and women I might add) that will travel faster, but they do that regardless of the legal speed limit. On the subject of this thread being bad taste, I can't see why, no-one is disrespecting what happened on the M5, I'm sure we are all horrified at the crash and have sympathy for family and friends, but the crash has prompted a thread debating speed on the road, mainly in the context of motorways. Everybody's opinion is valid and can be read and written if so wished.
November 10, 201114 yr Before pushing the merits of a 70 limit, it should be borne in mind that following a short trial period with it, it was only reinstated permanently as a fuel saving measure following the Arab oil crisis in the early 1970s. Safety played no part in the decision. Flecc - I'm glad you are around to provide much needed historical context. It amazes me that the gems that you produce continue to change my perspective about items that I have grown up believing and how that perspective has been incorrect because no historical information has been available to provide context! I have been reading your other fascinating historical posts on another recent thread with interest and whilst history is known about the last 100 years (I know you are not that old) there's nothing like reading about it from a living horses mouth
November 12, 201114 yr .........and the government is preparing to listen to the arguments for increasing the motorway speed limit! Indaloritorno indalo mancante è l'uomo
November 12, 201114 yr why do you drive a Scorpio Cosworth whats wrong with a normal ford .? Because I like it and normal Ford are boring? The 2.9 v6 Cosworth engine is one of the truly great engines to be produced in the 90's imo. I like the comfort the Scorpio gives but imo the 2ltr and 2.3ltr variants are underpowered for the size of the car. If you're inferring that I shouldn't like fast/big engined cars then I'd best not tell about my other three cars! Remember, whilst there is a speed limit there is no law stopping you getting to that speed limit as quickly as possible (as long as you do it in a controlled manner ofc) :-) Edited November 12, 201114 yr by amigafan2003
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