Battery Fires

[Baz the balloon man]

I was watching one of the storage auction programs the other day and they found fire extinguisher grenades .

So full of Chemicals that steal all the oxygen away from a fire , I know this would not work on a battery fire but I wonder if ther is a chemical that can be added to a battery fire that would extinguish it ?

 

[saneagle]

I was watching one of the storage auction programs the other day and they found fire extinguisher grenades .

So full of Chemicals that steal all the oxygen away from a fire , I know this would not work on a battery fire but I wonder if ther is a chemical that can be added to a battery fire that would extinguish it ?

Batteries burn without needing oxygen from outside, otherwise they could have simply locked off the hold on that ship, where all the cars burned and sunk it.

 

[Woosh]

I was watching one of the storage auction programs the other day and they found fire extinguisher grenades .

So full of Chemicals that steal all the oxygen away from a fire , I know this would not work on a battery fire but I wonder if ther is a chemical that can be added to a battery fire that would extinguish it ?

The weakness of current ebike batteries is the carbonate organic solvent that is used in the current generation of e-bike batteries, like Dimethyl carbonate (DMC), Diethyl carbonate (DEC), Ethyl methyl carbonate (EMC). The oxygen is in the carbonate. They ignite when the cell enters thermal runaway.
To fix this, we need to replace them with solid electrolytes like LLZO (Li₇La₃Zr₂O₁₂), Li₁₀GeP₂S₁₂ (LGPS) as in solid state batteries which are being made in increasing quantities and will come to the market soon.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

The weakness of current ebike batteries is the carbonate organic solvent that is used in the current generation of e-bike batteries, like Dimethyl carbonate (DMC), Diethyl carbonate (DEC), Ethyl methyl carbonate (EMC). The oxygen is in the carbonate. They ignite when the cell enters thermal runaway.
To fix this, we need to replace them with solid electrolytes like LLZO (Li₇La₃Zr₂O₁₂), Li₁₀GeP₂S₁₂ (LGPS) as in solid state batteries which are being made in increasing quantities and will come to the market soon.

Sounds good I saw some posts about solid state batteries, I think they will also transform a lot of other applications ie EV for instance

 

[saneagle]

Sounds good I saw some posts about solid state batteries, I think they will also transform a lot of other applications ie EV for instance

I've been on this forum for 15 years. Ever since the beginning we've been getting monthly reports and articles about the latest breakthrough in battery technology, which will give us infinite range, power and safety. We're still waiting for something to actually happen. Instead of any breakthrough, we've had around a 7% increase in performance (capacity and power) per annum, so batteries are about twice as good as they were way back then, but nobody can point to a single significant change that brought about that increase.

I can't say whether safety has improved during those 15 years because we never had fires in those days, even though everybody was making DIY batteries and adding booster packs, etc. Fires seems to be something new, which I think is more related to the way they're used.

 

[Nealh]

and charging process used.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I've been on this forum for 15 years. Ever since the beginning we've been getting monthly reports and articles about the latest breakthrough in battery technology, which will give us infinite range, power and safety. We're still waiting for something to actually happen. Instead of any breakthrough, we've had around a 7% increase in performance (capacity and power) per annum, so batteries are about twice as good as they were way back then, but nobody can point to a single significant change that brought about that increase.

I can't say whether safety has improved during those 15 years because we never had fires in those days, even though everybody was making DIY batteries and adding booster packs, etc. Fires seems to be something new, which I think is more related to the way they're used.

So poor manufacturing and poor inspection of some imports from dubious sources.
People doing things that they should not see photo second one I have taken in PX from a customer.

Another One young lad who decided to wake a battery with a car 12V charger not sure what he did but he blew the fuse on the BMS and now the cells just immediately collapse if charged. Older Carrera battery.

Using completely the wrong charger ECT.

So when this happens which is a very small minority from the rest of the bikes that have no problems then the whole industry is tarnished.

I think as a matter of urgency the Manufacturer of Halfords and Raleigh Batteries that work the Suntours systems should make available to professional competent companies the parts and information needed to stop Joe Public doing what is now being done as in the attached photos because people will not accept that a bike possibly purchased just over a year ago for example is now scrap .

This is only going to get worse and these too big companies should be held to account for this.

This is The Battery I have had in like this and not the worst , the worst one the guy still had it in use on his bike with holes in it obviously he had managed to revive it but had it held back together with Two bits of very worn gaffer tape.

I will safely open this on my bench in the garden as I suspect he has punctured the cells like the last battery pack I posted .

 

[lenny]

Warning after e-bike battery causes house fire
"The lithium-ion battery that caused the fire had been bought second-hand online and was left charging overnight, the fire service said. "

Warning after faulty e-bike battery causes house fire in Nottingham

Three people sustained minor injuries in the fire, which destroyed the front room of the property.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[MikelBikel]

 

[AndyBike]

Battery question -

Do batteries improve with age initially ?
I dont mean as in older batteries, i mean in the initial charging from new.

eg Battery on the buzzbike seemed to need more charges when i first got it, but a year down the line i seem to need to charge it less.

The example here is i would potter off into the city center, a distance of about 5 miles. Then going a little further afield to a total of about 10 miles, meaning the return trip inc is 20 miles.

When i first got the bike, id do that journey, and the battery would show approximately 40% remaining(on max assist) indicating a top up charge needed.
Now, just about a year later i can do that journey, plus possibly another 10 miles(prob' 6 or 7)
Theres no scale. It uses light colour to indicate remaining power.
So Purple is 100-40%. Yellow is 20%-40%. Red is 5%-20%. Red flashing is 0%-5%
I usually charge it when it hits yellow.

 

[saneagle]

Battery question -

Do batteries improve with age initially ?
I dont mean as in older batteries, i mean in the initial charging from new.

eg Battery on the buzzbike seemed to need more charges when i first got it, but a year down the line i seem to need to charge it less.

The example here is i would potter off into the city center, a distance of about 5 miles. Then going a little further afield to a total of about 10 miles, meaning the return trip inc is 20 miles.

When i first got the bike, id do that journey, and the battery would show approximately 40% remaining(on max assist) indicating a top up charge needed.
Now, just about a year later i can do that journey, plus possibly another 10 miles(prob' 6 or 7)
Theres no scale. It uses light colour to indicate remaining power.
So Purple is 100-40%. Yellow is 20%-40%. Red is 5%-20%. Red flashing is 0%-5%
I usually charge it when it hits yellow.

More likely, you legs became stronger.

 

[guerney]

Do batteries improve with age initially ?

I'm by no means an expert, but if your bike was sale stock (I seem to remember it was), it probably hadn't been charged for a long time... and it contains no-name cells, and if the chemistry of those cells were different from each other - they could have discharged to different low voltages in storage at slightly different rates... therefore they would have needed to be charged after being discharged to a low voltage a few times perhaps, until the overall voltage of the pack stabilised closer to intended? On the other hand I could be completely wrong and your legs are indeed becoming like tree trunks.