Change in e-bike legislation

[eddieo]

Differentials in UK and Euro law have always existed. trailer law is one example. In the UK A frames can tow a small car only because this has not ben tested in court. In Europe this is not allowed but UK citizens do because if the law is OK within one European nation, it has to be excepted in the others.

So...leave us be

 

[flecc]

Brake cut-outs normally go with pedelecs because of the delay between stopping pedaling and the cut off of power.

Not in my experience. I have seen the odd bike with pedelec and cutouts, but most EU bikes don't have brake cutouts.

For example, Lafrees, Kalkhoffs, BH Emotion, Sparta, Koga, Flyer sold everywhere, and the eZee models and most others sold in Europe.
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[Marky T]

Differentials in UK and Euro law have always existed. trailer law is one example. In the UK A frames can tow a small car only because this has not ben tested in court. In Europe this is not allowed but UK citizens do because if the law is OK within one European nation, it has to be excepted in the others.

So...leave us be

Well said Eddieo, my kinda thinkin'. We led the way in WW2, so let us lead the way now and others follow. YES INDEED!!, PRAISE THE LORD, HALLE....can't remember how to spell that one. Nevermind.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Hi Tony, I've had a V2 Puma which I ruined, then on to a 5306 Crystalyte which I've found too heavy and conspicuous, now on the mighty little Bafang motor. My spare bedroom is now a workshop full of Ebikes, think I've got the bug bad!!

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Not in my experience. I have seen the odd bike with pedelec and cutouts, but most EU bikes don't have brake cutouts.

For example, Lafrees, Kalkhoffs, BH Emotion, Sparta, Koga, Flyer sold everywhere, and the eZee models and most others sold in Europe.
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We will have to agree to disagree on this one Tony, I've had the opposite experience, mind you it's been with the cheap end of the market. I hate them damned cut-outs!

 

[flecc]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one Tony, I've had the opposite experience, mind you it's been with the cheap end of the market. I hate them damned cut-outs!

That's the cheap Chinese bikes I've also seen with cutouts. All the European ones don't have them and the better Chinese makes like eZee who sell in Europe leave them off the EU models.

If our law changes and bans throttles, it's fairly certain the Chinese will be only too pleased to leave them off to save the money so there won't be any cut-outs left to bother you.

P.S. You certainly do have that e-bike bug with all those tried!
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[flecc]

It's a sobering thought, but if this no-throttles pedelec-only rule comes in, lots of the bikes on our market are likely to disappear. Most sales in the pedelec only main EU countries are of European made bikes plus a few better quality Chinese made ones like the eZee models.

The manufacturers of many of the throttle bikes we know don't bother with making and exporting pedelec versions for mainland Europe, just selling in the USA, Britain and other markets like Canada, Australia and New Zealand. If Britain adopts the EU rules they'll probably not bother with us either, since we are a very small market anyway.
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[Alex728]

wasn't the interpretation of the law by Wisper that the throttle was permitted as a power boost but not to move off from standstill? I think Wisper and Powacycle can be configured in either EU or British mode simply by the presence of absence of components, indeed I recall reading here some "EU" bikes went out to British customers by mistake leading to some head-scratching.

Certainly Powacycle also mentioned (in press releases) going for the EU market and Akther Group has a history of complying with legislation rather than trying to buck the system. (makes corporate sense as the company has a lot of high value public sector contracts).

not sure about Powabyke but I expect they must have the same plans.

I wouldn't overlook the fact that three major manufacturers of e-bikes are in fact British companies (which is actually a very impressive thing IMO!)

Aren't many controllers made for the international market, the pedelec sensor appears to be a stock (Wuxing?) item and most controllers accept both modes so it would presumably be straightforward for a dealer importing "non compliant" bikes to remove the throttle and set the controller wiring?

whether or not the bits get "left in the box" for "off road use" is another matter

 

[Northern Irelander]

who's going to police this legislation?

It's a bit like getting stopped for no brakes on your bicycle

Only the local chavs and hoodies who are acting the maggot on their 500w + motors are ever likely to get stopped.

Ride on I say, can't see any local constabulary being able to pursue on foot at 15mph

 

[Sevenhills]

who's going to police this legislation?

I havnt given my Izip a proper road test yet, but it has a throttle and not sure on the size of the motor. The laws do seem to be all over the place.
Will a once legal bike, be legal if the rules change?
And in reply to NI, it seems to me that most serious electric bikes could be illegal. Is a child seat on a cycle meant to carry one person legal, I think not; and trailers (of any kind) do trailers conform to any law/rules?

I think a plate stating the size of the motor etc. is the law, but would any PC or PCSO spend time working out what is legal if a cycle is being riden safely?
Thats my hope anyway.

S

 

[eddieo]

It was said on here before when this came up that he law if adopted will not be retrospective. So the situation will arise that both types of bikes will be on the road for some time. a plod will just have to twist the throttle to see if bike comply with regs or not.....You will have a battle on your hands to prove the bike pre-dates new regs and stop them confiscating it? bloody ridiculous! is that what will happen?

One of the reasons i was prepared to shell out on a 906xc as it front hub rear alfina 8, would be easier to maintain and hopefully last for years circumventing these regs..........

 

[flecc]

I wouldn't overlook the fact that three major manufacturers of e-bikes are in fact British companies (which is actually a very impressive thing IMO!)

Mmmm, not sure about that, it used to be five British companies only a short time ago!

As for the convertibility of bikes, I'm going by the simple fact that many of the Oriental throttle control bikes we have here are not sold into the at least 15 times larger EU market, where in the main cycling countries EU made bikes dominate.

If they don't take advantage of that huge market, why would they for our tiny one? The best hope is that the addition of Britain to that market tips the balance and makes them feel it worth the effort.
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[flecc]

who's going to police this legislation?

You are already affected since you already have the EU no-throttles rules in Northern Ireland and have had since 10th November 2003.

The simple reason for this is that our 1983 EAPC legislation is British law, not applying to you since N.I is in the UK, not Great Britain. The mandatory EU regulation was passed into UK law back in 2003, with no contrary British law to overrule it in your case.

Ride on I say, can't see any local constabulary being able to pursue on foot at 15mph

I'm all for that, the Italian approach, accept all the laws without complaining and then just ignore them. Trouble is we don't have the Italian local police and courts to go with that.
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[eddieo]

a discrete button/switch under the seat to disengage throttle.......Problem solved!

 

[Straylight]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the proposals don't explicitly ban the use of throttles, the stipulation is that the pedals must be turning in order for the motor to provide assistance. So you can still have a throttle, simply acting as a variable assist control, overriding a minimal pedal activated current, and cutting out at the same time. There is no stipulation about how hard you must be pedalling.

This has been an option on the Wisper, certainly since 2008, which is implemented by connecting the purple wires at the controller.

It then becomes a simple case of adapting one's riding style to comply, and getting a little more aerobic exercise in the process.

Also, the proposed change may allow the use of throttle only power up to 6km/h, which should be enough to get you started if you can't manage the initial push.

 

[flecc]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the proposals don't explicitly ban the use of throttles, the stipulation is that the pedals must be turning in order for the motor to provide assistance. So you can still have a throttle, simply acting as a variable assist control,

That makes sense and I've tended to think that a correct interpretation in the past.

However, the EU regulations appear to only permit a walk-alongside 6 kph throttle as seen on some Flyers and as an option on Kalkhoff bikes, this conforming with the Pedestrian Controlled Vehicle Regulations. We have the same regulations in Britain with a 4 mph limit.

The Kalkhoff S high speed model when fitted with that throttle option has a 12.5 mph "run-alongside" speed as a design flaw, but that bike is only legally sold in Germany within their high speed class there, not as a normal e-bike.

N.B. Just seen Straylight's comment on this.
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[Straylight]

But it realistically makes no difference whether the assistance power level is controlled via +/- buttons or via a continuously variable twist grip, it's essentially doing the same thing, just both will require the pedals to be turning in order to supply energy at the rider's chosen level to the motor.

 

[flecc]

But it realistically makes no difference whether the assistance power level is controlled via +/- buttons or via a continuously variable twist grip, it's essentially doing the same thing, just both will require the pedals to be turning in order to supply energy at the rider's chosen level to the motor.

I agree, and I think if challenged, a throttle would be legal if it was trechnically described as a power limiter. If the motor power conforms, the throttle must be a de facto power limiter so therefore a safety feature.

Odd though that none of the EU manufacturers have throttles, even those not using the Panasonic system such as Giant, Sparta, Koga and Gazelle.
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[Leesome]

I have had problems with brake cutouts, when my hands are cold I sometimes brake but not realise that I still have some throttle on, when I release the brake my bike shoots forward. It's not funny when you're waiting to cross a busy road!

Then lift your hand from the throttle, issue solved! Throttle gives precision control, that means safest option! Who takes a bicycle for a walk, machine is meant for riding. IMHO.

 

[Straylight]

Also, the proposed new legislation would make this situation impossible, as you're hardly pedalling whilst at a standstill in a queue of traffic...

Personally, the only thing I have against brake cut-outs is that it restricts your choice of brake lever, if only someone would invent an in-line system that required nothing to be attached to the lever, then all would be well.