Failed on my first big hill

[Deleted member 4366]

Sod that!

This was bad enough! The cliff drop at the bottom didn't making the prospect of climbing it any easier. Actually the bike didn't make it. I lost traction and this point, and couldn't get going again. The grass was simply too wet.

This hub-motored bike that I built, and still have, will go up that hill without pedalling. No problem with traction. It loves slippery grass, mud and snow.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks for the info David. Yes, helps very much.

Its a 2015 mk 1 version. There are 3 modes plus 'H' ( I assume meaning 'High'/100% and still in torque mode or does this revert to cadence like 'F' in the 2016 version?).

I was mostly using H, lowest gear and also trying the throttle. I also tried mode 3 and higher gears.

On a side note regarding the LCD controller. I can't find any way to see the MAX/AVG speed and TRIP TIME, which are the bare minimum functions on even the cheapest off the shelf 'bike computer'!

Hi Kevin,

H was changed to F on the Mk2 because strictly speaking H is incorrect, and due to the speedy rider graphic it makes it look like High however it can still be misconstrued as Fast!

My advice on hills is to keep the bike in the 3 mode and use the throttle to regulate the extra power needed. And use the lowest gear available on such steep hills.

I am afraid the LCD does not have many of the basic bike computer capabilities, it doesn't make sense considering the price of the display, I will ask the question.

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Never. I might require a little more help up the hills though. I have my doubts about this whole F button, it sounds like an idea dreamed up by someone who doesn't actually ride a bike.

Hi Artstu, to the contrary, it was dreamed up by people who do ride bikes for people who don't.

All the best, David

 

[flecc]

It is very hard for me to comprehend anyone asking for more power on the flat

it was dreamed up by people who do ride bikes for people who don't.

There are occasions where it's a good option. I'm thinking of the very fierce headwinds often suffered over wide flat plains such as the Dutch polders and some areas of our Eastern Counties.

They can drag cyclists down to a near standstill. It's a key reason why pedelecs are so popular in famously flat Holland.
.

 

[Artstu]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this F mode.

 

[shemozzle999]

Its not a throttle, its an accelerator.

To be currently EU politically correct it is an "Accelerator Handle" although it could change by the next meeting if they stay true to form.

From the point 4 of the MCWG meeting, 15 December 2015

"The ACEM representative pointed out that industry associations ACEM and Conebi had submitted their position paper addressing the issues of assistance factor 4 and powered cycles equipped with an accelerator handle. There is a need to further discuss these subjects in detail at the expert level in a next quadrilateral meeting"

I think I will still call it a throttle like millions of inhabitants of the planet appear to be comfortable with.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

What and interesting and amusing thread! I have had to back off spending so much time here as I have had to concentrate on the business. Pedelecs is too addictive!

It is fun to see so many people discussing why the bike they have chosen is the best, but consider.

We (just us at Amps) sell bikes with six different motors...

1. High torque, "torque sensor" rear hub
2. Standard torque, "cadence sensor" rear hub
3. High torque, "torque sensor" front hub
4. Bosch Active (standard torque) mid motor
5. Bosch Performance (high torque) mid motor
6. Bosch performance CX (very high torque) mid motor

Then we then have twelve transmissions...

1. 7 speed Shimano Tourney
2. 8 speed Shimano Acerer
3. 9 Speed Shimano Sora
4. 10 speed Shimano Deore
5. 11 speed Shimano Deore XT
6. Shimano Nexus 7 hub
7. Shimano Nexus 8 hub
8. Rohloff 14 speed hub
9. Nuvinci 360 CVT
10. Nuvinci 380CVT
11. Nuvinci Automatic
12. Sram 27 speed dual drive

Five battery sizes

1. 300Wh
2. 375Wh
3. 400Wh
4. 500Wh
5. 575Wh

Five wheel/tyre sizes

1. 20"
2. 26"
3. 27.5"
4. 28"
5. 29"

Tyre widths from road to fat tyres. Step through frames, mixte frames, mountain bike frames, road bike frames, hybrid frames. No suspension, budget front fork suspension to Fox air front forks, full suspension to Fox Air Float CDT Remote. Frame sizes from 43CM to 63CM.

As I say, that's just from the Amps stable!

Just like vanilla bikes, electric bikes come in many thousands of permutations in hundreds of price points. They all have their own very special characteristics. To say one is better than another is tricky, they are all so different and are built to do different jobs and to suit different people.

Even though I have so many bikes to choose from I ride a Wisper 905Torque to and from work, is it the best bike we sell? For me probably, that's why I choose to ride it. Is it the best bike for everyone, absolutely not.

Just a thought...

I do love this business!

All the best

David

 

[shemozzle999]

What and interesting and amusing thread! I have had to back off spending so much time here as I have had to concentrate on the business. Pedelecs is too addictive!

It is fun to see so many people discussing why the bike they have chosen is the best, but consider.

We (just us at Amps) sell bikes with six different motors...

1. High torque, "torque sensor" rear hub
2. Standard torque, "cadence sensor" rear hub
3. High torque, "torque sensor" front hub
4. Bosch Active (standard torque) mid motor
5. Bosch Performance (high torque) mid motor
6. Bosch performance CX (very high torque) mid motor

Then we then have twelve transmissions...

1. 7 speed Shimano Tourney
2. 8 speed Shimano Acerer
3. 9 Speed Shimano Sora
4. 10 speed Shimano Deore
5. 11 speed Shimano Deore XT
6. Shimano Nexus 7 hub
7. Shimano Nexus 8 hub
8. Rohloff 14 speed hub
9. Nuvinci 360 CVT
10. Nuvinci 380CVT
11. Nuvinci Automatic
12. Sram 27 speed dual drive

Five battery sizes

1. 300Wh
2. 375Wh
3. 400Wh
4. 500Wh
5. 575Wh

Five wheel/tyre sizes

1. 20"
2. 26"
3. 27.5"
4. 28"
5. 29"

Tyre withs from road to fat tyres. Step through frames, mixte frames, mountain bike frames, road bike frames, hybrid frames. No suspension, budget front fork suspension to Fox air front forks, full suspension to Fox Air Float CDT Remote. Frame sizes from 43CM to 63CM.

As I say, that's just from the Amps stable!

Just like vanilla bikes, electric bikes come in many thousands of permutations in hundreds of price points. They all have their own very special characteristics. To say one is better than another is tricky, they are all so different and are built to do different jobs and to suit different people.

Even though I have so many bikes to choose from I ride a Wisper 905Torque to and from work, is it the best bike we sell? For me probably, that's why I choose to ride it. Is it the best bike for everyone, absolutely not.

Just a thought...

I do love this business!

All the best

David

Everything people want with the exception of an independent throttle for the disadvantaged and elderly.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Oh I forgot about throttles....

As long as the pedals are bing turned forwards, the throttle is simply an assistance regulator. If a rider is exerting even 1 gram of pressure on the drive system and the pedals are turning, that is known as assistance not a full throttle. So as long as a rider can turn the pedals forward they can still have a full throttle.

 

[flecc]

From the point 4 of the MCWG meeting, 15 December 2015

"The ACEM representative pointed out that industry associations ACEM and Conebi had submitted their position paper addressing the issues of assistance factor 4 and powered cycles equipped with an accelerator handle. There is a need to further discuss these subjects in detail at the expert level in a next quadrilateral meeting"

I think I will still call it a throttle like millions of inhabitants of the planet appear to be comfortable with.

If they wish to be regarded as experts in the next meeting, they should get their terminology right. Since an e-bike throttle can only reduce the power, not increase it beyond the permitted level without a throtttle, it's a decelerator, not an accelerator.
.

 

[danielrlee]

Electric motors have fantastic torque and speed ranges,way better than ICE but put a multi gear ratio capability onto one and its torque application speed range has got to be increased.
Yes there are ways around it electrically if you don't want a gear box ( with diff ratios) but it nearly always means building motor way more powerful than needed and chucking loads of current at it initially. (especially so if started under load as bikes are)

What you are essentially discussing is efficiency. I hate to tell you this, but a correctly designed DD motor is inherently more efficient than a variable geared system.

The following link is a long thread on ES that tears apart the old myth of the need for gearing with an electric drive:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=47930&sid=414ab6b2143d1222b0fcbcb27e9997e2

 

[shemozzle999]

Oh I forgot about throttles....

As long as the pedals are bing turned forwards, the throttle is simply an assistance regulator. If a rider is exerting even 1 gram of pressure on the drive system and the pedals are turning, that is known as assistance not a full throttle. So as long as a rider can turn the pedals forward they can still have a full throttle.

So does the throttle override the torque sensing or does it apply only in the Fudge mode?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Only in the Fudge mode I'm afraid Shemozzle! Oh.... and in the Talk mode.

 

[Alan Quay]

If they wish to be regarded as experts in the next meeting, they should get their terminology right. Since an e-bike throttle can only reduce the power, not increase it beyond the permitted level without a throtttle, it's a decelerator, not an accelerator.
.

So, it's really a device for throttling the power delivery. There's probably a word for that.....

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[shemozzle999]

I think I will stick to my old technology electric bicycle then.

You sit on it and when you need assistance you twist the decelerator, it's a Wisper 705e

 

[tommie]

I went out on my maiden trip at the weekend on my shiny (now muddy!) new Wisper 905 Torque and I failed miserably to get up my first major hill. I'd only done about 100 yards and ran out of steam so had to give up the ghost and walk up using walk mode

Kevin, try to forget all the waffle and theory in this thread, i was in exactly the same position as yourself upon entering ebiking. Got myself a rear hub 250W bike with 48v 11Ah battery, totally, totally useless when it came to a major hill, they just aren`t man enough unless you have a decent level of fitness to push the darn thing to the top.
Now on top of all that you will have a few other problems - ever try changing a tube/flat on a hub motor?!! Spokes tend to loosen/break with a heavy hub on potholes etc. Affects the balance of the bike compared to the low centre of gravity of a mid-drive.

Found out the hard and expensive way, now have a mid-drive kit that`ll climb a wall.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thats correct Alan, much like the assistance levels on all electric bikes. The twist variety is more like CVT gearing.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Kevin, try to forget all the waffle and theory in this thread, i was in exactly the same position as yourself upon entering ebiking. Got myself a rear hub 250W bike with 48v 11Ah battery, totally, totally useless when it came to a major hill, they just aren`t man enough unless you have a decent level of fitness to push the darn thing to the top.
Now on top of all that you will have a few other problems - ever try changing a tube/flat on a hub motor?!! Spokes tend to loosen/break with a heavy hub on potholes etc. Affects the balance of the bike compared to the low centre of gravity of a mid-drive.

Found out the hard and expensive way, now have a mid-drive kit that`ll climb a wall.

Well said.!! Could not agree more. There is more BS pedalled on here than bikes.!!

Wife and I just back from Derbyshire. She hasn't cycled for 25 years. We did 19 miles and within that were a good deal of relatively hard climbing ( Howden res) She completed ride easy...on a borrowed Bosch mid drive.
Proof of pudding etc ...
Kevin..borrow a mid drive and report back.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Now I remember why I don't come here that often, obviously there are some of us that know absolutely nothing about ebikes, apparently me included!

Off home now, the guys have finished prepping another 27 Wispers and 4 Riese and Muller Bosch bikes to go out tomorrow. I think I'll try a CX tonight, it's the only Bosch that compares to my usual steed.

Come back Eddieo all is forgiven!!!!

Happy days!

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Moral of all this is make sure you try bike in environment you intend using it.