Kalkhoff Pro Connect Impulse 9 / 10 (9-G/10-G)

Tomtomato

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 28, 2015
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Yes indeed. If batteries were the same grade/quality, I am sure they will all be guaranteed for 2 years...

If the Woosh Krieger was as well built as a German bike, it would also be guaranteed for 2 years (and that's not having a go at that bike, just different price, quality and consumer target).

If AA batteries are that different between brands and advertised capacity (and nothing is more common than a AA battery), I can imagine cells in large batteries have the same variation. Then, there is the battery management, charger etc.

I would look after my bike battery the same way if it was a £1,000 bike, since I would try to keep the original battery going for a long time.
 
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trex

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May 15, 2011
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The cells may well be the same on some of the better Chinese bikes but the quality of construction and the engineering and sophistication in the batteries is different.

I don’t think any Chinese batteries are guaranteed for two years like Kalkhoff, and many Kalkhoff batteries are still going strong after six or more years. The sleep function for instance will allow it to still be fine even if not used for a whole winter. But a Chinese battery would be dead long before that if not regularly charged.
You start seeing new BMSes on Chinese batteries with SMBus functions (IC2, HDQ) and Bluetooth, then people will start looking after their batteries better.
Cyclezee and Kudos guarantee their batteries for two years, Woosh guarantee one year, it's down to marketing strategy. I suspect when Woosh start supplying to LBSes, they will have to extend their warranty to two years like most other suppliers.
 

Tomtomato

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Apr 28, 2015
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Maybe I am missing the point, but I can't really understand how much attention batteries need anyway. Apart from a full charge and discharge on the initial use (to condition the battery properly), does not seem to require much user input after that, as long as using and charging is within a normal temperature.

Modern batteries don't seem to have memory effect (can be charged in full at any time), so the battery care seems to be quite simple.
 
C

Cyclezee

Guest
The cells may well be the same on some of the better Chinese bikes but the quality of construction and the engineering and sophistication in the batteries is different.

I don’t think any Chinese batteries are guaranteed for two years like Kalkhoff, and many Kalkhoff batteries are still going strong after six or more years. The sleep function for instance will allow it to still be fine even if not used for a whole winter. But a Chinese battery would be dead long before that if not regularly charged.
eZee batteries have Sony cells and are covered by a 2 year warranty:)
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
many Kalkhoff batteries are still going strong after six or more years.
I can report that my 26v 8a battery from 2007 powering a Panasonic crank motor is down to three LEDs on the press and hold test from the five when new. That approximates to 60% of its original capacity and clearly doesn't permit long rides any more.

That said, another family member is using the bike regularly for his short commute in Cambridge and he enjoys it. He doesn't know what a hill is of course! He has ridden my other EAPCs and appreciates the greater power available in those but the Panasonic provides just enough assistance for his needs over easy terrain.

Tom
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,670
Maybe I am missing the point, but I can't really understand how much attention batteries need anyway. Apart from a full charge and discharge on the initial use (to condition the battery properly), does not seem to require much user input after that, as long as using and charging is within a normal temperature.

Modern batteries don't seem to have memory effect (can be charged in full at any time), so the battery care seems to be quite simple.
yes, you are right, batteries do not require much looking after.
The main cause of failure is swollen cells. If the cells are left too long to fend for themselves, dendrites form on the surface of their electrodes and when you charge the battery after a long dormant period, the cells produce gas where the dendrites formed - you only need one swollen cell to cause the BMS to shut the battery down. If you leave the battery dormant for 3 months, I would suggest to take it out for a ride to rid the cells of dendrites before charging it.
The second significant cause is damage to the BMS due to sparks. Poor contact, going over bumps etc can cause sparks. This is where good quality assembly is important.
 
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Tomtomato

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Apr 28, 2015
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I can report that my 26v 8a battery from 2007 powering a Panasonic crank motor is down to three LEDs on the press and hold test from the five when new.
Tom
I guess 60% of battery capacity remaining after 8 years is not bad at all! Unfortunately, 60% of a small 8Ah battery to start with is an issue.
 

RobF

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Sep 22, 2012
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I'm pleased with the performance of my Bosch batteries.

I've had the oldest one about three years and it still works as good as new - as far as I can tell from using it.

But I reckon the Chinese batteries have come on a bit recently.

The latest bottle ones with Panasonic cells should be as good as my Bosch batteries.

Cost then comes into it, a Bosch battery - if you can find my old style type - is about £500.

A larger capacity Chinese one is about half that.
 

Tomtomato

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 28, 2015
388
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Bike has gone to its first service now. They have fixed the creaking handle bar.

Apparently, even the first service/check after 100 km is not included and is to be charged to the customer, at £50 + parts (even when it's an obvious initial set-up issue). All subsequent services are also charged.

Luckily, most of the mechanical components of the bike are standard, so I can get those checked and fixed at a normal bike shop, which wouldn't charge such rip-off prices (£50 an hour for labour on a bicycle?).

I guess I was expecting some sort of after sale customer service to be included when buying a £2,400 bike (with a margin probably close to 50% for the shop), but my expectations were very high I guess...

The message I sent to Kalkhoff Germany a month ago has never been answered either. I am not sure why they have a contact us form on their website.

Bike is still going well, and I am achieving easily 100 miles per charge, when using the lowest assistance most of the time.
 

Simo

Pedelecer
Mar 30, 2015
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Bike has gone to its first service now. They have fixed the creaking handle bar.

Apparently, even the first service/check after 100 km is not included and is to be charged to the customer, at £50 + parts (even when it's an obvious initial set-up issue). All subsequent services are also charged.

Luckily, most of the mechanical components of the bike are standard, so I can get those checked and fixed at a normal bike shop, which wouldn't charge such rip-off prices (£50 an hour for labour on a bicycle?).

I guess I was expecting some sort of after sale customer service to be included when buying a £2,400 bike (with a margin probably close to 50% for the shop), but my expectations were very high I guess...

The message I sent to Kalkhoff Germany a month ago has never been answered either. I am not sure why they have a contact us form on their website.

Bike is still going well, and I am achieving easily 100 miles per charge, when using the lowest assistance most of the time.
Would be grateful if you have any ideas of how to stop my blooming annoying creak from the bars on mine, its driving me mad. I don't have a torque wrench yet but have seen one in Evans, its £60 odd quid which is dearer than your service. Not sure if trying that will solve my issue?? All advice welcome, regards.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Simo, I described my experience with handlebar creak back in post #33. To date, the annoying creak has not returned. Having spent a large chunk of my working life in mechanical engineering, I'm pretty familiar with spanners of all shapes and sizes and rarely ever resort to a torque wrench

If you actually know the settings for the bolts or set screws involved and you're unfamiliar with tightening bolts, perhaps you could borrow a torque wrench? Alternatively, any decent bike shop.....or Halfrauds.....would probably sort your creak for the price of a beer.......or in the case of the latter, perhaps a bag of Haribo mix.

Tom
 

Tomtomato

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 28, 2015
388
196
Would be grateful if you have any ideas of how to stop my blooming annoying creak from the bars on mine, its driving me mad. I don't have a torque wrench yet but have seen one in Evans, its £60 odd quid which is dearer than your service. Not sure if trying that will solve my issue?? All advice welcome, regards.
Yes, the creaking was really annoying me too. I don't know what they did, but it's gone now, apart from when pushing/pulling very hard on the handle bar.

I think £60 for a torque wrench looks expensive, many cheaper ones online.

I would just bring the bike back to a regular shop, and they can probably fix it in 10 minutes, if they know what they are doing.
 

Simo

Pedelecer
Mar 30, 2015
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Simo, I described my experience with handlebar creak back in post #33. To date, the annoying creak has not returned. Having spent a large chunk of my working life in mechanical engineering, I'm pretty familiar with spanners of all shapes and sizes and rarely ever resort to a torque wrench

If you actually know the settings for the bolts or set screws involved and you're unfamiliar with tightening bolts, perhaps you could borrow a torque wrench? Alternatively, any decent bike shop.....or Halfrauds.....would probably sort your creak for the price of a beer.......or in the case of the latter, perhaps a bag of Haribo mix.

Tom
Yes, the creaking was really annoying me too. I don't know what they did, but it's gone now, apart from when pushing/pulling very hard on the handle bar.

I think £60 for a torque wrench looks expensive, many cheaper ones online.

I would just bring the bike back to a regular shop, and they can probably fix it in 10 minutes, if they know what they are doing.
Thanks for replies to my issue, sadly I don't know what a fulcrum is? Are there any links to web pages that might help me solve this? Many thanks to all.
 

Roger R

Pedelecer
Jul 6, 2015
50
30
66
Hi - bought my Pro Connect 10 just over a week ago from 50Cycles after lots of research. I did my first full battery discharge as per instructions and got 85 miles mostly in Eco mode. Not close to 125 as in the blurb but ok. The guy in 50Cycles got it right when he said 60-90 miles. I then fully charged it and started using power mode up some local hills. Then the problem arose - a very worrying grinding/clicking noise from the pedal/motor area. This seems to only occur in power mode going up hills. I have recorded the sound and contacted 50Cycles (today) and am awaiting a response. Since then have found other similar problems on this forum. This is such a shame - other than this problem I am really pleased with the bike. However (and it's a big however) there really does seem to be a design issue here which a lot of users are having. Watch this space...
 

Tomtomato

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 28, 2015
388
196
I can probably do close to 100 miles on mine, in good conditions, flat paths and using eco mode only. The 125 mile claim is just not realistic indeed.

I haven't heard of that motor noise issue before. Mine is sometimes doing a clicking noise from the pedal area for a while, and then stops.

I really like the bike, and have done about 500 miles with it now. The most annoying thing is the creaking noise from the handlebar (which 50 cycles didn't really fix after the first service) and the saddle post.

I did truly appreciate the hydraulic brakes recently, when a car overtook me, turned left and cut me off. The bike slided a bit, but stopped well, without locking the wheels.
 
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Roger R

Pedelecer
Jul 6, 2015
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Thanks. I reckon the 100 miles will be achievable once the battery has done a few cycles. I really do hope the noise issue is resolvable though.
 

Roger R

Pedelecer
Jul 6, 2015
50
30
66
Hi - bought my Pro Connect 10 just over a week ago from 50Cycles after lots of research. I did my first full battery discharge as per instructions and got 85 miles mostly in Eco mode. Not close to 125 as in the blurb but ok. The guy in 50Cycles got it right when he said 60-90 miles. I then fully charged it and started using power mode up some local hills. Then the problem arose - a very worrying grinding/clicking noise from the pedal/motor area. This seems to only occur in power mode going up hills. I have recorded the sound and contacted 50Cycles (today) and am awaiting a response. Since then have found other similar problems on this forum. This is such a shame - other than this problem I am really pleased with the bike. However (and it's a big however) there really does seem to be a design issue here which a lot of users are having. Watch this space...
Just had a call from 50Cycles. Suggested I give it another two weeks to see if the motor 'beds in' and then to get back to them. I agreed and we will see! Also said that if the problem does not resolve they will take it in to look at it.
 

Roger R

Pedelecer
Jul 6, 2015
50
30
66
Update on the noise issue. Now done nearly 400 miles and problem not reoccurred. Have to say I am overall very pleased with bike. The last trip I covered 60 miles and had only used one third of the battery. I was on eco all the time and peddling hard but still pretty impressive. Also had a call from 50 cycles asking about the noise problem so can't fault their support. So onwards and upwards!
 
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Tomtomato

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 28, 2015
388
196
I am getting occasionally a clicking noise too from the pedal area/crank when the motor is in high power mode. Usually, pedaling in reverse for one rotation fixes the issue.

Bike is performing very well otherwise.
 
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One_Box

Pedelecer
Jul 29, 2014
171
64
Leominster
I don't think I was completely wrong in my statements.

But no, I am not going to buy a Chinese 17Ah battery, and measure the difference with my Kalkhoff one. Very different prices, different grades of products.
My personal experience leads me to disagree with you.

I have a Kalkoff with a 17Ah battery, a 15Ah Woosh battery on my Pashley Parabike self build and OH has a 10Ah battery on her Woosh Petite. The only battery to cause problems has been the Kalkoff, I'm on the 2nd one since March and am not entirely convinced the problems are yet over ( I need to leave the battery off the bike for another 2 weeks to see if it maintains its charge or is flat again as it was last time after leaving the bike for 3 weeks. )

As for value, well no contest. A new Kalkoff 17Ah battery costs in the region of £800 - totally ludicrous - I would rather put the bike in a skip rather than pay that sort of money again.
 

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