Major Momentum New Supplier on Ebay

[OxygenJames]

James, again I admire your supportive spirit; however I can only imagine the scenario....Joe public buys a bike and let's say a hall sensor fails, or it has even a basic wiring fault; what then? The vendor either has to be able to fix the bike himself or employ somebody who can do the job. Option 1 would not be something you could learn "on the job" quickly enough to keep the customer happy and option 2 is expensive for the vendor and I cannot imagine would work with bikes at this price point/profit margin etc. To me it just looks doomed to fail when problems cannot be resolved and customers ultimately run away. He will perhaps be able to shift a load of stock initially, make some money but in my opinion never be able to keep customers happy.

Well sure - in that scenario they should either fix it or swap it - if they use another bike they could swap components over till it works without my know-how other than some basic scientific principles....... then keep that bike in case other things go wrong with other bikes etc...... it wouldn't take much to figure it out. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt till they prove me wrong. We shall see.

 

[aeschylus]

Main picture is a tad mis leading as well, as it's not them in the picture and the Chinese sign on the wall leads my detective qualities to summarise this is in fact the Chinese warehouse

 

[vectra]

I just had a little skim through their promotional video on eBay. You'd have to be bonkers to buy a bike from those guys, they clearly know nothing about the product that thy are selling. I LOVE the attempt to fold the bike at 11 mins....absolutely hilarious and enough to put anybody off. All components look about as cheap and basic as possible. I very much doubt that those bikes would survive many trips in the environment in which they are demonstrated.

Hey. These guys exist in the trade already. In the past 12 months or so I've spoken to and met with them at quite a number of dealerships. Strikes me that these particular guys make no pretence at taking themselves too seriously and I would guess that time and customers will tell narrate the experience.

As for a battery in the wheel. Well, we'll be talking about front wheel drive cars soon, tinternet and all manner of strange goings on such as Greece joining the Euro.

 

[jazper53]

Hey. These guys exist in the trade already. In the past 12 months or so I've spoken to and met with them at quite a number of dealerships. Strikes me that these particular guys make no pretence at taking themselves too seriously and I would guess that time and customers will tell narrate the experience.

As for a battery in the wheel. Well, we'll be talking about front wheel drive cars soon, tinternet and all manner of strange goings on such as Greece joining the Euro.

Or maybe winning the Euros

 

[Scimitar]

Talking of incompetent but aren't the forks on this back to front?

Add that to the one on here yesterday and we have evidence of a Hipster craze
"My bike's too cool to steer at all."

 

[benjy_a]

This is all well and good if we were talking about a cheap and cheerful £400-500 bike where the buyer should perhaps be expected to accept a lower level of support and service in exchange for a genuine initial bargain.

I don't think £750 is cheap; it's a lot of money to even contemplate spending on a bike for many people. I can't for the life of me think why anybody would choose to risk their money on these when you can get for example a Juicy Sport for 40 quid more with existing dealer network, associated warranty and track record.

 

[OxygenJames]

This is all well and good if we were talking about a cheap and cheerful £400-500 bike where the buyer should perhaps be expected to accept a lower level of support and service in exchange for a genuine initial bargain.

I don't think £750 is cheap; it's a lot of money to even contemplate spending on a bike for many people. I can't for the life of me think why anybody would choose to risk their money on these when you can get for example a Juicy Sport for 40 quid more with existing dealer network, associated warranty and track record.

Well.......... I've heard nothing but good things about Juicy bikes but my view is that more and more it comes down to how bikes look. Yes look.

So batteries on the rack or as a rack are surely on the way out - even batteries behind the saddle stem (a la Oxygen and many others) - especially if they stick out above the top of the frame - I'd say on the way out too....... saddles that look like they were designed for folks who need to watch their carbs a little more diligently... on the way out.... handlebars that look like something from a bike my Mum rode in the 1940's....... on the way out.

And so what's coming 'in'?

Well if we're going on looks then that battery HAS to somehow be incorporated into the overall looks - so bottle Cytronex type/Burisch type are in - as are possibly very small rectangular ones situated behind the frame..... or sexy looking crank arrangements like the Haibike or some of the bikes Dave's selling at Kudos (the Cross or Xenion for example) - etc.....

Come-on - look at cars these days - how cool/hot/sporty/sexy do even the most practical ones look these days? Pretty much ALL of them! Vanity and 'don't I look good in this' is not confined to ladies clothing - it's the way of the world and so if your products still have big fat batteries destroying any of the natural lines of the bike or anything else that does not say 'hey what about me?' - then I humbly suggest you're not going to be the market leader in 2 let alone 5 or 10 years.

Just my opinion.

 

[jerrysimon]

I would go even further and say hide the controller and batteries. Everything in my Bag up front with umbilical. This keeps the original look of the bike.

Bike not to everyone's taste, but the frame bag holds controller and battery hidden away as well.

Of course although looks may be important if it is used every day then reliability comes into play as well!

Regards

Jerry

 

[benjy_a]

Well.......... I've heard nothing but good things about Juicy bikes but my view is that more and more it comes down to how bikes look.

I do agree with all you say and that aesthetics are important but that's all subjective...we were discussing value in relation to product support, not personal taste.

Incidentally for me, the electric bike is purely a tool for commuting and style is not a consideration. (Which is why my car is just about the most impractical, inefficient 3L 2 seater fun machine! )

 

[flecc]

So batteries on the rack or as a rack are surely on the way out - even batteries behind the saddle stem (a la Oxygen and many others) - especially if they stick out above the top of the frame - I'd say on the way out too........... handlebars that look like something from a bike my Mum rode in the 1940's....... on the way out.

Very unlikely. In frame batteries are far too small very often, Cytronex 162 Wh, Powabyke X-bike 234 Wh, Bosch 288 Wh. Even rack batteries can be a bit too small for many. The great advantage of the rear of seatpost setup is having batteries up to 740 Wh, yet with the weight sitting low down, roughly central between the wheels with a slight rear wheel bias which is preferable for handling. As the Panasonic unit bikes show, they don't have to stick out above the frame, even with very large capacities up to 624 Wh, and some of them can look stylish too.

You mention cars, but desirable car styling once included long bonnets and a powerful image, and a glimpse then at some of today's snub bonnet bulky passenger compartment cars would have caused derision. This shows that people can get used to the practical and eventually regard it as stylish.

E-bikes are too rare and not used widely enough for this to happen at present, but if they ever become de rigeur, practicality will win out eventually and be regarded as style.

And handlebars? There will always be comfort bars, and as the Netherlands show, the more cycling and e-biking there is, the more that comfort bars are used.

 

[mike killay]

I cannot help but notice the numbers of middle aged men droning along the local cycle paths on mountain style bikes fitted with knobbly tyres.
They never go off road and the only conclusion I can reach is that they have bought these bikes because that is what is available, and not what is most suitable for their needs.
Often, they come out for one season and then that is the end of their cycling days.
The more experienced older cyclists favour smoother tyres, padded saddles and higher handlebars with a bit of bend in them to put the wrists at a better angle and ease pressure on the back. Often these features have been changed from the originals.
Besides myself, two other men ride bikes to the local pub. Both have made their bikes more comfortable by changing features. Both bikes are high end lightweights with hydraulic brakes, carbon forks etc.

 

[eddieo]

One of my favourite bikes at the moment. Bulls green mover copperhead model (bit of a mouthful but a fantastic bike)

choice of 10, 13, 16 Ah batteries

 

[GaRRy]

Very unlikely.

Can't say I totally agree BH bought out the emotion NEO range because market research told them there was a demand for e-bikes that did not shout out I'm a e-bike by having a great big obvious battery pack and my understanding they are selling in large numbers.

I do agree this certainly won't be the norm for sometime but as/when battery technology improves I would not be surprised if it batteries in frame eventually came to dominate.

As for the handlebars etc I'm with you there will always be more people wanting a comfortable easy to use vehicle than a soup up uncomfortable speed machine. Although maybe the number of MTB and 4 wheel drive cars prove that style/bling/pose will win over practicality far to often

 

[Woosh]

Very unlikely. In frame batteries are far too small very often, Cytronex 162 Wh, Powabyke X-bike 234 Wh, Bosch 288 Wh. Even rack batteries can be a bit too small for many. The great advantage of the rear of seatpost setup is having batteries up to 740 Wh, yet with the weight sitting low down, roughly central between the wheels with a slight rear wheel bias which is preferable for handling. As the Panasonic unit bikes show, they don't have to stick out above the frame, even with very large capacities up to 624 Wh, and some of them can look stylish too.

You mention cars, but desirable car styling once included long bonnets and a powerful image, and a glimpse then at some of today's snub bonnet bulky passenger compartment cars would have caused derision. This shows that people can get used to the practical and eventually regard it as stylish.

E-bikes are too rare and not used widely enough for this to happen at present, but if they ever become de rigeur, practicality will win out eventually and be regarded as style.

And handlebars? There will always be comfort bars, and as the Netherlands show, the more cycling and e-biking there is, the more that comfort bars are used.

In-frame batteries (like on Woosh Zephyr) have an additional problem: difficult or impossible to take the battery indoors for recharging or prior to putting the bike into a car.
I think that the issue is not so much the volume of the batteries and the solution (as we are working on a new model at the moment) is to be able to easily remove as much of the electrics (not just the battery) as possible from the bike when not riding. Thus no obvious cabling will be left on the bike.

 

[flecc]

Can't say I totally agree BH bought out the emotion NEO range because market research told them there was a demand for e-bikes that did not shout out I'm a e-bike by having a great big obvious battery pack and my understanding they are selling in large numbers.

Yes, choice there will always be for the style and image concious, but I'm betting the rear of seatpost battery will be with us for a long time yet for those who want long range or less frequent charge convenience. Many don't care about their bike being seen as an e-model, I prefer it and am not ashamed of it. Once I was a cyclist for 57 years, now I've been an e-biker for 9 years and don't pretend to be a cyclist.

 

[Hero Eco]

We can all learn a lot from that video....

 

[jazper53]

Yes, choice there will always be for the style and image concious, but I'm betting the rear of seatpost battery will be with us for a long time yet for those who want long range or less frequent charge convenience. Many don't care about their bike being seen as an e-model, I prefer it and am not ashamed of it. Once I was a cyclist for 57 years, now I've been an e-biker for 9 years and don't pretend to be a cyclist.

Sounds Like a cue for a song......I'm a e-biker and I'm okay. I sleep all night and I work all day.

 

[mike killay]

One of my favourite bikes at the moment. Bulls green mover copperhead model (bit of a mouthful but a fantastic bike)

choice of 10, 13, 16 Ah batteries

I think Eddio may have hit the proverbial nail here.
Many people will like the look of this bike. If they use it for its intended purpose (apparently off road) they will be delighted.
For the more sedate and geriatric of us, it looks absolutely terrifying.
Collis fracture handlebars, haemorrhoid saddle, energy sapping tyres, lower back problem riding posture!

 

[GaRRy]

Yes, choice there will always be for the style and image concious, but I'm betting the rear of seatpost battery will be with us for a long time yet for those who want long range or less frequent charge convenience. Many don't care about their bike being seen as an e-model, I prefer it and am not ashamed of it. Once I was a cyclist for 57 years, now I've been an e-biker for 9 years and don't pretend to be a cyclist.

But most purchases are made are based on style and image. How any people buying a TV are really buying it based on picture quality ?. I still have a 36 inch CRT at home and it still beats the pants of most LED/LCD/Plasma screens for picture quality. Cars are still mainly sold on style and looks (although environmental attributes seem fairly important at moment but I reckon thats mainly because of how company car tax / road tax system works) etc etc

Just for the record I did not buy the NEO for its looks but because for me it was the best bike I tried (it was not even on my shopping list till I tried it). Still using the urban mover as well and no intention of getting rid. While cant claim I was ever much of a cyclist I certainly dont see myelf as one now and certainly not trying to pretend to be one.

I have been trying to think of a term for what I do and as a aging motorcyclist e-biker fits quite nice .

 

[jazper53]

I think Eddio may have hit the proverbial nail here.
Many people will like the look of this bike. If they use it for its intended purpose (apparently off road) they will be delighted.
For the more sedate and geriatric of us, it looks absolutely terrifying.
Collis fracture handlebars, haemorrhoid saddle, energy sapping tyres, lower back problem riding posture!

Don't frighten me, except maybe the price ?