My Dilemma......

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
There's nothing to stop you using a different battery on a bike. For example with the Cytronex, the bottle battery might be good for shorter rides with a Ping LiFePO4 lurking in a pannier on longer trips. That could be an excellent solution (for a rider willing and able to make a significant power contribution themselves).
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
There's nothing to stop you using a different battery on a bike. For example with the Cytronex, the bottle battery might be good for shorter rides with a Ping LiFePO4 lurking in a pannier on longer trips. That could be an excellent solution (for a rider willing and able to make a significant power contribution themselves).
have seen talk of this "ping" battery,and have been meaning to ask what is it about....So could I have a longer battery lead for the cytronex and have a ping on a pannier?

what is the size/weight and cost of a ping? are they powerful and please where do you get them.
 
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felix

Pedelecer
Mar 16, 2008
37
7
Hi Eddieo,

regarding the Cytronex, I find the supplied bottle battery is adequate for my daily commute, getting to work and back on a single charge. If more range was required I'd take the charger and top the battery up at work, 1.5 hrs for a full charge. This would give a potential assisted range of up to 40 miles. By the same method, the addition of a second bottle battery (clipped to the seat tube) could extend the distance to 80 miles. This is a sort of modular approach whereby for shorter distances, you can opt to travel lighter on one battery pack.

From Mark's previous posts, I believe the battery type has been selected in preference to lithium for it's discharge characteristics, with heavy duty connection cables used. It may be that extending the cables to the back and changing the battery type may not gain much real benefit. I would be interested to hear others views on this.

Regards,
Mike
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,766
30,351
It's correct that the discharge characteristics of NiMh are often better than lithium in small batteries, but it's not true if the batteries are the same weight, the lithium one then being higher capacity and a bit larger. The Cytronex battery could be at least 9 Ah if the same weight.

I disagree very strongly on the range and think this is misleading for most users Mike. The majority of e-bikers wouldn't get anything remotely like 40 miles, and that's why the designer doesn't claim anything like that.

This is especially important for a user like Eddie who has said earlier in the thread that for health reasons he needs the performance to be a bit moped like, just wanting a bike like appearance with that. Used in a moped like way, the Cytronex 4.3 Ah on the Tongxin motor would only give around 10 to 13 miles range.

It's precisely this sort of misleading claim that I warned about at the outset, having seen so many others disappointed by such claims after spending large sums to find a product no good for them.
.
 

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
Hi Eddieo,
You could certainly use a Ping or other 36v battery by adding a longer wire (indeed it need not necessarily be longer than the existing one, depending on where you join, but the wire length makes no difference in practice (and virtually none in theory)).
Ping batteries are sold by Mr Ping via eBay and otherwise. They are reasonably priced - my 10Ah 36v was about £155 delivered to the UK. They've received good reviews on this site and elsewhere but have not been around very long so no-one can be certain of eventual life. There's more info on this site but I'm travelling now so can't search, but will check back when I'm at my computer.

Mike,
A longer wire would be no problem (in the same way as a kettle still boils if you use an extension lead!), a larger battery would give better performance because it would be under less stress and a 36v Li, which is actually 37.2v would make the bike go slightly faster!
A really helpful piece of data would be to know what range you get from a Cytronex if you ride without pedalling? I appreciate you may not use it like that, but if prospective buyers knew that, they could make a better assessment of how much extra they'd be likely to add via leg-power.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
I Googled "ping" and had a look, they look a little DIY for me lol. OK if you don't mind tinkering, but it's not even in a robust case. I like the look of infinium with stackable batteries but have seen criticism as batteries only 6Amp and the price with extra battery.......I may as well get a wisper - if they can do one in silver for me:)

Just had a look at wisper website and manual, and it says "90kg max weight" well.... I am 110kg :-(

Will the bike work with me on it, or will it stop at the base of hills lol
 
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felix

Pedelecer
Mar 16, 2008
37
7
Flec, I understand where you are coming from. I would never try to intentionally mislead anyone on the forum. The range I stated was about 20 miles per charge not 40, which is what the designer claim and has been achieved, maybe suprisingly, by other forum members.

Edieo, I'm sorry I didn't pick up that you have health problems, I think Flec was right to point that out to me and on reflection you would be better off with a more "moped capable" setup.

Frank, I was thinking about voltage drop with the extended cable but the extra ping voltage would probably compensate.

Thanks for all the info, when my battery finally gives out I may well consider getting converted to lithium!!:D

All the best,
Mike
 

ElephantsGerald

Pedelecer
Mar 17, 2008
168
0
Herefordshire, HR2
Just had a look at wisper website and manual, and it says "90kg max weight" well.... I am 110kg :-(

Will the bike work with me on it, or will it stop at the base of hills lol
Brizzleboy was 105kg (16.5 stone) when he joined the forum. He has a 905SE Sport and seems very happy with it.

He's reported getting up Park Street in Bristol (which is pretty steep) without any problems, so on that basis you should be fine getting up hills on a 905SE.

Regards,

Elephants
 

Blew it

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2008
1,472
97
Swindon, Wiltshire
Eddieo

Just a quicky.

Since posting that pic of the "handsome brute" on the Wisper 905 GTS thread, I have been contacted by a gentleman who is currently awaiting delivery of a shipment of ALL SILVER Tucano's, These machines are expected in about 5 weeks.

At the moment, I don't know how he is going to market them, I'll just have to keep an eye on the usual outlets. Specs the same as on the Spanish website.

One final point. The Tucano frame is NOTHING like a Wisper, and therefore should not be seen as a "clone", but it does share a similar, slightly inferior electrical spec.

Cheers

Bob
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,766
30,351
Flec, I understand where you are coming from. I would never try to intentionally mislead anyone on the forum. The range I stated was about 20 miles per charge not 40, which is what the designer claim and has been achieved, maybe suprisingly, by other forum members.
Understood Mike, I took it to be 40 per charge of course, but I know many get 20 miles and more per charge once they are accustomed to the bike and how to use it to best effect.
.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
Just a quicky.

Since posting that pic of the "handsome brute" on the Wisper 905 GTS thread, I have been contacted by a gentleman who is currently awaiting delivery of a shipment of ALL SILVER Tucano's, These machines are expected in about 5 weeks.

At the moment, I don't know how he is going to market them, I'll just have to keep an eye on the usual outlets. Specs the same as on the Spanish website.

One final point. The Tucano frame is NOTHING like a Wisper, and therefore should not be seen as a "clone", but it does share a similar, slightly inferior electrical spec.

Cheers

Bob
Silver is good news.

Could it be the chap from E Bikes I wonder.....as he was expecting a new style bike within a few months and it was about a month ago I spoke to him. they have a model on th website called the "Fly" which look a lot like the wisper but £650..... I to believe it wrong to call these similar bikes clones as they seem to be generically available in China. Chicken and egg springs to mind:)

The Tucano, how does the spec compare with the wisper? has it a smaller battery and will the performance be much worse?


Thanks about weight info Gerald....:D
 
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Blew it

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2008
1,472
97
Swindon, Wiltshire
Hi Eddy,

Yes, I think it's the same chap. The photo he sent showed an "Ebikes Voyager". Have a look on the Tucano Carrera site, I know it's in Spanish but you can get the general idea. It seems almost identicle but the battery is probably the Lishen 13 a/h.

Is it any good? haven't a clue Eddy, you pays your money and takes your chance I guess.

The Wisper 905's good though! Have PM'd you

Cheers

Bob
 
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poppy

Pedelecer
Jun 9, 2008
245
0
74
Covas, Ferrol. La Coruña. Spain
Silver is good news.

Could it be the chap from E Bikes I wonder.....as he was expecting a new style bike within a few months and it was about a month ago I spoke to him. they have a model on th website called the "Fly" which look a lot like the wisper but £650..... I to believe it wrong to call these similar bikes clones as they seem to be generically available in China. Chicken and egg springs to mind:)

The Tucano, how does the spec compare with the wisper? has it a smaller battery and will the performance be much worse?


Thanks about weight info Gerald....:D
Hi! I´m Poppy. I´ve got the T. Carrera since mid December. Been using it daily (10/12 km). I can tell you that I´m not satisfied with it. From the very start its motor stuttered and stalled on long but not very steep hills. Steep hills would be very hard work. Battery gauge unreliable. Components got loose constantly.It feels more heavy than indicated in the specs. Poor brakes which screeches no matter what. Motor makes all kind of stranges noises. And last but not least, horrible after sales services, unanswered mails, bullshitting etc. I surely hope the Wisper is much better, ´cause i plan to buy one.
Regards.
PS Batteries cost more than 350 euros.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
I've sent you another PM. I will Email "voyager" photo to you

cheers

Bob
I agree looks nothing like the wisper...BUT the "fly" on E bike web site does look like it I think? link: E-bikesUK - Fly

and so does the Tocano "uomo". But the Carrera ( your handsome beast:)) is a different more conventional style electric bike.

This is the tucano carrera, what do you guys think of spec?

Engine: 250 W Brushless (With recharge system in downhill)
Battery: 36V 12Ah
Range: 50-65 km
Weight battery: 3.8 Kg
Type battery: Li - Ion
Capacity: 120 kg (blimey!)
Consumption 100 km: 1kW / h
Voltage Charger: 220V
Recharging Time: 6 hours
Weight without battery: 17.2 kg
Wheel Diameter: 26 "
Power adjustable zoom mark
Seatpost with zoom amoriguacion
Amortiguacion front TGS 140 (route 90mm)
6 leds Indicators of a battery 6 leds
Change of speed: Shimano Tourney, 6-speed + 1 mega range
Command change of speed: SIS INDEX
160cm Brakes discs: Striker Rear 180cm and 160cm
6-8 leds Light front and back leds 6-8
Porta including baggage

Action: Largo High 78 cm x 182 cm x 61 cm width
 
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eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
update.....

Well, got a bit excited yesterday with the news regards new Giant bikes, soon brought back to earth lol by Flecc! Very disappointed as it looked like what I was looking for...

The dilemma continues, I have alway said I would prefer a European bike preferably with front motor and button throttle. But even if I up the budget none have a throttle I believe?? There are a few new bikes coming out but they don’t look like they have the battery capacity I am looking for.

I can get a generic Chinese bike of the wisper/Tucano type. Like Bob, Blew it's "Handsome beast" which may do.....These can be had at nearly half the price of the wisper and someone on here has a “fly” and is pleased with it. Spec slightly inferior but at the price and my leisure only requirement maybe good enough. and at the price enough in the kitty to upgrade at local bike shop (De ever cycles...if they can stop laughing)

But I don’t like the cheap Chinese styling or the rear drive and all my weight on the back wheel. I have heard that rear wheel spokes are a weakness on these style bikes and that was from a dealer.


This bring me to kits. A reasonable spec “specialized” or “Trek” for approx £500? Plus an Alien kit, still have a bike for under £1000.....will it do what I want?

Or a Heinemann kit for £1000 and the same bike. What do you think? As I am starting to get desperate.......

Should probably consider the Ezee kit as well, any opinion on that?


My deadline is beginning of October as holiday at end of that month.
 
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Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,212
2,174
68
Sevenoaks Kent
Ebikes UK Fly

I must say I am flattered by all these copies, shame we didn't register the design! :rolleyes:

Do members feel I should justify the difference in price or is it as obvious to you as it is to me? Don't forget if you need a cheaper version of a great bike we do have the 905 Eco.

Hi Eddieo, can I help regarding the "inferior" electrical system?

Regards David
 

Blew it

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2008
1,472
97
Swindon, Wiltshire
Confusion reigns,

Oh dear, I think I started all this when I posted a photo on the Wisper 905 GTS thread of an unknown machine which I called "The handsome brute". This photo provided the inspiration in the "look" for my 905 GTS.

The "handsome brute" was then identified by another member, Poppy, as the Tucano Carrera. (which it is)

The Tucano Carrera uses the same motor and control system as the 905, but in a unique frame and a very much smaller Phylion battery, and therefore is inferior to the Wisper 905 SE on the battery size alone.

Further confusion followed when Poppy claimed the Tucano Carrera is a Wisper clone, which it most certainly is not. I am fairly certain now, that Poppy purchased a Tucano "FLY" from the same supplier, which is an abominable copy of the Wisper 905. The origins of the Fly/Strongman machine has already been well documented on here.

There are three entirely different and seperate machines involved in this confusion:

1) The inimitable and highly superior Wisper 905 SE.

2) A machine identical to the Tucano Carrera available soon in the UK, with an inferior spec to the Wisper 905 due to the much smaller Phylion battery.

3) An abominable clone of the Wisper 905 marketed as the Tucano Fly and Strongman.

Poppy, I'm sure you will want to comment on what I have posted here, but if you do, you MUST explain EXACTLY which machine you own and are so dissatisfied with. I suspect it is the "Fly". NOT the Carrera. There are machines on the market that justly deserve criticism, but in doing so, as a matter of respect to the manufacturers, you should ensure that everybody knows exactly which machine you are so unhappy with.

I'm already regreting posting that photo of "The Brute", It was never intended to cause any confusion. I have the greatest respect for David and the guys at WEVCO, and I just hope that this clears things up.

Best wishes to all

Bob, A very happy Wisper 905 GTS owner.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
Hi Eddieo, can I help regarding the "inferior" electrical system?

Regards David
By all means, I need all the help I can get! lol

But I am considering a kit now...... will probably start a fresh thread on the subject.

Bob aka Blew it, the new E Bike has the same motor as the wisper but with a smaller capacity Philyion 36v 10amp battery. bearing in mind my lack of knowledge...will this not have a respectable range? or is this battery not well regarded?

Eddie
 
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Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,212
2,174
68
Sevenoaks Kent
Electrics

Hi Eddio

Do you have a specific question regarding the electrics?

Our kit will be ready in the new year, shame we will be too late.

Best regards David