OXYGEN kit- exclusive previews

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,211
2,174
68
Sevenoaks Kent
Hi.
Uncalled for? The manner in which this kit has been brought to market is questionable. It's called "warming the market" and has the effect of misleading both potential end users and other suppliers.

Let me see? If you call a plumber and he arrives 18 months later do you forgive him because his van was off the road? For any supplier to potentially deliver a product this late (and don't forget the quote is "later this year") i.e 2012, illustrates poor planning and product management.

I hope that the kit does eventually launch as a 100 per cent finished product but how could any potential customer have any faith in this yet to be completed product?

Regards
vectra
You are totally mistaken if you think we are sophisticated enough to warm the market Vectra!!

We simply found there were some problems, so we pulled DaaHub off the shelves at considerable expense. We didn't think it was moral to let you guys or anyone else to spend a not inconsiderable amount of money on one of our products and be disappointed.

It is amazing how when even acting in an honest and honorable fashion can be be so badly misconstrued. I suppose it is an unfortunate sign of the times that people will always try and find fault even when a business is working hard to be decent!

All the best

David
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,763
30,349
It's worth considering that the Dapu motor used in the Daahub kit has been on the market for some while and performs well. I'm sure that the delays are development ones as Jerry suggests and are specific to the combination of components within the kit. The synergy of those is vital and worth waiting for.

It's not just the Daahub kit that's suffered delays for these reasons, there was a long gap between an announcement of an eZee kit and the product, currently the Oxygen kit has been a long time coming, and the Cytronex kit has been so long awaited that it's in danger of passing into the realms of mythical legends.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
and the Cytronex kit has been so long awaited that it's in danger of passing into the realms of mythical legends.
I do wonder if this is deliberate or at least they are not giving it priority as their ready made bikes are probably a very profitable business given all the publicity. All speculation on my part of course.

That said with the fragility of the Tongxin motors I guess it would be even harder to get it right in terms of plug and play and the chances of high volume kit returns would be greater.

If you recall a reseller (I forget his name from Germany moved to China I think) he stopped selling them because of high volume returns and sold his last few off without warranties!

Despite all that I still love Tongxin motors :p

Regards

Jery
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,211
2,174
68
Sevenoaks Kent
Hi Jerry and Flecc

One of the big problems with kits is exactly as Jerry has mentioned. If they are built to be installed by the end user, everything needs to be perfect in form and function. If a kit is misfitted and subsequently does not work, who is responsible for fixing the problem? Does the manufacturer take the whole bike and fit the kit properly? Who would pay for this? If the kit is broken due to the incorrect fitting who is responsible for the warranty? Should there even be a warranty? And then of course there is public liability insurance, a whole new can of worms.

Kits are certainly more difficult to produce and market than a complete "ready to go" electric bike, they must be foolproof and very easily fitted if the manufacturer is to stay in business. We must remember that not everyone that will buy a kit is as well informed as the average Pedelec contributor.

The reason that Anthony designed DaaHub was every kit he bought in to sell either needed serious work on the bike to fit such as drilling holes in the frame etc and/or would fall apart within the first few weeks of use. If a customer was to ruin the frame due to the drill holes, the converted bike would also be out of warranty, would the kit manufacturer be liable?

Most kits currently on the market have to be fitted professionally, some can take a day or so to do. What we are trying to do with DaaHub is produce a "plug and play" kit that can be easily fitted and taken off the bike without destroying or compromising the frame. We cannot put such a product on the shelves until we are 100% satisfied with every aspect. I imagine all those who are producing a similar product are experiencing the same issues and being just as cautious as we.

All the best

David
 

vectra

Pedelecer
Feb 5, 2011
213
5
You are totally mistaken if you think we are sophisticated enough to warm the market Vectra!!

We simply found there were some problems, so we pulled DaaHub off the shelves at considerable expense. We didn't think it was moral to let you guys or anyone else to spend a not inconsiderable amount of money on one of our products and be disappointed.

It is amazing how when even acting in an honest and honorable fashion can be be so badly misconstrued. I suppose it is an unfortunate sign of the times that people will always try and find fault even when a business is working hard to be decent!

All the best

David
hi.
I cast no doubt against your integrity. I do cast doubt about the concept that any company be it Wisper or Cytronex ( as examples) can prelaunch kits which prove, as time scales will verify, that the kits were little more than vapourware when originally publicised.

I read that New Zealand Post has taken up these kits. Unless they are using a completely different set up then I have difficulty in understanding how a kit which is not yet ready for market can be sold into the NZ Post.

By the way, I would issue the same verdict against any company which acts this way. Be it Wisper or anyone else.

You state that it seems that it is a sign of the times that people will try and find fault when a company is working hard to be decent? Why not wait until the kit was actually built, tested and proven before you marketed it?

Would you have done the same with a complete bike such as the 905 and if so imagine the impact on your business should it have failed your customers?

So, please don't attempt to take the moral high ground just in order to detract from your own failings.
Regards
Vectra
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,763
30,349
If you recall a reseller (I forget his name from Germany moved to China I think) he stopped selling them because of high volume returns and sold his last few off without warranties!
Yes, that was Frank, forum name mechaniker.
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,211
2,174
68
Sevenoaks Kent
Vectrix, I would never assume to take moral high ground over you! I was simply stating the facts and I am certain that you can appreciate how disappointing it is to be vilified for doing the right thing?

The launch product was certainly very solid, not at all vapourous! Unfortunately a couple of quite complicated issues were discovered due to the increased power from 13 to 17A. This was an oversight by yours truly, for which I take full responsibility, extensive testing was carried out on the 13A version but obviously not enough on the 17A and it was the 17A I chose to take to market. An error that has cost us dearly interms of re programming and lost revenue.

FYI, the units being used by NZPO are the original 13A systems and have been specifically designed for the use of their delivery guys so are different to the DaaHub being sold for public use.

Regarding the 905, I can assure you that if we had such issues with any product, we would act in the same responsible manner. If we find an issue we will always correct it before selling product. We have occasionally had the unhappy issue of not discovering a problem until product is on the market. Believe me it is far better fo all involved if any such issues are discovered and fixed before a product reaches the end user.

All the best

David
 

vectra

Pedelecer
Feb 5, 2011
213
5
Vectrix, I would never assume to take moral high ground over you! I was simply stating the facts and I am certain that you can appreciate how disappointing it is to be vilified for doing the right thing?

The launch product was certainly very solid, not at all vapourous! Unfortunately a couple of quite complicated issues were discovered due to the increased power from 13 to 17A. This was an oversight by yours truly, for which I take full responsibility, extensive testing was carried out on the 13A version but obviously not enough on the 17A and it was the 17A I chose to take to market. An error that has cost us dearly interms of re programming and lost revenue.

FYI, the units being used by NZPO are the original 13A systems and have been specifically designed for the use of their delivery guys so are different to the DaaHub being sold for public use.

Regarding the 905, I can assure you that if we had such issues with any product, we would act in the same responsible manner. If we find an issue we will always correct it before selling product. We have occasionally had the unhappy issue of not discovering a problem until product is on the market. Believe me it is far better fo all involved if any such issues are discovered and fixed before a product reaches the end user.

All the best

David
Hi.

I thought my user name was "vectra". "Vectrix"? Not sure I know where you are going with that!

Anyhow, not important.

"Vilified"? A liitle sensitive Don't you think?

So, I highlight the failings in the launch of this kit and you then become the victim. I arrived here after a long search for a suitable kit, having studied and then dismissed a number of others. I then dismissed the DaaHub as a consequence of the cost involved only to revisit it a couple of days ago when I read about the Oxydrive. I'm certain that you are aware by now that I won't become a Wisper customer and in return I accept that you will be none to unhappy about that. Customer confidence is important. Once it has gone it's difficult to rebuild it.

So, there are more important things to be getting on with as I'm sure you will agree so thank you for your responses ( many would not have done so) and it's been educational.

Onward and upward!
Regards
Vectra
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,211
2,174
68
Sevenoaks Kent
Sorry Vectra, no idea where Vectrix came from, and yes vilified may be a bit strong! Just tired and emotional today! I am more than a little embarrassed about the delayed launch of DaaHub, you caught a nerve. All I can say is it will be worth the wait.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to state my case!

All the best
David
 

Oxygen Bicycles

Trade Member
Feb 18, 2010
304
20
www.oxygenbicycles.com
Hi David, Vectra and all of you.

From my point of you David's decision was the right one to stop flooding the market with the product that could have some downsides. Firstly it could cost Wisper a lot more if hundreds of kits would be coming back to them, secondly the bad name would remain so from my point of view as the manufacturer I think it was the right decision. On the other hand I understand disappointment of consumers but well it's better to be disappointed then really angry with the product.

We already have stocks of OXYDrive in the UK but still not marketing as we still have some work to do i.e manuals, marketing material etc etc. I think we were more lucky with getting OXYDrive made as we did not suffer such a delay but even though I can say how difficult it is to design the kit. Despite our kit is made of few already existing components it was enormous amount of work involved to match all of them starting from controller algorithm with motor and the display. At last once you have everything matched you still have to pass the EN15194 which we were lucky with as we didn't have to re-do any tests this time.

all the best

Andrew
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,763
30,349
Hi.

I thought my user name was "vectra". "Vectrix"? Not sure I know where you are going with that!
David wasn't sure where that came from, but it was in fact an e-vehicle faux-pas!

The Vectrix is an e-moped, not a Vauxhall car model of course.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
hi.
I cast no doubt against your integrity. I do cast doubt about the concept that any company be it Wisper or Cytronex ( as examples) can prelaunch kits which prove, as time scales will verify, that the kits were little more than vapourware when originally publicised.

I read that New Zealand Post has taken up these kits. Unless they are using a completely different set up then I have difficulty in understanding how a kit which is not yet ready for market can be sold into the NZ Post.

By the way, I would issue the same verdict against any company which acts this way. Be it Wisper or anyone else.

You state that it seems that it is a sign of the times that people will try and find fault when a company is working hard to be decent? Why not wait until the kit was actually built, tested and proven before you marketed it?

Would you have done the same with a complete bike such as the 905 and if so imagine the impact on your business should it have failed your customers?

So, please don't attempt to take the moral high ground just in order to detract from your own failings.
Regards
Vectra
What an arrogant and pig ignorant post...FYI I did not receive a post production kit? It was one from the first small full production batch, or what they thought was the first release...... They had previously tested and approved various set ups, and thought this was it.......

Norman and David and others were knocking there head together when mine and presumably others started playing up, Have you ever meet these guys? I am guessing not from your comments, as Norman their engineer is a very genuine guy and was very concerned and troubled with the situation. I was not, as having the kit allowed me to enjoy our summer tour of Slovenia/Croatia and Italy with just the minor annoyance of occasional cut out and automatic reset. I was a bit surprised on our return to see that they had delayed release.

Perhaps you might like to produce and market something useful of your own.....I for one would be delighted to watch your progress, and be ready to add encouragement instead of throwing stones and negative drivel at your progress
 
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vectra

Pedelecer
Feb 5, 2011
213
5
What an arrogant and pig ignorant post...FYI I did not receive a post production kit? It was one from the first small full production batch, or what they thought was the first release...... They had previously tested and approved various set ups, and thought this was it.......

Norman and David and others were knocking there head together when mine and presumably others started playing up, Have you ever meet these guys? I am guessing not from your comments, as Norman their engineer is a very genuine guy and was very concerned and troubled with the situation. I was not, as having the kit allowed me to enjoy our summer tour of Slovenia/Croatia and Italy with just the minor annoyance of occasional cut out and automatic reset. I was a bit surprised on our return to see that they had delayed release.

Perhaps you might like to produce and market something useful of your own.....I for one would be delighted to watch your progress, and be ready to add encouragement instead of throwing stones and negative drivel at your progress
Hi.
So now it becomes a personal attack from someone who can hardly be said to be objective. You clearly, from your past posts, have a far closer relationship with Wisper than the rest of us mortals.

My posts were not about the challenges involved in producing a kit. If you had taken time to objectively read it then you would have appreciated that it related to the manner in which this kit was brought to market and the associated failures and disappointments. Not every potential customer reads these forums. We exist in our own bubble.

Is it difficult to design, produce and market a piece of technology and successfully manage the customer experience? Yes, it is for I have long experience of designing and introducing telecomms kit mainly for SMEs.

I can also add that I never, at any time, promised or indicated to my customers that I could deliver anything other than kit that actually existed.

So, "pig ignorant" . The evidence doesn't support this however I suggest that before you leap into the defence of your chums you take a more objective view rather than the subjective one that you so obviously have done.

Hey, how dare I challenge Wisper and its 1 or 2 disciples on this site!

i had intended to end this discussion in an earlier post however your personal and unobjective post demands a challenge.

Can I suggest that, in future, you ensure your battery is fully charged before you you leap onto your bike to post a reply or at least try to be objective.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
I was intending to adhere to Andrews post and halt this, but your preposterous and uninformed speculation prevents this, as you continue ad naseum to post uninformed speculation...... You have a flawed and paranoid imagination and seeing as you are neither interested in the oxygen or DaaHub kits I find your continued interest astonishing.
 

vectra

Pedelecer
Feb 5, 2011
213
5
Can I suggest that you chill out as I cannot understand what drove you to make a personal attack on me, other than out of some sense of loyalty. Hardly objective was it. Why do you continue to ignore the actual issues raised?

However, you are correct as usual. We should really end what is a completely pointless and boring narrative.

End of.