Which Kit?

Olly

Finding my (electric) wheels
Aug 8, 2017
7
0
64
Europe
Hi all,
I like to modify my rim-braked CroMo Rohloff belt drive 26" touring bike (100 mm front forks). I'm looking for a reliable front hub. Long distance trips are planned in remote mountainous areas. Weight without motor and battery but including luggage: 130 kgs. Max daily approx. 1200 height-meters (with an average of 7%). Max. gradient approx. 12%. Mostly asphalt and gravel. Distance 40-150 km. Getting aged, I have to count for a diminishing condition.

Spending one month on reading, I think the 36V Q128 with 48V battery pack and the Double Speed Xiongda both could be fine. I wonder if the Q128 would be okay (without overheating problems) or that I better should go for the Xiongda (with a slightly higher risk for engine wear?)
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
The 48v 201 rpm Q128H might be OK as it's a lot slower than the 36v one at 48v (19 mph max). Generally, steep hills, gravel and front motors don't like to play together. All the advantages of your Rohloff go out the window when you get a decent hub-motor, so I'd keep that bike as it is and get a conventional one with disc brakes, diamond frame and derailleur gears for electrification.

You need to show us a detailed picture of your forks if you want comments on whether they're suitable for a high-torque motor.
 

Olly

Finding my (electric) wheels
Aug 8, 2017
7
0
64
Europe
Thanks for your reaction.

Please find enclosed some pictures (of the fork) clarifying my request.
Here you will find some more details of that bike too.

Traveling with front luggage too and my battery pack in the center, I hoped my bicycle would be fine for that modification but possibly I have to reconsider my plans.




 
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D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
I hope you don't feel offended by this, but if it were my bike and I liked the way it rode and fitted me, I'd remove the Rohloff and cranks, sell them on Ebay and use the money to buy a nice rear motor kit, then fit derailleur gears. That's assuming that the drop-outs are standard, though it wouldn't take much to make some out of 6mm steel if they're not.

If you fit a front motor, you'll lose the dynamo. If the forks are aluminium, you'd need to replace them. I don't know if your brakes fit standard forks. Even if they're steel, they look a bit weak for a high power motor. They'd be alright with something like a Q100 or any 36v motor run at 15 amps.

It's surprising how many people come on here with these difficult to convert bikes.

When you have a nice Q128C motor running at 48v with a nice KT sine wave controller, any bike becomes a Rolls Royce of an electric bike. You can change your seat, add your Thudbuster, put nice hydraulic disc brakes on and change your bars to get a comfortable riding position. The type of wheels and gears pale into insignificance. Trust me, you'd be happy with those Revoshift gears that you get on the £80 catalogue bikes. You don't need anything more. The electric kit would cost about £700. If you're going to spend that much, it makes more sense to get a bike that suits it to give you the best ebike in the world rather than taking an unsuitable bike and end up with a compromised one. The best non-ebikes, often can't be converted into the best ebikes.
 

Olly

Finding my (electric) wheels
Aug 8, 2017
7
0
64
Europe
I hope you don't feel offended by this
Definitely not, I came here to learn something

...but if it were my bike and I liked the way it rode and fitted me, I'd remove the Rohloff and cranks, sell them on Ebay and use the money to buy a nice rear motor kit, then fit derailleur gears
That's a huge step as I really love my belt drive Rohloff..

... Even if they're steel, they look a bit weak for a high power motor.....
The forks are steel and they are a heavy duty version, nevertheless they are not designed for a front hub motor .. I’m worried about that part too.

.They'd be alright with something like a Q100 or any 36v motor run at 15 amps.....
That might be welcome too, but I’m a afraid for overheating.

.It's surprising how many people come on here with these difficult to convert bikes. ....
I think it’s not surprising they come here ;)

The best non-ebikes, often can't be converted into the best ebikes..
To think about…thanks for your support!
 

anotherkiwi

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Jan 26, 2015
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Olly

Finding my (electric) wheels
Aug 8, 2017
7
0
64
Europe
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topographer

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 13, 2017
559
216
Mid Yorkshire
I hope you don't feel offended by this, but if it were my bike and I liked the way it rode and fitted me, I'd remove the Rohloff and cranks, sell them on Ebay and use the money to buy a nice rear motor kit, then fit derailleur gears. That's assuming that the drop-outs are standard, though it wouldn't take much to make some out of 6mm steel if they're not.

If you fit a front motor, you'll lose the dynamo. If the forks are aluminium, you'd need to replace them. I don't know if your brakes fit standard forks. Even if they're steel, they look a bit weak for a high power motor. They'd be alright with something like a Q100 or any 36v motor run at 15 amps.

It's surprising how many people come on here with these difficult to convert bikes.

When you have a nice Q128C motor running at 48v with a nice KT sine wave controller, any bike becomes a Rolls Royce of an electric bike. You can change your seat, add your Thudbuster, put nice hydraulic disc brakes on and change your bars to get a comfortable riding position. The type of wheels and gears pale into insignificance. Trust me, you'd be happy with those Revoshift gears that you get on the £80 catalogue bikes. You don't need anything more. The electric kit would cost about £700. If you're going to spend that much, it makes more sense to get a bike that suits it to give you the best ebike in the world rather than taking an unsuitable bike and end up with a compromised one. The best non-ebikes, often can't be converted into the best ebikes.
Couldn't he just add strong forks, front panniers (with lots of weight), knobblier front tyre, a Q128 and try to find the right amps to feed it?
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
He could do anything. My point is, why would you want take a very nice touring bike and convert it into an average electric bike, when there's easier ways to get an average electric bike?
 

anotherkiwi

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I think it could become a very nice electric touring bike with a BBS02 if he can get the belt line correctly set up. Looking at the large size of his front 'chainring', 55T, there may be a way of moving that inboard with the correct spider.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
I think it could become a very nice electric touring bike with a BBS02 if he can get the belt line correctly set up. Looking at the large size of his front 'chainring', 55T, there may be a way of moving that inboard with the correct spider.
I'm sure it can be done. some info here:
https://california-ebike.com/thinking-adding-bafang-mid-drive-belt-drive-bike/

I still have to ask the question why you'd want a Rohloff on an electric bike? When you don't have a motor, you need lots of gears, including a very low ratio for steep hills and a nice high ratio for relaxed pedalling at speed, but when you have a motor, all those ratios become a nuisance rather than an advantage. You don't need to go nearly so low on the bottom gear. With a BBS01, I doubt that you'd ever use the bottom 2. I would have thought that 7 ratios would be more than enough. I can imagine having to change two gears at a time every time you need to shift the Rohloff. What fun that would be. Sure, you could put a smaller pulley on the back (if they make one) to raise the gearing, but then you'd have superfluous ones at the top, especially if you limit to 15 mph. I'm sure that you know that an electric bike spends nearly all it's time between 8 mph and 15 mph. how many gears do you need for that?

On my road bike, I have 20 gears, and I use all of them, though there's some overlap, so 20 is actually about 14. On my electric bike, I only use the big chain-ring, so that's only 9 gears, but most of the time I'm on the top two. i would only go down to the bottom gear (still on big chain-ring) on the steepest hills. I occasionally use the second from bottom. that leaves 5 middle gears that are just a nuisance because I have to go through them to get to the gears I want
 

anotherkiwi

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Jan 26, 2015
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I have been talking to DNP about making 7-8 speed 11-48 tooth wide range cassettes and freewheels for e-bikes to have a cheaper equivalent of the SRAM cassette but they don't get it, Taiwan must be flat where they live. That is a 6 tooth jump between cogs with a 7 speed, 5 teeth with an 8 speed. With a 44 or a 42 tooth chainwheel those seven/eight gears are about all you will ever need. Live in a very hilly place? Mount a 46-32 on the front. Live in the city and don't need to go much over 25 km/h, put on a 38 tooth chainwheel... Those numbers are for 700C wheels.
 

Olly

Finding my (electric) wheels
Aug 8, 2017
7
0
64
Europe
Couldn't he just add strong forks, front panniers (with lots of weight), knobblier front tyre, a Q128 and try to find the right amps to feed it?
Thanks for that suggestion..certainly I'll keep this in mind.

He could do anything. My point is, why would you want take a very nice touring bike and convert it into an average electric bike, when there's easier ways to get an average electric bike?
I like to make the long distance mountainous trips in remote zones I made in my early days. However, getting older I’m confronted with limitations…despite a relatively new bike. It would be great to have/keep the classic bike, with all his gears, for “wherever possible” and a motor for ”wherever not possible”. But I understand, once added electric power to the bicycle, the need to frequently be shifting can become tedious:
http://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kit-igh/

For me it will be important to learn: -if the addition of motor can be done in a good way; -if biking without the help of motor will be not become too hard because of increased resistance; -if a motor added to my bicycle will be reliable.

It looks like your bike would accept a mid-motor (standard 68 mm BB?) have you thought about that option? You will need one that offers a correct chainline (beltline)
https://california-ebike.com/thinking-adding-bafang-mid-drive-belt-drive-bike/

I think it could become a very nice electric touring bike with a BBS02 if he can get the belt line correctly set up. Looking at the large size of his front 'chainring', 55T, there may be a way of moving that inboard with the correct spider.
Indeed I have a standard 68 mm BB and this 55T ‘chainring’. First I'll check if “the final gear housing (113mm diameter) will stay clear of the chainstay when mounted up against the 68mm bottom bracket”. If so, if have to find out if I can move the chainring inboard with the correct spider.






 
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John L

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 23, 2007
287
6
I only got out on it properly today:)

I did about 18 miles averaging about 17.5mph (my gps speedo gave an average of 18.5 - I guess it stopped when I stopped). I mainly stuck to PAS setting 2 or 3. On a particularly steep hill I went to level 4. No bother on the hill:)

The motor is very quiet. I couldn't hear it above the noise of the air whistling past my head! The throttle gives a real shove and I only pushed it to 23mph. (I did this the other day on a short test run without a helmet - I felt exposed so 23mph was enough).

Overall I was very impressed with the setup. Unfortunately my own fitness is pretty poor and I felt tired after the spin - health issues. But it was great to get out again on a bike without worrying about wind direction:).

One issue arose. When I started the ride the PAS would kick in pretty quick but half way out I noticed it took a bit longer. When it got going it flew but getting it going took 5 or 6 revolutions of the crank.

I also had clicking sound which I couldn't identify. I didn't have it on the stand but on the road it was noticeable. I'll have to investigate more.

While I got out on the bike today I didn't really test it. I didn't push it hard under throttle or at level 5 on the PAS. Hopefully as my fitness improves I'll get to see its true capabilities.





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Forge Custom

Pedelecer
May 14, 2016
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I only got out on it properly today:)

I did about 18 miles averaging about 17.5mph (my gps speedo gave an average of 18.5 - I guess it stopped when I stopped). I mainly stuck to PAS setting 2 or 3. On a particularly steep hill I went to level 4. No bother on the hill:)

The motor is very quiet. I couldn't hear it above the noise of the air whistling past my head! The throttle gives a real shove and I only pushed it to 23mph. (I did this the other day on a short test run without a helmet - I felt exposed so 23mph was enough).

Overall I was very impressed with the setup. Unfortunately my own fitness is pretty poor and I felt tired after the spin - health issues. But it was great to get out again on a bike without worrying about wind direction:).

One issue arose. When I started the ride the PAS would kick in pretty quick but half way out I noticed it took a bit longer. When it got going it flew but getting it going took 5 or 6 revolutions of the crank.

I also had clicking sound which I couldn't identify. I didn't have it on the stand but on the road it was noticeable. I'll have to investigate more.

While I got out on the bike today I didn't really test it. I didn't push it hard under throttle or at level 5 on the PAS. Hopefully as my fitness improves I'll get to see its true capabilities.





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Well done for getting out - sounds like a promising start. Slowly does it on the health front. No point in busting a gut too soon!

How do you think it would've been if you'd just pedalled as normal and then just feathered in a bit of throttle when needed? Basically what I do on my beach cruiser conversion. It does encourage laziness mind!
 

John L

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 23, 2007
287
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Which PAS did you use, John?
I used the 12 magnet dual hall sensor (C1=3 setting).I stopped a couple of times to see if I could identify the clicking sound. Starting up again I had to go into a lower gear. When it first happened I thought I had no power at all! But as I say it picked up after 5 or 6 rotations.

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John L

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 23, 2007
287
6
Well done for getting out - sounds like a promising start. Slowly does it on the health front. No point in busting a gut too soon!

How do you think it would've been if you'd just pedalled as normal and then just feathered in a bit of throttle when needed? Basically what I do on my beach cruiser conversion. It does encourage laziness mind!
Pedalling without power was definitely a little tougher than with an unpowered wheel. Freewheeling down hill was also a little slower. Feathering the throttle I guess would give you a bit of momentum but it wasn't something I tried.

Nice easy pedalling (though high enough cadence) at level 2 comfortably made 16/17mph on the flat. Its surprising how much energy even that takes when you're not used to it!

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anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
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I used the 12 magnet dual hall sensor (C1=3 setting).I stopped a couple of times to see if I could identify the clicking sound. Starting up again I had to go into a lower gear. When it first happened I thought I had no power at all! But as I say it picked up after 5 or 6 rotations.

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That isn't normal. My 12 magnet single hall PAS kicks in as soon as the 2nd or 3rd magnet goes past the sensor so maximum 1/4 revolution.