Paultr

Birkenhead Cycles are dealers of Wisper Bikes covering Liverpool & the Wirral. We recently purchased two 806 step through folding bikes from them and after a day or so we noticed a small problem with one of them. This turned out not to be their fault but nevertheless the way they resolved the situation was excellent and highlights the advantages of buying more expensive items through specialist retailers rather than the box shifters we all use so much these days for everyday stuff. I have since discovered that Birkenhead Cycles have a really good reputation and I can only say that our experience seems to bear this out. I suppose I should point out that I was not asked to give feedback anywhere and was prompted to write this post entirely out of a desire to help other potential bike buyers/owners locally. Cheers Paul FWIW, Although it is very early days I am very impressed with the little 806 folding bike. Having spent many years riding road bikes and more latterly an electric hybrid urban type thing I was a bit nervous I wouldn't feel right on 20" wheels but that has not been the case. The bike is very well engineered (imo) and every aspect seems well thought out. It is a relaxed laid back style of getting around and in a way analogous to the feeling I got a couple of years ago when we moved from a 2 litre petrol Audi Quattro A3 to a fully electric Hyundai Ioniq

I went to see a 806 bike at a Wisper dealer yesterday and it had mechanical disk brakes yet when I checked the online manual the specs said they were hydraulic - anyone understand the reason for this anomaly ? I also wonder which would be better for us. I have hydraulic brakes on my full size Cannondale conversion and understand the increased responsiveness but I'm thinking a mechanical cable system might be a sensible bomb proof option given we will be basing our bikes on a boat quite a lot where I only have rudimentary workshop type facilities. Anyone got any thoughts on which system might be more suitable ?

That just confirms all my prejudice against the H company. Before deciding to do my own conversion and discovering Woosh I booked a test ride at my local store on that bike. I thought it quite a professional service and when I went to get it i asked what I thought was the honest bike dept manager if the problems I had heard about were still an issue. He said they were something to do with a sensor (torque?) and this had been changed and everything sorted out. He even went on to say they had sold a lot without a single problem. It was obviously complete bull$hit and just so short sighted as chances are he would have been caught out when mine went wrong if I had bought it. I was very suspicious when I brought it back an hour or two later and he was not there and another junior guy booked it back in. A couple of weeks earlier I had given quite a generous tip to this guy when he kindly allowed us to jump the queue of people getting small jobs done on their cars after our brake light failed just as we were setting off on holiday with a car full of stuff. As he took the Crossfire off me he said hello and then looked me in the eye and said "I would save up for a Crossfuse if I were you mate". When I asked him why he just winked ! Edit: Oh yes, I have just remembered. I bought a crank extractor I needed to fit the Woosh kit from that store and the same manager served me. I had never used an extractor with a built in handle before and this one looked a bit feeble even though it was called 'Professional'. I asked the manager if it would stand up to me putting my weight behind it if my crank was stiff and he said "You will never bend that" A couple of hours later I was back in the store with a completely deformed extractor ! I am not a strong guy but it was just not fit for purpose. It is still on their website now - heaven knows how many get returned

Thanks Robert. I have since looked at the site again and I was being over cautious and I am sure the chargers would be suitable if I specify the lead acid option. It was all the references to the lithium ion chemistry that put me off. They make the chargers sold by that well known multiple car accessory retailer seem woefully under powered and over priced !

Off topic and possibly stupid post but just want to be certain. The prices on the above site look very reasonable. Many of the chargers say they are suitable for lead acid batteries so would this one for example be suitable for charging a 12v conventional lead acid leisure battery (these are not true deep discharge batteries but can be partially discharged and are used in caravans and boats) ? The label on the one in this link shows that they do a 12v 20A version. https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-charger-ev-charger/795-s600-300watts-lifepo4li-ionlead-acid-battery-charger.html?search_query=Charger&results=149

As soon as I decided to get an e-bike my instinct was to go for as much power as possible and stuff the law. For one reason and another I have ended up legal but have to admit am well satisfied with it. Am sure it depends largely where you live but if there are any more fatalities and particularly if there were to be a flukey occurrence of a couple close together then I would not be surprised at some token prosecutions.

I am not qualified to reply really as I have only done one conversion but I thought exactly the same as you initially. I ended up buying a similar specced bike to the Subway 2 but was convinced to go for rear wheel drive. My view now is that it is only 250w but can go up hills easily (but I am not that heavy) but the main reason for my post is that the thing I learned most is to keep the overall weight of the converted bike down as low as possible. Second thing but of equal importance is to make sure you get a thumb throttle. You will prefer the pedal sensor (in the right gear) in normal use but the throttle is great to use from a standstill

Apologies to the o/p for jumping in on his thread but when you say you are 'spinning out' does that mean you are going too fast for your legs to contribute any power as the pedals are going round so fast ? This occurred to me a couple of weeks ago as even with my 250W motor at times it nearly does the same even when in the highest gear. In this situation is there any alternative to having to use the throttle continuously ?

I have sealed all my cable joints with self amalgamating tape. This is great stuff and if you put it on with just the right amount of pressure it sort of 'melts' and will make a completely waterproof seal. You can get it off but you are best using a Stanley knife and a lot of care . It is better than any kind of goop imo as it comes off so cleanly. I was surprised to read your comment about the throttle as I use mine all the time. Only when setting off from a standstill but it makes it so much easier and I would guess that is even more relevant on a tandem but I might be wrong. However once going along I much prefer (as I was advised I would) the pedal assist. If you get the right cadence (new word to me !) then you can put in as much effort from zero to as much as you want. Anyway, I feel like I am teaching my grandmother how to such eggs as I know a fraction compared to most on here

This depends on your personality - for me (a bit of an anorak) it is the exact opposite. I really enjoy and get a kick out of knowing what is going on with any tech product I use in my day to day life. I almost get as much pleasure in discovering how new things work as I do from using them. Edited to remove irrelevant waffle

Thanks Tony I was guilty when I started this thread of not googling for the answer first ! Now I have done I realise just how much info there is on this subject (including the amazing revelation that Tesla uses the same battery format that I have - if it is good enough for Elon it is good enough for me!). When you say the BMW draws it's energy from one cell do I infer from that that it needs to be wired into the structure of the battery or is it just plug and play ?

Thanks Neal The battery I have is "17AH HL downtube battery with Panasonic 18650-B cells". I have a multimeter so can determine overall voltage but how would I find out how many cells I have ? I assume there must be banks of cells in series to make up the 36V and these banks wired in parallel to make up the desired capacity. You mention a programmable bms. Is there one model that stands out as the one to get and is it likely to save money or is it just a question of being able to charge efficiently to extend range/life of battery ?

Thanks for the replies I presume that balancing must occur if you charge fully as you say as all the individual cells must become full. I am not sure though that by trying to keep the cells in the optimum window is overthinking it as the battery/s are the single biggest cost of my system. I do realise that I need to research more and find out whether some kind of smart charger would be cost effective for my kind of occasional use.

How many here always charge their batteries fully every time they need a charge? As I understand it, batteries like to be kept in the 40-70% range of their capacity. I can understand that if you are a daily commuter user you have no choice other than recharge to full but for someone like me who uses their bike maybe 2 or 3 times a week with a typical journey of <10 miles there appears to be logic in only charging up to 80% or so when the battery gets down to 30%. This would result in charging the battery once a fortnight rather than once a month as I do now. What do the folks who understand our battery chemistry think ? EDIT: I suppose if you extend this logic further you could 'top up' the battery with a small charge after every journey and try to keep it at 70% ....

Going to put it on the rear disk lever then. Not only is my motor there but I always apply the rear brake instinctively just before the front having learnt the hard way what happens if you slam the front brake on when riding a racing bike when I was probably 14 or so. You only do it once

Glad I have read this thread as much against the advice from Woosh I have not got around to fitting my hydraulic sensors. This is using a hub drive and throttle. In general use I have never felt the need for them but I definitely don't want to lose my throttle as I find it frequently invaluable when starting off but haven't considered it misbehaving. Going to fit them now.

You do not say how much experience you have but when I installed my rear hub kit I found the Park Tools blue maintenance book a useful if not strictly necessary aid. I also bought a good quality 1/4" drive torque wrench and a really nice little 1/4" drive socket set by Bahco with additional hex bit sockets.

I am not qualified to advise as much as others but if you buy from Woosh they do kits that include batteries. http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?cdkit You will also need the brake sensors as discussed above if you have hydraulic disk brakes. Also you will need tools. I do not like knocking products but I made the mistake of buying an own brand crank extractor tool from a well known chain store that sells car parts as well as bike stuff. It was horrific and not fit for purpose as it just bent as soon as I applied even modest pressure. As with all tools it rarely pays to get the cheapest. EDIT: oops, beaten to it by Woosh as I was typing my reply. You have to be fast to beat them

Yes of course, if using connectors you have no choice. My advice was only relevant if dealing with loose wires. The op might have had a trial run before fitting the XT 60 connectors for a permanent solution. It is not a set in stone thing anyway, just good practice to get into.

Sorry, missed your reply but yes it was the tubes I meant. I see there are replies below but thanks anyway

That bike is the exact opposite of mine (Saying that, I would love one)

Thanks for that info - explains my mystery too

Just a small point but get into the habit of always connecting - ve to - ve first. EDIT: and take the - ve off last when disconnecting.

Do you mean your post when you asked about what was offensive ? I removed my mistaken report and it accepted that. If you want me to I may be able to delete the whole thread as I was the op. Not sure how this software works. I could then repost the original post. I will have a check through to see if we will lose any useful replies.

Mal69, which site did you get them from ?