I've tried high-end bikes by Wisper, Kalkhoff, AVE, Sparta, Koga, Haibike and Storck Raddar. I feel most comfortable on crank drives and the Impulse / Bosch drives seem to suit me well. I also liked the high-speed roll-off of the Agattu particularly.

 

Tough choice there Maloflora!

 

Most of those manufacturers provide at least one model I could live with quite happily, the exception for me being the grossly overpriced Storck bikes. For some considerable time, Eddie has trumpeted the merits of the Bosch-powered bikes. In my view, he's right to do so as they have elevated the electric bike to an unprecedented level of power, economy, light weight and reliability. With competition everywhere, the prices are now very affordable, (hardly budget bikes, I know!) and the German dealers are more than happy to provide quick, efficient supply to the UK in such cut-throat times.

 

The sheer range of manufacturers who have adopted the Bosch system and placed it in almost every style of bike imaginable speaks volumes about the confidence people in the industry have in the Bosch product. As I have previously intimated in these pages, I'm a big fan of traditionally-styled Dutch bikes. Equally, I like the Kalkhoff range from Germany but if there is one bike which really showcases the abilities of the Bosch-power system in a superb frame, lighter than most, it's the Haibike top-of-the-range, full-sus MTB. It's a better machine than the AVE attempt at a competitor and is way ahead of the Storck, no matter what the people in the north-east might want you to believe.

 

The Haibike really is "fit for purpose" but could be used for commuting quite comfortably. Your choice in the end will be determined by budget and style with value for money the constant consideration as always in major purchases. The bikes you have already tested are not exactly bargain-basement or budget-range machines so you should get a really nice, competent ebike whchever you choose at that end of the price spectrum.

 

Which one to choose at that end of the market is one of life's nicer problems, I'd say. Enjoy the difficulty!

 

Indalo

The Kalkhoff the OP is considering has a 15ah battery which must be a major selling point.

 

With the OP's 23mile commutes, a 10ah would need to be charged every day and it wouldn't be long in terms of months before degradation set in.

 

The 15ah wouldn't need charging so often and has a longer range anyway, so some degradation wouldn't matter.

 

We are talking central London, so lots of stops and starts.

 

What is the Kalkhoff like for pulling away?

 

Some people say crank drives have a delay or can be snatchy which is irritating when you are stopping and starting a lot.

 

A simple throttle control stands the bike up a treat and off you go.

Bosch power there immediately as soon as you press the pedal."others" are not like this, needing one revolution of crank..it makes a hell of a difference

 

Plus now the option if you really think you need it of 11Ah battery.

 

I prefer XT gearing, you just need to change down quickly when stoping, no great shakes, and just like normal cycling

 

But if I was facing a long commute I would probably select a powerful hub motor bike with large battery. This one. http://www.wisperbikes.com/905sel-2011.php

 

It has a powerful dapush 350 watt motor and 16 ah battery to back it up, XT gearing, air shocks etc..etc.. Problem being finding one!

Edited November 17, 201213 yr by eddieo

Every bike has advantages and disadvantages. The Neo's main advantage is it's hill-climbing ability. Naturally, if you use a lot of power to go up hills, the battery won't last as long. It's the same if you go faster: You need more energy for the same distance. If a bike uses up its battery quicker than another one, the main reason is that it's giving you more help. One exception is when you have an under-powered motor struggling up hills, which forces it into an inefficient zone. Bikes with a good range normally achieve it by giving you less help - even by giving you the impression that they're giving you more help than they are by clever algorithms in their power systems.

 

The gear-changing when stationary is more a problem on normal bikes and low-powered ebikes. The Neo has enough torque to pull away from a standstill in top gear, so it's not really a point of argument on this bike.

Every bike has advantages and disadvantages. The Neo's main advantage is it's hill-climbing ability. Naturally, if you use a lot of power to go up hills, the battery won't last as long. It's the same if you go faster: You need more energy for the same distance. If a bike uses up its battery quicker than another one, the main reason is that it's giving you more help. One exception is when you have an under-powered motor struggling up hills, which forces it into an inefficient zone. Bikes with a good range normally achieve it by giving you less help - even by giving you the impression that they're giving you more help than they are by clever algorithms in their power systems.

 

The gear-changing when stationary is more a problem on normal bikes and low-powered ebikes. The Neo has enough torque to pull away from a standstill in top gear, so it's not really a point of argument on this bike.

 

Dave,why do members think the BH Neo range climbs hills so well-it is after all limited down to 250 watts?

Dave

Kudoscycles

It's not that I think it climbs well. I know it climbs well. I rode one up Park Street in Bristol. You used to stock these bikes. Didn't you ever have a go on one?

 

No ebikes that I know are limited to 250w - and that includes your entire range. The motor has to be rated at 250w, but that has no direct relationship to how much power it consumes/produces. As long as the manufacturer puts a 250w label on the motor, it's legal.

A bike I would consider were I spending a nice few quid on a commuter is a Moustache:

 

Moustache Bikes | Lundi 26 NUVINCI

 

Should do the job, a bit quirky and at least there won't be load of others at every traffic lights.

Maloflora, also consider whether bike weight is an issue for you. I've mentioned on another thread recently that I often have to pick up the bike to carry it up/down stairs at train stations - this is where excess weight can be a pain.

 

My old Juicy came in, with a D-lock attached, at 23.5kg - pretty much the top end of what I can carry, and I'm pretty fit and able (though not a gym bunny). My current Ave is 22kg with locks carried separately, and this can be lifted pretty much with one arm. However the Wisper 905SEL recommended earlier in this thread is 25-26kg, and their top-of-the-range Alpino is 26-27kg (depending on battery pack options).

Yes the SEL heavy but a wonderful commuter cruiser and spec very high compared to other hub bikes being discussed here, and certainly not sporty. I would not have one as I don't commute, and prefer lighter more agile bikes (as also have to get them on camper rack)

 

The whole wisper range is being changed and reduced for 2013 (all bike to be built in Germany) So dont even know if any around....

Edited November 17, 201213 yr by eddieo

It's not that I think it climbs well. I know it climbs well. I rode one up Park Street in Bristol. You used to stock these bikes. Didn't you ever have a go on one?

 

No ebikes that I know are limited to 250w - and that includes your entire range. The motor has to be rated at 250w, but that has no direct relationship to how much power it consumes/produces. As long as the manufacturer puts a 250w label on the motor, it's legal.

 

Dave,so many Daves on this forum-is it a criteria of riding an ebike you are named Dave?

Yeh I had lots of gos on the Neo range,it climbed hills better than any other hub drive bike I have ridden-I have my own opinions as to why this is so,but on this one would prefer to keep to myself.

My posting was very carefully worded to consider others opinions,quote'why do members think the BH Neo range climbs hills so well-it is after all limited down to 250 watts?

You,of course,explained your view in a succinct manner.

We stopped selling the BH range because it just did not sell at the rrp price,they were clearly fine bikes but most of our customers seemed not to want to pay the average £2k price,at average £1.5k they sold relatively well and good value. We also knew that on the horizon are some very fine bikes in development that have a considerably lower costing.

Dave

Kudoscycles

OK, I get it. You want to say that your new range coming in January has the same motor as the Neo (only better as it's the CST version) and will have the same climbing power, but you don't want to be accused of spamming. You're too subtle for me. I look forward to trying your new bikes. I just got one of the CST motors with a 350w label on it, and it's very nice - smooth quiet and strong. I can build a really nice bike with this one and my new 20aH battery.

I’m a bit confused here - perhaps someone can enlighten me. Does the BH Neo range use the BPM motor? I haven’t owned a BPM but understand it is a geared motor with a clutch. If this is true how does the regenerative braking, claimed for the Neo in some places, work? Do some models have direct drive motors, if so which ones?

Gosh lots of useful advice - thanks all!

 

Anyway I tested the BH Neo Cross and I loved it. First electric bike that really made me smile as it pulled away. I know eddie won't be happy with me, and I agree the components are a bit sub-par (or non-existent), but I know what Garry means about the different between the Kalkhoff and the BH - one's safe but steady, but the other felt like fun.

 

Nice and light, too, halfer. Comparatively at least!

 

Two concerns I still have about the Neo:

• Battery life: is 25 miles going to be ok on a charge?
  
• Noise: I heard a small whine at times - is this normal?
  

M

Dave,so many Daves on this forum-is it a criteria of riding an ebike you are named Dave?

 

Dave

Kudoscycles

 

No, it's just the age of the Dave, even the Prime Minister is a Dave. Recently I actually had someone who knows me absent mindedly say "Hello Dave" when I picked up the phone to answer his call. That's how bad it's got!

 

If Prince Charles wants to increase his popularity before coming to the throne, he knows what to do.

Two concerns I still have about the Neo:

• Battery life: is 25 miles going to be ok on a charge?
  
• Noise: I heard a small whine at times - is this normal?
  

M

 

On the 9Ah battery, yes, especially if you're mainly on the flat. I'm guessing I'd get 20 miles out of my 8Ah Bosch system on high power settings, with a couple of hills. Although you've said you'd like to use full power, I do recommend using a mid-range setting if you can - it'll be a good mix of exercise and assistance, and you'll easily get the range you want.

 

I noticed a substantial purr when testing the Neo Cross - I think this is normal, and wouldn't in itself put me off buying one. You're right it does have a bit more zip than comparable bikes!

Edited November 17, 201213 yr by halfer

Why would I not approve!lol I'm sure its exciting, I fully expected it to be..But for a long tedious daily commute?

 

You can easily get a decent range from the Bosch, did you read that review I posted, full power mode unnecessary most of the time. I'm getting on, 17 stone and far from fit, and can get 25 miles on full power, but I like to feel like I'm riding not being pulled/pushed along.

 

anyway comparisons with a centre drive not really fair, they are a very different form of E cycling. both have strengths and weaknesses, some more glaring and self evident then others if you choose to recognise them....

 

So what's it to be?lol

Gosh lots of useful advice - thanks all!

 

Anyway I tested the BH Neo Cross and I loved it. First electric bike that really made me smile as it pulled away. I know eddie won't be happy with me, and I agree the components are a bit sub-par (or non-existent), but I know what Garry means about the different between the Kalkhoff and the BH - one's safe but steady, but the other felt like fun.

 

Nice and light, too, halfer. Comparatively at least!

 

Two concerns I still have about the Neo:

• Battery life: is 25 miles going to be ok on a charge?
  
• Noise: I heard a small whine at times - is this normal?
  

M

 

As all ready said I have done 28 miles on a charge in peak district so fairly hilly .

This was mainly in eco mode but I very rarely feel the need to use anything else and I'm certainly no super fit cyclist

I am also 112 kilos which defiantly effects range.

Oh and this was the first conditioning charge of the battery on my xtrme.

So assuming you are a bit smaller than me I dont see it being a problem.

Also with 24 gears if you do run out of power riding it like a normal bike is pretty easy.

 

As for noise will have to admit its not the most quiet motor on a ebike but not any noisier than most others and only really noticeable when it is working hard.

Edited November 17, 201213 yr by GaRRy

Readers please note: Garrys other ride is a Ducati:eek:

Readers please note: Garrys other ride is a Ducati:eek:

 

And your point is ?

Easy tiger it was a joke? but kinda explains why you find Bosch system a bit dull..my hub bike far more exciting as well.

Easy tiger it was a joke? but kinda explains why you find Bosch system a bit dull..my hub bike far more exciting as well.

 

Just Checking

 

I have nothing against Bosch bikes just not yet ridden one that rocks my boat. There are some nice looking ones out there and I would never say never. I guess Im just as evangelical as you

Ah! but I can appreciate both systems as I have pretty good examples of both....Killing 3 on in an hour (love it!)

I’m a bit confused here - perhaps someone can enlighten me. Does the BH Neo range use the BPM motor? I haven’t owned a BPM but understand it is a geared motor with a clutch. If this is true how does the regenerative braking, claimed for the Neo in some places, work? Do some models have direct drive motors, if so which ones?

Yes it's the BPM2 motor. It doesn't have regen despite what the dealers tell you. I think it has a display panel from another bike, which shows regen, but, as you rightly point out, the motor has a free-wheeling clutch so regen is not possible.

Yes it's the BPM2 motor. It doesn't have regen despite what the dealers tell you. I think it has a display panel from another bike, which shows regen, but, as you rightly point out, the motor has a free-wheeling clutch so regen is not possible.

 

While I agree there does not appear to be much evidence of regen to the naked eye and doubt it make that much difference to range even if it is there. However BH claim specifically that the bike has it and to make a claim like that and then get caught out could result in serious financial penalties. I guess taking the motor apart or some form of testing will be the only way to prove this ( stick on a rolling road with brakes applied enough to trigger regen and see if battery charges ?)

 

Why are you convinced its the standard BPM2 motor ?

Edited November 18, 201213 yr by GaRRy

How much are these BPM 2 motors plse?