November 9, 201510 yr I agree the modded bike cannot be legally sold as a bicycle. But it can be sold as an item, there is nothing to prevent that. All the legalities of which you speak relate to the use of the item, not its sale. If the customer only uses the bike to prop open the kitchen door, then no offence is committed by anyone. You need to grasp the difference between sale and use - they are two entirely different things.
November 9, 201510 yr don't you over dramatize a bit? the bike is CE marked, the dongle is CE marked and made for the bike. Fitting the dongle to the bike does not automatically void both CE labels. It does... thats exactly the point. We've checked. I'm not over dramatising, I'm simply presenting facts.
November 9, 201510 yr I agree the modded bike cannot be legally sold as a bicycle. But it can be sold as an item, there is nothing to prevent that. All the legalities of which you speak relate to the use of the item, not its sale. If the customer only uses the bike to prop open the kitchen door, then no offence is committed by anyone. You need to grasp the difference between sale and use - they are two entirely different things. Yes, sale and use are different things... but selling an eBike with a dongle fitted, is like it or not, I'm afraid breaking trading standards laws.
November 9, 201510 yr Why don't you just buy one of these? http://www.ktmfreeride-e.com/en lol no thanks Serious question.... why not?
November 9, 201510 yr It does... thats exactly the point. We've checked. I'm not over dramatising, I'm simply presenting facts. This is from the badass dongle's website: Attention! The badass Chiptuning Box must not be used on public roads or in areas subject to the application of the Highway Code! Use is restricted to private land or for competition / testing purposes. Initial use of the badass Chip Tuning Box is not allowed in areas subject to the application of the Highway Code. The installation of the badass Chiptuning Box can lead to loss of warranty of the bicycle. The badass Chiptuning Box is used at your own risk. Warning, risk of injury. The manufacturer assumes no liability for any damage to property and / or injury to persons caused by improper it's clear enough for me, you can use your bike in your garden, on your farm etc - fitting a dongle does not affect the CE marking on the bike.
November 9, 201510 yr Let's say I wanted to open a fairground attraction using dongled ebikes on an enclosed track instead of go karts. As the operator of the attraction, I have a lot to think about in terms of safety, public liability and so on. But none of that is anything to do with the retailer from whom I buy my mini fleet of dongled ebikes. The retailer has broken no laws, trading standards or otherwise, by selling me the bikes.
November 9, 201510 yr Let's say I wanted to open a fairground attraction using dongled ebikes on an enclosed track instead of go karts. As the operator of the attraction, I have a lot to think about in terms of safety, public liability and so on. But none of that is anything to do with the retailer from whom I buy my mini fleet of dongled ebikes. The retailer has broken no laws, trading standards or otherwise, by selling me the bikes. I'm sorry, but by selling products that are not CE certified... they have broken the law. What you intend to use them for is irrelevant. You're now getting mixed up between sale and use, which is what you just told me off for
November 9, 201510 yr This is from the badass dongle's website: it's clear enough for me, you can use your bike in your garden, on your farm etc - fitting a dongle does not affect the CE marking on the bike. Thats you buying a dongle for your bike... THATS NOT THE SAME AS SELLING A DONGLED BIKE!!!!
November 9, 201510 yr I'm sorry, but by selling products that are not CE certified... they have broken the law. What you intend to use them for is irrelevant. You're now getting mixed up between sale and use, which is what you just told me off for Colin, How do your KTM dealers legally sell off-road or race prepped motorbikes?
November 9, 201510 yr Colin, How do your KTM dealers legally sell off-road or race prepped motorbikes? They are CE certified as motorbikes and meet the legal requirement as such. Again legal to sell, just not legal to use most places. Dongled ebikes are not legal to sell at all, and not legal to be used most places. SPedelecs are like motorbikes, they are legal to sell, but not legal to use in most places. A dongled Ebike is not an spedelec. Does that help explain things?
November 9, 201510 yr Col, There is no legal bar to selling a dongled ebike, only legal restrictions on its use. As I said, it could be bought to use as an exhibit in a museum of modern art. In that instance, the item is not being sold as 'an ebike to ride', but simply as an item to exhibit in a gallery. Such an exhibit does not need CE certificates or any other certificates, so all that is irrelevant to the sale transaction. There are some things which are illegal to possess, which will also almost always make their sale illegal as well. It is illegal to possess cocaine, and it is also an offence to supply it. It is not illegal to simply possess a dongled ebike, and it is not illegal to sell one. You can keep hammering on about dongled ebikes, but 'illegal sale' is not your best point.
November 9, 201510 yr Rob, If I get a statement from trading standards will you believe them? Because I'm afraid even if you buy the bike to use as a clothes horse to dry your clothes it's still being sold as a bicycle, and therefore the dealer has to meet the correct regulations for the bicycle. i don't want to be banging on about this point, but as Trex has just shown, we can all learn something though discussion. I was trying to explain to the op why a decent bike shop will not sell a modified bike, because removing the speed limit removes the CE certification no matter what or where it's used. Which is why it's worse for a shop to do this than sell an spedelec, which some people find it hard to get their head around. I'll get a statement from trading standards for you.
November 9, 201510 yr i could get a ktm as well as my m8s dad a million air property owner with own farm and 200 acres of private land with proof of ownership. will void the warranty tho
June 11, 20169 yr Just wondering if anyone has manager to sort this out? Would like to know how and if its possible.
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