Make sure if you use choose the loctite solution to use the right kind...

 

https://www.duncanracing.com/TechCenter/LocktiteThreadlocking_Guide.pdf

 

271, Red: High strength threadlocker for larger diameter hardware.

 

262, Red: High strength threadlocker for for hardware smaller than that which uses 271 (more like heli parts). Either does a good job for our stuff, however. I see 271 most commonly in auto parts stores.

 

609, Green: Retaining compound, high strength, for mounting slip fit bearings to shafts. An appropriate product for tail boxes.

 

603, Green: Retaining compound, high strength, similar to 609 but good where the parts may be a little oily. Good for mounting oilite bushings in housings, BTW.

 

640: Green: Retaining compound, high strength. Similar to 609 and 603. Lacks the oil tolerance of 603. I use it where I might have trouble with adjacent bearing contamination with the product, such as start shaft bearing blocks, since it has a little greater viscosity than 603.

 

638, Green, rather thick: Ultra strong retaining compound for assemblies with a marked amount of slop in the fit, min 0.004". Don't try to use this stuff for our normal bearings on healthy shafts. It sets almost immediately in the tight gap, and you'll never have the chance to get the bearing into place.

 

290, Green: Wicking product for thread locking AFTER assembly. Medium strength, much stronger than 242 blue in my experience. Not the correct choice per loctite for bearing mounting.

 

242, 243 Blue: Classic medium strength threadlocker for most of our threadlocking applications. 243 is the oil tolerant version.

 

222MS, Purple: Low strength threadlocker for small diameter or otherwise delicate fasteners.

Amazing the number of different solutions.....you could always go down to 250 watts and stop your machine shaking itself to bits.....ok,ignore that.

Another alternative would be to cross drill the nut and using stainless lockwire to prevent rotation..... it so happens that my parent company sells stainless lockwire on 0.25 kg bobbins,0.63 or 0.80 mm diameter,never miss a selling opportunity,hehe!!!!

KudosDave

Have castlellated nuts and a split pin been mentioned?

 

You would need a hole in the thread as well.

Have castlellated nuts and a split pin been mentioned?

 

You would need a hole in the thread as well.

 

Rob....the problem is CWAH would have to carry spare split pins....also the usual problem of aligning the castelations with the x-hole and weakening the shaft with the x-drilling.

On the stub axle nuts of rally cars we delete the castle nuts and use the VW method,which has a lock bolt through flanks of the nut....it means you don't have to locate the x-pin hole,but is an expensive part and limited thread sizes.

KudosDave

Rob....the problem is CWAH would have to carry spare split pins....also the usual problem of aligning the castelations with the x-hole and weakening the shaft with the x-drilling.

On the stub axle nuts of rally cars we delete the castle nuts and use the VW method,which has a lock bolt through flanks of the nut....it means you don't have to locate the x-pin hole,but is an expensive part and limited thread sizes.

KudosDave

 

Makes sense on a more extreme application such as a rally car.

 

As regards spare split pins, a castlellated nut can be used without one, although I was only posting in the spirit of other locking nuts, rather than a serious suggestion for the OP.

 

I've never liked locking goo on threads, same as I've never liked instant gasket or other sealants.

 

So my more serious suggestion for an ebike motor would be Nyloc.

 

Or possibly Philadas, but they graunch the threads more than Nylocs.

So, has nobody else here tried Nord Lock washers before? I can't imagine that you'd still be suggesting Nyloc nuts + threadlock if you had. I'm not saying that Nylocs and threadlock doesn't work for you, it just didn't for me running 3kW with frequent use of regen. They're such a simple solution to the problem and are reusable too.

 

For anyone still interested, here is a demonstration video of them in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgwmuZuJ02I

So, has nobody else here tried Nord Lock washers before? I can't imagine that you'd still be suggesting Nyloc nuts + threadlock if you had. I'm not saying that Nylocs and threadlock doesn't work for you, it just didn't for me running 3kW with frequent use of regen. They're such a simple solution to the problem and are reusable too.

 

For anyone still interested, here is a demonstration video of them in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgwmuZuJ02I

 

To be honest never used them,usually the Motorsport world is keen on new solutions. Am very interested in them.....are there any downsides? ....are they available in most thread sizes? What is their primary application? ....are they expensive?

I viewed the video,very well presented.

KudosDave

Edited December 6, 201510 yr by Kudoscycles

Amazing the number of different solutions.....you could always go down to 250 watts and stop your machine shaking itself to bits.....ok,ignore that.

Another alternative would be to cross drill the nut and using stainless lockwire to prevent rotation..... it so happens that my parent company sells stainless lockwire on 0.25 kg bobbins,0.63 or 0.80 mm diameter,never miss a selling opportunity,hehe!!!!

KudosDave

 

 

A product that ever home should have. I get through loads of it.

 

Back in my old GP250 bike racing days, I used to make the fitting of lock wire a work of art. It also used to surprise me just how many people would get it wrong on opposing nut heads.

A product that ever home should have. I get through loads of it.

 

Back in my old GP250 bike racing days, I used to make the fitting of lock wire a work of art. It also used to surprise me just how many people would get it wrong on opposing nut heads.

 

Eddie....you may be amused to know that I am the biggest UK seller of lock wire pliers,sold hundreds this year.....I exhibited at the recent NEC classic show and had to explain many times how they work.

The spinning lock wire pliers produce the neat twist of the wire ends so attractive on vintage cars and motorcycles.

It was amusing when customers picked them up,puzzled but didn't want to admit they didn't understand their operation.

KudosDave

I must confess that I have two pairs of lockwire pliers of different length.

 

My Cleco pliers are another tool that have many baffled.

Bet they cost more than £11.90....the effect of volume production.

KudosDave

Eddie....you may be amused to know that I am the biggest UK seller of lock wire pliers,sold hundreds this year.....I exhibited at the recent NEC classic show and had to explain many times how they work.

The spinning lock wire pliers produce the neat twist of the wire ends so attractive on vintage cars and motorcycles.

It was amusing when customers picked them up,puzzled but didn't want to admit they didn't understand their operation.

KudosDave

War story coming on... The RAF used to teach its aircraft electronic technicians (radar etc) at a place called RAF Locking near Weston Super Mare. One of their mechanical skills was the teaching of wire locking techniques. In the late 70's I was a line engineer for Jaguar aircraft at Lossiemouth. All of a sudden we started to have a series of inflight radio failures, and all the fuss that creates with wing rocking flypast and green flares to give permission to land. Every time we checked the radio it was perfectly serviceable on the test bench and on fitting to the aircraft. But within a flight or two it would fail. The radio unit was on a sliding rack held by wire locked finger nuts. Eventually we found out that RAF Locking had ceased teaching wire locking as a budget saver. So our new radio techs had never seen a wire locked mounting frame before. They were wire locking the nuts but not understanding the mechanical logic, they were quite often wire locking with the tension undoing the nut, not re-enforcing its tightness. A few lessons with our ancient airframe chief technician soon made them understand the logic and theory of the technique and the problems went away. After complaints from our CO, Locking restarted the necessary training. Wire locking is not a simple as it first appears!

To be honest never used them,usually the Motorsport world is keen on new solutions. Am very interested in them.....are there any downsides? ....are they available in most thread sizes? What is their primary application? ....are they expensive?

I viewed the video,very well presented.

KudosDave

Nord Lock washers are intended to prevent bolt loosening where vibration or movement occurs to the fastened material. They are available in a wide range of sizes and a number of different platings. The only downsides I've found so far is that they are a little thicker than regular washers (not usually an issue) and they are quite costly for washers. IMO though, they're still cheap for what they achieve.

War story coming on... The RAF used to teach its aircraft electronic technicians (radar etc) at a place called RAF Locking near Weston Super Mare. One of their mechanical skills was the teaching of wire locking techniques. In the late 70's I was a line engineer for Jaguar aircraft at Lossiemouth. All of a sudden we started to have a series of inflight radio failures, and all the fuss that creates with wing rocking flypast and green flares to give permission to land. Every time we checked the radio it was perfectly serviceable on the test bench and on fitting to the aircraft. But within a flight or two it would fail. The radio unit was on a sliding rack held by wire locked finger nuts. Eventually we found out that RAF Locking had ceased teaching wire locking as a budget saver. So our new radio techs had never seen a wire locked mounting frame before. They were wire locking the nuts but not understanding the mechanical logic, they were quite often wire locking with the tension undoing the nut, not re-enforcing its tightness. A few lessons with our ancient airframe chief technician soon made them understand the logic and theory of the technique and the problems went away. After complaints from our CO, Locking restarted the necessary training. Wire locking is not a simple as it first appears!

 

The technique...something about teaching how to suck eggs!

Cut the wire ends to equal length,grip the wire ends in the plier nose,lock using the slider,pull the twister (like a reverse of the kids spinning toy) until the wire swirls lock against the gaiter or tube,unlock the slider,use the cutters to trim the ends equal length....looks smart when done properly.

You will be amazed how many just cannot get the knack.

 

I think Pedelec members should be complimented on keeping answers to 'Cwah's loose nuts problem' both clean and informative,hehe

KudosDave

I was tempted.

Nylocs.....but don't forget to use new ones every time you change....to work properly the nylon insert is one time use.

KudosDave

I don't want to start an argument here, but that's a counsel of perfection. I have re-used Nylocs for many years and never had one loosen off. I would guess that as long as the thread is clean, it's possible (and safe) to use a Nyloc nut 5-6 times before it starts losing its grip. If it resists you when you are tightening it, it will resist loosening afterwards. I don't think I have ever used a Nyloc in a critical position like an axle or hub nut on a car or motorbike, and I would probably use a new one for this application. But for a bicycle axle I don't think I would be over-concerned. If it worries the OP, I would suggest spending a few quid on a large bag of them and carry a couple along with the patch kit.

Just seen the Nord Lock video, excellent presentation.

I don't want to start an argument here, but that's a counsel of perfection. I have re-used Nylocs for many years and never had one loosen off. I would guess that as long as the thread is clean, it's possible (and safe) to use a Nyloc nut 5-6 times before it starts losing its grip. If it resists you when you are tightening it, it will resist loosening afterwards. I don't think I have ever used a Nyloc in a critical position like an axle or hub nut on a car or motorbike, and I would probably use a new one for this application. But for a bicycle axle I don't think I would be over-concerned. If it worries the OP, I would suggest spending a few quid on a large bag of them and carry a couple along with the patch kit.

 

On the works Ford Rally cars we used to use Nylocs on steering rack track rod ends,TCA /Strut taper pins and steering arm mounts....I dont suppose they would pass MOT,if the steering fails you wait for the big accident,new Nylocs every build!!!!!

KudosDave

We used to reuse Nylocs on road cars a couple of times.

 

I can't recall exactly what they were fitted to, but it wasn't anything safety critical.

 

It was also rare to replace a spring or star washer, even though strictly they are also single use.

 

On a related topic, when my brother was in the RAF he worked on the Queen's Flight.

 

He told me the main difference between that and servicing other jets was if any fixing was removed, it was replaced with new, rather than being reused.

We used to reuse Nylocs on road cars a couple of times.

 

I can't recall exactly what they were fitted to, but it wasn't anything safety critical.

 

It was also rare to replace a spring or star washer, even though strictly they are also single use.

 

On a related topic, when my brother was in the RAF he worked on the Queen's Flight.

 

He told me the main difference between that and servicing other jets was if any fixing was removed, it was replaced with new, rather than being reused.

Also, all lifed items were only run to 50% life before being changed, then they had to have a short period bed-in use before an operational flight with HRH.

 

We had a similar requirment for a single 1 off flight of the Duke of Kent in a Jaguar. Two aircraft were selected, (only one was need) and all documentation examined and lifed items over 50% of normal life were replaced. the ac were then flown for 10 hours to bed in the new items. Only the nominated aircrew and groundcrew were allowed to fly/service the ac, and the aircraft themselves were under RAF Police guard 24/7 until the flight. All this just for 1 hour flight

On the works Ford Rally cars we used to use Nylocs on steering rack track rod ends,TCA /Strut taper pins and steering arm mounts....I dont suppose they would pass MOT,if the steering fails you wait for the big accident,new Nylocs every build!!!!!

KudosDave

No argument from me about using new fasteners in safety-critical applications. Also, it helps if you are set up for this kind of thing. Presumably a works rally team has access to the odd spare fastener in the communal toolbox! For the average Joe working on his driveway, with Halfords ten miles away and probably shut, it's sensible to re-use all sorts of stuff if it's non-critical and looks to be in good order. I've used all sorts of fasteners - old nuts, new nuts, chewed nuts, plain washers, fancy washers, no washers - on my bikes over the years, never seen a torque wrench, done up 'tight enough', and I have never had a wheel fall out yet

Lock tight or similar are a good bit of kit in your tool box;)

I checked for nord lock 14mm on ebay and seller is quoting me 10 euro for shipping:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111832103217?_trksid=p2057872.m2750.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

So it's going to cost me like £15 for few washer... anyway I can find cheaper shop?

I'm not too sure. I found 12mm on ebay from the UK which fit my Crystalyte H3540 perfectly.

What's the axle diameter of your crystalyte? My leaf motor is 14mm