I had a 1 hour test ride on a £2595.00 Kalkhoff Agattu on Saturday. I thought it was a great bike apart from the price. The bike is great quality but is such a high price justified ? This bike will be a birthday present for myself for my 70th birthday and I want to buy the best I can afford and for the long term. I don't want to buy a cheap bike and then being dissatisfied and then need to change in a few months. It could end up being more expensive. Also I like the step through frame and think it could be preferable in a few years when a cross bar becomes hard work. However I have a bit of a hang up about it being a ladies bike ! Do any other men ride these step throughs ? Any advice or experience would be much appreciated.

the law of diminishing returns, I don't think that there is much difference in build quality for e-bikes that are sold at over £2,000.

Do any other men ride these step throughs ?

Yes, plenty. Probably more step through e-bikes are sold to men than to women.

Hello Tomwal,

I'm of a similar age to you and have been riding a step-thru Agattu for the past 8years. I've covered about 5000miles purely for pleasure, and at no great pace, with no problems at all. I've renewed the chain, 1 set of tyres and several sets of brake blocks.

The saddle is coming up for renewal and the original battery is now down to half capacity - I recently did a test run using the lowest assist over a flat course and still got 30miles - not bad.

As regards using a step-thru, try slinging your leg over a crossbar the next time you're in a bike shop! Then think "Will I want/be able to do this 5years from now?".

 

The present day Agattu equivalent to my bike would be the Agattu 7G at £1695 and the battery on that bike is approx 65% bigger than mine. This larger battery would be good for 30-40miles assuming average use. The 7speed hub gears will get you up any hill.

So, unless you envisage spending 4+hours in the saddle, covering 50+ miles, there is no point in spending £2595 on the top of the range Agattu with the even bigger 17Ah battery.

As you've rightly noted, ebikes are not cheap and you need to pay £1000 and more for a good bike. But it is your birthday and, well, your not getting any younger, so go for it!

It's a reliable solid bike. I had one.

It,s potentially dull. not the most exciting bike but you won't need to get a new one for years. The Afine 11 speed hub is not rated as reliable as the 8 speed but it should be plenty.

And you have obviously found out how natural the power control feels

Check the Cube range/brand. Probably similar quality to the Kalkhoff, but cheaper. Battery capacity would be less than 17Ah, but you probably won't need such a large battery anyway.

I'm only 60 but having my bike as a means of transport rather than leasre which means stop-start shopping riding etc. I am building a "ladies" frame bike. It isn't a step through because step through frames weigh at least a half a kilo more than "ladies" frames because they need to be reinforced for strength.

 

I spent part of the afternoon looking at potential bikes for conversion in a huge bike shop and was only looking at frames where the leg goes through not over all be it a little higher than the full bore step through.

With the Kalkhoff's you pay good money for a quality bike, my brother's S - ped is about 2 yrs old done 9.5k miles and original battery, yet no faults. His is torque sensor driven and is ridden flat out.

Don't think of it as a ladies bike but as a "Dutch" style. I do. Lol.

I had a 1 hour test ride on a £2595.00 Kalkhoff Agattu on Saturday. I thought it was a great bike apart from the price. The bike is great quality but is such a high price justified ? This bike will be a birthday present for myself for my 70th birthday and I want to buy the best I can afford and for the long term. I don't want to buy a cheap bike and then being dissatisfied and then need to change in a few months. It could end up being more expensive. Also I like the step through frame and think it could be preferable in a few years when a cross bar becomes hard work. However I have a bit of a hang up about it being a ladies bike ! Do any other men ride these step throughs ? Any advice or experience would be much appreciated.

When one of my hips started hurting, a few years ago, I realised it was the twisting movement as I swung my leg over the crossbar that caused the problem. I, too, thought that all and sundry would be watching me on a bike without a crossbar!! It just doesn't matter. I had a 'ladies' bike for two years, then bought a Woosh Santana. The most comfortable bike I've had. That did me two years and 5000 miles, for £625. I liked the bike, and Woosh are a good firm, but I wanted hub gears and a central battery at a price I could afford. I built this:http://www.pandaebikes.com/testimonial/ which cost about £700, using the bars and rack from the Santana, frame from here:http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2014-Newest-26-inch-Single-Bend-Mountain-Bike-Bicycle-Road-Bike-Bicycle-Frame/2030626495.html and battery from here: http://www.bga-reworking.co.uk/e-bike-batteries/insat-li-nmc-ebike-battery-10ah-24v-36v-48v.html I use it seven days a week, and I'm up to about 2000 miles now. It is really comfortable, light, and rides well. I'm not in a hilly area. Hope this helps in your decision on how much to spend.

Thanks for all the ideas. I think I am going to go for the Agattu Premium 8G even though it is rather expensive. From my research I have deduced that battery range is one of the most important parameters. On my other bikes I have always done some touring and with the 17AH battery and up to 90 mile range, riding economically I will be able to continue to tour. Also where I live - Hampstead in NW London - there are quite a lot of hills so on occasions I will need some extra power.

When one of my hips started hurting, a few years ago, I realised it was the twisting movement as I swung my leg over the crossbar that caused the problem. I, too, thought that all and sundry would be watching me on a bike without a crossbar!! It just doesn't matter. I had a 'ladies' bike for two years, then bought a Woosh Santana. The most comfortable bike I've had. That did me two years and 5000 miles, for £625. I liked the bike, and Woosh are a good firm, but I wanted hub gears and a central battery at a price I could afford. I built this:http://www.pandaebikes.com/testimonial/ which cost about £700, using the bars and rack from the Santana, frame from here:http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2014-Newest-26-inch-Single-Bend-Mountain-Bike-Bicycle-Road-Bike-Bicycle-Frame/2030626495.html and battery from here: http://www.bga-reworking.co.uk/e-bike-batteries/insat-li-nmc-ebike-battery-10ah-24v-36v-48v.html I use it seven days a week, and I'm up to about 2000 miles now. It is really comfortable, light, and rides well. I'm not in a hilly area. Hope this helps in your decision on how much to spend.

 

You know that bikediscount.de sells end of series Cube frames from 89 € and up don't you?

You know that bikediscount.de sells end of series Cube frames from 89 € and up don't you?

No, I didn't, so I had a look, thanks. The reason I bought the frame I have now is because it is purpose-made for electric bikes. It has the type of battery that is easily available (I bought a 15AH) and all the other components are standard. There is somewhere to put the controller, rather than hanging canvas bags off the frame etc. The only other bikes I've found which are like mine are the Smarta, which no longer seems to have 3 speed, and is a bit dear for me, and the Ezee Primo, which ties me to the Ezee battery etc. The most I've done on mine is 30 miles, with 2 bars left on the top of the battery. I have never ridden it to a flat battery! (I get knackered easily!)

Thanks for all the ideas. I think I am going to go for the Agattu Premium 8G even though it is rather expensive. From my research I have deduced that battery range is one of the most important parameters. On my other bikes I have always done some touring and with the 17AH battery and up to 90 mile range, riding economically I will be able to continue to tour. Also where I live - Hampstead in NW London - there are quite a lot of hills so on occasions I will need some extra power.

 

You won't be sorry. They're great bikes. I've got the 17ah battery as well and it's mightily impressive.

 

The price is a little scary and most people frown when I tell them how much mine cost new (bought used and it's a Pro-Connect but with the same motor, battery and 8G hub as yours). I rode to a pub in Devon a year ago from a campsite we were staying in. I charged the battery at the pub in exchange for three real ales ( ) and spoke to a couple of mountain bikers there. They asked how much mine cost new and they didn't frown when I told them. That was due to the fact they were both riding some high end carbon bikes that were in excess of £3500 each. Sometimes, to some people paying a lot for a bike is just worth it. In the case of both your future and my present bike, I actually see the value now.

No, I didn't, so I had a look, thanks. The reason I bought the frame I have now is because it is purpose-made for electric bikes. It has the type of battery that is easily available (I bought a 15AH) and all the other components are standard. There is somewhere to put the controller, rather than hanging canvas bags off the frame etc. The only other bikes I've found which are like mine are the Smarta, which no longer seems to have 3 speed, and is a bit dear for me, and the Ezee Primo, which ties me to the Ezee battery etc. The most I've done on mine is 30 miles, with 2 bars left on the top of the battery. I have never ridden it to a flat battery! (I get knackered easily!)

 

The HL battery with internal controller fits inside many "women's" frames and is fast becoming a standard. I understand where you are coming from, I have canvas bag syndrome myself!

Well after another test ride which includes a steeper hill, I have put the deposit down on a Kalkhoff Agattu Premium 8G. On my current mountain bike I could have climbed the hill but would have been sweating and exhausted. On the Agattu it required a lot less effort and I was able to continue the ride with no

stop for a rest. One of the best things about the bike is that it is not bulky and heavy. I can ride it on the level very easily with no assistance like a normal bike

and when there is a steeper incline and I feel tired I just switch on the requred power level. I reckon I am going to be getting a really good range on it - enough for touring when I might do 70-80 miles maximum in a day. The other thing I like is the quality of the frame - no ugly welds etc. It is black and has a nice tasteful appearance. It would fit in nicely in Holland. Also it has good suspension forks and seat post. It is no off-roader but I can ride unsurfaced paths and tracks with no problem. I have had the will power to postpone delivery until my 70th birthday in early May - Looking forward to being 70 now !

Well after another test ride which includes a steeper hill, I have put the deposit down on a Kalkhoff Agattu Premium 8G. On my current mountain bike I could have climbed the hill but would have been sweating and exhausted. On the Agattu it required a lot less effort and I was able to continue the ride with no

stop for a rest. One of the best things about the bike is that it is not bulky and heavy. I can ride it on the level very easily with no assistance like a normal bike

and when there is a steeper incline and I feel tired I just switch on the requred power level. I reckon I am going to be getting a really good range on it - enough for touring when I might do 70-80 miles maximum in a day. The other thing I like is the quality of the frame - no ugly welds etc. It is black and has a nice tasteful appearance. It would fit in nicely in Holland. Also it has good suspension forks and seat post. It is no off-roader but I can ride unsurfaced paths and tracks with no problem. I have had the will power to postpone delivery until my 70th birthday in early May - Looking forward to being 70 now !

So, you've had your birthday now Tomwal, and taken delivery of your well earned pressie. What's the verdict?

It has lived up to expectations and I am really enjoying it. It is fantastic for getting around London. I can go up the steepest hills in Hampstead with ease.

I love the appearance of the bike - it has that retro all black appearance like a Dutch bike but at the same time is very high tech including belt drive. Being a step through It is very comfortable and I can ride it in ordinary clothes and shoes which I can't do on my mountain bike (which I still use). The other thing is that it still gives you good exercise - no way is it "cheating". One annoying thing was the insurance. Because it is so expensive I had to take out cycle insurance at £150.00 p.a. and they insisted that I upgrade to a gold level lock and also I had to put an anchor in my garage floor and I have to chain it to that when it is in the garage.

Also I have the 17AH battery which gives a great range. I ride in Eco mode most of the time and switch on sport or power when I am climbing a steep hill. It is like a magic carpet.

That's what I had feared! Looks like we'll be spending more than we initially intended, but then don't we all. Thanks for a great review.

It has lived up to expectations and I am really enjoying it.

 

Make sure you monitor any motor noises, as the Kalkhoff Impulse II motor on your Agattu has some mechanical design flaws (basically, it would appear that the Impulse 2 crank driven motor has some internal plastic gears are not suited for the torque provided), meaning that it can fail, even with low mileage. If you start hearing some noises from the motor, it can indicate some initial stage of failure.

 

You may want to be careful, as the motor cannot be repaired (only replaced fully), and this costs £600 once out of warranty (plus the bike out for days/weeks), so it can be an expensive breakdown.

 

Unfortunately, it means that, even when you spend a large amount on a bike, it won't necessarily mean all the components are of top quality, particularly the proprietary ones you can't swap for other brands.

Make sure you monitor any motor noises, as the Kalkhoff Impulse II motor on your Agattu has some mechanical design flaws (basically, it would appear that the Impulse 2 crank driven motor has some internal plastic gears are not suited for the torque provided), meaning that it can fail, even with low mileage. If you start hearing some noises from the motor, it can indicate some initial stage of failure.

 

You may want to be careful, as the motor cannot be repaired (only replaced fully), and this costs £600 once out of warranty (plus the bike out for days/weeks), so it can be an expensive breakdown.

 

Unfortunately, it means that, even when you spend a large amount on a bike, it won't necessarily mean all the components are of top quality, particularly the proprietary ones you can't swap for other brands.

 

That said. It's worth pointing out that Derby cycles said (in THAT thread) that they will replace any motors affected by THAT potential problem even if it's outside of the warranty.

 

I haven't seen this put in to practice yet but i'm sure it will happen at some point.

That said. It's worth pointing out that Derby cycles said (in THAT thread) that they will replace any motors affected by THAT potential problem even if it's outside of the warranty.

 

I haven't seen this put in to practice yet but i'm sure it will happen at some point.

 

How depressing ! I have done about 150 miles now with no problems. I will ask 50cycles to check it out just in case. They seem very helpful so far. The bike is absolutely excellent by the way.

That said. It's worth pointing out that Derby cycles said (in THAT thread) that they will replace any motors affected by THAT potential problem even if it's outside of the warranty.

 

I haven't seen this put in to practice yet but i'm sure it will happen at some point.

 

I don't think that's correct: Derby Cycles are the manufacturer, and have never said that they would extend their warranty on the motor beyond the initial 2 years.

 

50 Cycles (the exclusive UK importer/distributor for Kalkhoff bikes) won't commit either to extend the warranty on the motor beyond 2 years, and have charged people for replacements, even when only low mileage was done, and despite the fact that it's a known manufacturing defect. If they don't get free replacements from the manufacturer, it will just affect their own margin.

 

Regardless of warranty of not, there is still of course the inconvenience of bringing back the bike to the shop, being without the bike for days/weeks (as it has happen to me twice), and possibly being stranded miles from home without assistance, on a very heavy unpowered bike (also happened to me).

Edited May 29, 20169 yr by Tomtomato

How depressing ! I have done about 150 miles now with no problems.

 

It's indeed very depressing, as those bikes are very expensive and appears to be well made. However, the electric assistance is the weak link, and unfortunately, the motor cannot be replaced by another model or another brand (unlike all other mechanical components). Some people had Impulse 2 motor failure in fairly low mileage (e.g. 100 miles), on their Kalkhoff Agattu, Pro Connect, Endeavour, Tasman etc (or the Focus models).

 

As for 50 Cycles, their approach to after sales is fairly...casual, but it varies also between shops. Do check the various posts.

 

My own experience has been quite poor, with many visits required to the shop, new issues/damages introduced when the bike was in their care, accessories lost (they stated afterwards that they were not responsible for anything lost while the bike was in their care, and never replaced them), and bike out of action for weeks. They don't even officially provide a first free bike check, even though any bike shop (on bikes costing a couple of hundreds) would do so. They told me I was lucky to get the first one free.

 

Surely not a premium experience expected for the very high price paid.

Edited May 29, 20169 yr by Tomtomato

I don't think that's correct: Derby Cycles are the manufacturer, and have never said that they would extend their warranty on the motor beyond the initial 2 years.

 

50 Cycles (the exclusive UK importer/distributor for Kalkhoff bikes) won't commit either to extend the warranty on the motor beyond 2 years, and have charged people for replacements, even when only low mileage was done, and despite the fact that it's a known manufacturing defect. If they don't get free replacements from the manufacturer, it will just affect their own margin.

 

Regardless of warranty of not, there is still of course the inconvenience of bringing back the bike to the shop, being without the bike for days/weeks (as it has happen to me twice), and possibly being stranded miles from home without assistance, on a very heavy unpowered bike (also happened to me).

 

I wonder how many other people this has happened to ?

Also I wonder how other motors (Bosch, Yamaha etc) compare for reliability.

 

The bike is great to ride but I am worried now. I am beginning to think that not only did I buy the most expensive bike but I may also bought the most unreliable.

 

50cycles have offered me a free first service and I am going to tell them about this and will ask them to check it over thoroughly.

I wonder how many other people this has happened to ?

Also I wonder how other motors (Bosch, Yamaha etc) compare for reliability.

Quite a few people in the UK have reported it, and there are also many reports of the fault on German, Dutch and French websites. It's not an isolated issue, but a design flaw in that motor.

 

Not many people are reporting reliability issues with Bosch motors, Yamaha or Panasonic. Kalkhoff bikes used to have Panasonic motors, before they decided to develop their own (I guess to keep their manufacturing costs down).

I am beginning to think that not only did I buy the most expensive bike but I may also bought the most unreliable.

Unfortunately, in this case, expensive and made in Germany does not necessarily equate to more reliable. They probably made about 45% margin on the bike you purchased. A push version of the bike you bought (without motor assistance) would probably be worth £500-£600 maximum.

 

See for example http://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/de/bikes/my-bike/allround/agattu-hs-8r.html

 

Adding a mid-drive motor and battery would probably add £600 - £700 to the price, so you can guess their margins. You could create the same electric assisted bike, for about half the price (at retail cost).

 

I am going to tell them about this and will ask them to check it over thoroughly.

 

They are fully aware of the issue (after pretending there was no issue for several months). Just ask them to commit in writing to provide you warranty on the motor for a reasonable duration/mileage (e.g. 4 years/6,000 miles, given the bike cost) and see their response, in term of how they stand by their products.

 

I don't think there is much they can check, as the motor is a non serviceable part. The main issue to check for is whether you start getting some noise from the motor, usually indicating an upcoming failure.

Edited May 29, 20169 yr by Tomtomato