Maybe you could have a referendum on pedelec speed limits?

 

...

 

Then we could have a speed limit on bicycle paths of 15 kph like they do in Spain. That limit drops to 10 kph when there is a lot of pedestrians near the bike path and 5 kph when it is a shared path. That is a very intelligent system, if you want to go fast then go play with the cars on the road else limit your speed.

 

Apparently if you are very rich you can buy a car that can do 480 kph, unfortunately in France motorways have a 130 kph speed limit so it is kind of a waste those 350 extra kph. How many cyclists could you kill if you ran into the Tour de France peloton at 480 kph? Answer: all of them...

The EU/UK assistance limit of 25kph is NOT fast. Especially for an e-road bike. It may well be an unsuitable speed to ride at on a shared path, so yes, limit your speed. An assisted limit for e-road bikes of 30kph, as in the US, would be much more realistic and enable the users of e-road bikes to keep up on rides with fellow riders on unassisted road bikes. Of course - there is no limit unassisted above 25kph anyway if one still has the leg power required.

I don't really understand your final point about 480kph cars?

Edited September 11, 20196 yr by youngoldbloke

Problem is vehicles drivers can't anticipate speed very well especially a bicycle travelling at speed exception may be a lycra lout. I have my assist set to 20mph and a lot of cars just can't anticipate /judge my speed as I approach junctions, the main issue here is they are not willing to give way as driving styles gets worse.

I try and keep eye contact as I negotiate junctions and always have my brakes covered in readiness to stop or slow down.

Problem is vehicles drivers can't anticipate speed very well especially a bicycle travelling at speed exception may be a lycra lout. I have my assist set to 20mph and a lot of cars just can't anticipate /judge my speed as I approach junctions, the main issue here is they are not willing to give way as driving styles gets worse.

I try and keep eye contact as I negotiate junctions and always have my brakes covered in readiness to stop or slow down.

I totally agree, and I think many drivers are losing any respect for cyclists because of the way lycra louts cycle along country lanes in packs without making any attempt to allow cars to pass, the way some cyclists ignore the law and cycle through lights on red etc etc and also the actions of idiots such as the one reported yesterday:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-49646575/hunt-for-cyclist-who-headbutted-pedestrian-to-ground

The use of shared resources, such as roads and pavements, relies on mutual respect by the users and this is a 2 way thing.

I think you're very wise in the way you're cycling.

I totally agree, and I think many drivers are losing any respect for cyclists because of the way lycra louts cycle along country lanes in packs without making any attempt to allow cars to pass, the way some cyclists ignore the law and cycle through lights on red etc etc and also the actions of idiots such as the one reported yesterday:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-49646575/hunt-for-cyclist-who-headbutted-pedestrian-to-ground

The use of shared resources, such as roads and pavements, relies on mutual respect by the users and this is a 2 way thing.

I think you're very wise in the way you're cycling.

The same problem exists with pedestrians on shared cycle paths and footpaths, the average pedestrian wanders down the cycle path without a care, mothers 3 abreast with pushchairs etc, etc. I will always give pedestrians right of way and take care around them but shared cycle paths can be frustrating. I generally ride in the road but then sometimes I hear shouts from motorists saying "use the bloody cycle path", I prefer cycle paths shared with the road than the pedestrian walkways.

I totally agree, and I think many drivers are losing any respect for cyclists because of the way lycra louts cycle along country lanes in packs without making any attempt to allow cars to pass, the way some cyclists ignore the law and cycle through lights on red etc etc and also the actions of idiots such as the one reported yesterday:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-49646575/hunt-for-cyclist-who-headbutted-pedestrian-to-ground

The use of shared resources, such as roads and pavements, relies on mutual respect by the users and this is a 2 way thing.

I think you're very wise in the way you're cycling.

Maybe so, but what has this to do with raising the assisted speed limit for ebikes? The person on a bike involved in the incident in London that you refer to could hardly be described as a lycra lout. Just a lout riding a bike, just as louts drive cars http://news.met.police.uk/news/boy-16-arrested-on-suspicion-of-attempted-murder-after-17-year-old-dragged-under-car-380891

The EU/UK assistance limit of 25kph is NOT fast. Especially for an e-road bike.

 

Your last sentence shows the misunderstanding. The e-power is a concession intended as assistance for those who need it. It's not about enabling anyone to perform like a roadie, and that is specifically why there is a utility riding assist speed limit. Indeed that was spelt out by one of the early legislators for this standard.

 

The problem this thread illustrates is that "e-biking" is now misusing the concession by large numbers treating e-bikes as a new class of motor vehicle. They are not motor vehicles, nor are they e-bikes. They are pedelecs and are just bicycles with a degree of assistance.

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Your last sentence shows the misunderstanding. The e-power is a concession intended as assistance for those who need it. It's not about enabling anyone to perform like a roadie, and that is specifically why there is a utility riding assist speed limit. Indeed that was spelt out by one of the early legislators for this standard.

 

The problem this thread illustrates is that "e-biking" is now misusing the concession by large numbers treating e-bikes as a new class of motor vehicle. They are not motor vehicles, nor are they e-bikes. They are pedelecs and are just bicycles with a degree of assistance.

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I think the misunderstanding remains yours. Electrically assisted road bikes are now a fact of life. Yes, they are 'bicycles with a degree of assistance'. I have ridden road bikes for almost 60 years. I suppose that makes me a 'roadie' in your eyes. I also wear appropriate cycling clothing so perhaps a 'lycra lout' too. I now have restricted blood supply to the muscles in both legs. I now need assistance. Is it unreasonable for me to try to continue my cycling activity in the way I'm accustomed to? I'm not a 'utility cyclist' or an MTB-er, so 15.5mph/25kph cut off limit for assistance seems an inappropriately low figure to me.

What is a 'utility riding assist'?

With just 555 signatures this is going nowhere very slowly:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/260665

I think the misunderstanding remains yours.

 

Not at all, since I know the origins of this worldwide law. It is what the legislators say it is, not what you'd like it to be

 

What is a 'utility riding assist'?

 

It's the cycling speed the legislators see as normal for cycling as transport, the most commonly seen cycling throughout the world.

 

Britain is an odd one out, due to the way adult utility cycling almost completely disappeared here in the 1960s and 1970s with the rise in motor vehicle ownership.

 

Volume cycling returned with the mountain bike from 1980 on and a subsequent increase in road cycling, all of it sporting in nature. So in the absence of utility cycling the most common road cycling speed here became around 20 mph, far faster than before the cycling decline in the 1950s when most cycling was centred around 12 mph.

 

Meanwhile almost all of the rest of the world continued with their slower utility cycling. The other odd one out is the USA where adult cycling was never transport in the past, always only done for fun or sport.

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Edited September 11, 20196 yr by flecc

- that being the case distinction should be made between 'utility' and 'sport', and the cut off limit for 'sport' e-bikes raised to a more realistic level.

just get a dongle pmsl had mine for 5 years now

just get a dongle pmsl had mine for 5 years now

I expect I will …...

- that being the case distinction should be made between 'utility' and 'sport', and the cut off limit for 'sport' e-bikes raised to a more realistic level.

 

You still aren't getting it. There is no provision for sport e-bikes in most of the world.

 

There is in Switzerland, and within the EU in Germany, Denmark and The Netherlands. There they can have the S class high speed e-bikes, allowed up to 500 watts rating and up to 28 mph assist. But they have to be registered with insurance and a rear number plate and are not allowed on cycle paths.

 

We can only have those in in Britain if registered and ridden only on roads as a moped with suitable driving licence and all other motor vehicle stuff, since the assist speed is similar. It follows that your petition request will never be allowed, since it will mean dual treatment for the same thing.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not personally against a higher limit, I'm just trying for the umpteenth time this issue has been raised to show why it will never happen.

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I get it - and I accept it will not happen - just saying a distinction should be made. I'll just have to put up with the pain to ride in excess of 15mph, or break the law.

It's not my petition BTW

or break the law.

 

That's what most wanting higher assist speed do. It's a pity that the S class was elevated to 500 watts and 45 kph (28 mph) assist due to German public demand.

 

Originally the S class bikes were just ordinary 250 watt pedelecs with a higher assist limit and only capable of about 20mph assist on the flat before running out of steam. That was sensible since they didn't the attract the attention of any authorities.

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the police are not interested i have even tried to get them to chase me and there just not going to do jack unless you kill someone.

the police are not interested i have even tried to get them to chase me and there just not going to do jack unless you kill someone.

 

Its matter of time before that happens. Just matter of statistics as more and more illegal ebikes bikes hit the road every year

 

However, I still think you are bang on correct. The fact that a girl died on an e scooter (not the vespa type but the electric kick scooter type).....and precisely nothing has been done to enforce the law anywhere. Thse things are not a bit illegal but totally and utterly on any possible level

 

Brighton is full of them, London is full of them. Not aware of folk even getting a smack on the wrist !

Its matter of time before that happens. Just matter of statistics as more and more illegal ebikes bikes hit the road every year

 

However, I still think you are bang on correct. The fact that a girl died on an e scooter (not the vespa type but the electric kick scooter type).....and precisely nothing has been done to enforce the law anywhere. Thse things are not a bit illegal but totally and utterly on any possible level

 

Brighton is full of them, London is full of them. Not aware of folk even getting a smack on the wrist !

There was some police activity in London after the accident:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49127427

I don't know whether this continued though

 

I don't know whether this continued though

 

I have no idea either but I'd bet the farm it hasnt been ! Especially outside london . Just a quick knee jerk reaction for publicity

I have no idea either but I'd bet the farm it hasnt been ! Especially outside london . Just a quick knee jerk reaction for publicity

The Government decided we don't need so many police and we're seeing the consequences.....

The Government decided we don't need so many police and we're seeing the consequences.....

 

Let's stop now before this becomes the Brexit thread!

 

But yep, could nt agree more. And I work with colleagues who are 50% ex police. Forced out one way or another due to relentless cuts

Problem is vehicles drivers can't anticipate speed very well especially a bicycle travelling at speed exception may be a lycra lout. I have my assist set to 20mph and a lot of cars just can't anticipate /judge my speed as I approach junctions, the main issue here is they are not willing to give way as driving styles gets worse.

I try and keep eye contact as I negotiate junctions and always have my brakes covered in readiness to stop or slow down.

 

I would like the limit increased to 18 mph and the speed limit on paths set at 15 mph. I rarely use my brakes in small town traffic. Need them when it gets busier in bigger towns and on paths at weekends.

Edited September 11, 20196 yr by Perseus

I don't really understand your final point about 480kph cars?

 

Nobody needs a road car that can go that fast and the owner will be trusted to respect the road code. Pedelecs are physically limited, the rider isn't trusted to respect 25 kph cut off on his own. Kind of a double standard was my point.

 

On my very short commute I average 22.7 kph. My top speed is in the low 40s and there are a couple of slopes where I struggle to top 18 kph, 25 kph average I can only dream of...

Bit off topic but, Husain Bolt can run at 28mph...thought I'd just throw that in.

At the end of the day ebikes are a much more cost-effective way of commuting to work without sweating and stinking when you get there. It is a growing market, roads will be safer with more bikes and less cars (your much less likely to kill someone at 30 mph on a 20-30kg bike than a 1500kg car) obviously the laws need updating with new classes of vehicle, new mot's and safety laws etc. I agree the 15 mph limit is fine for vehicles classed as bicycles for riding on pavements and cycle paths but speed pedelecs will take off, personally as I said before I'm happy riding in the road and paying insurance. This petition is pointless, it's more classes of ebike we need and rules that make them easier to type approve but maintain safety with mot checks and age limits etc.