March 24, 20206 yr The treaty of Rome prohibits companies from producing products that only they can work on. Bosch produces products no one can work on, including themselves. That's perfectly legal. Bosch are a large, solid, EU based company with a good no quibble 2 year warranty on its products but its business model is one of replacement and not repair. Also perfectly legal. Personally I like their products and accept that they do go wrong and need replacing. That includes the possibility of failure after 2 years and a day. No Ebike lasts forever and the chances of buying multiple short life Bosch products in a row is astronomically low. I'll continue to buy and continue to recommend Bosch based Ebikes. Looking back at some of the nightmare car MOT bills I've had over the years replacing a Bosch battery is almost a pleasure. Darren Well I don't think that it is an open business model at all to make things that no-one can repair, not because of any intrinsic reason but just to make profit. They install unnecessary electronic circuits to make their things irreparable. To me, this is not playing fair with the customer and all the small repair businesses. Bosch are 'hiding their reprehensible behaviour behind the law' I wouldn't touch their products at all.
March 25, 20206 yr I agree Mike. The 'locked in' nature of Bosch products has me avoiding them, just like Apple stuff. A bike is an easy to self maintain, low tech machine that can have a long life. Obviously converting it to an e-bike ups the complexity but, by using generic seperate parts, it can be kept as simple as possible. My bike can be repaired in the shed (actually the kitchen as the shed's full of logs) each part serviceable by me. When I converted my bike back in 2014 my knowledge of bike mechanics was historic, boyhood stuff. Since then I've converted 4 bikes, replaced drive trains, converted brakes to hydraulic and generally maintained our two bikes, all with the help of this forum. The stories we see on here of the way people are treated by 'experts', and some of the BS they get fobbed of with in shops just annoys me. Seems to me the term 'Bosch service centre' is a total misnomer. It should be the, 'We can't touch that but we know where to send it so they can tell you it's scrap and you need to but a new one' centre. But it doesn't roll off the tongue does it?
March 25, 20206 yr I bought a Bosch powered bike. The reasons were many and varied, Firstly, after copious amounts of research and reading reviews etc, (a lot of it on this forum), it was clear that many, many people have had Bosch bikes for many years/thousands of miles which are still going strong, Secondly, after testing lots of different styles, brands, drivetrain and motor options, the bike I chose was by far the nicest the ride, and best suited my needs, Thirdly, the 2 year replacement warranty, I'm of the belief, (maybe wrongly), that if something, anything, is going to go wrong, it will most likely be within that timescale. I have so far covered 500 miles, and the bike, motor, and battery have performed perfectly.
March 25, 20206 yr I bought a Bosch powered bike. The reasons were many and varied, Firstly, after copious amounts of research and reading reviews etc, (a lot of it on this forum), it was clear that many, many people have had Bosch bikes for many years/thousands of miles which are still going strong, Secondly, after testing lots of different styles, brands, drivetrain and motor options, the bike I chose was by far the nicest the ride, and best suited my needs, Thirdly, the 2 year replacement warranty, I'm of the belief, (maybe wrongly), that if something, anything, is going to go wrong, it will most likely be within that timescale. I have so far covered 500 miles, and the bike, motor, and battery have performed perfectly. Nobody is saying that Bosch bikes are no good. Just that when they do inevitably go wrong, you are left with a sour taste as you realise how badly you have been treated.
March 25, 20206 yr Nobody is saying that Bosch bikes are no good. Just that when they do inevitably go wrong, you are left with a sour taste as you realise how badly you have been treated. How are people being treated badly? If anything goes wrong within the warranty period, it's replaced, if anything goes wrong after the warranty, then it's the owners problem, that's true of anything you buy.
March 25, 20206 yr The treaty of Rome prohibits companies from producing products that only they can work on. Bosch produces products no one can work on, including themselves. That's perfectly legal. Bosch are a large, solid, EU based company with a good no quibble 2 year warranty on its products but its business model is one of replacement and not repair. Also perfectly legal. Personally I like their products and accept that they do go wrong and need replacing. That includes the possibility of failure after 2 years and a day. No Ebike lasts forever and the chances of buying multiple short life Bosch products in a row is astronomically low. I'll continue to buy and continue to recommend Bosch based Ebikes. Looking back at some of the nightmare car MOT bills I've had over the years replacing a Bosch battery is almost a pleasure. Darren I find comparing a problem e-bike battery cost, to a car that can carry 4 or more passengers, far faster, plus luggage, in comfort on both hot and cold days, to be a poor way to explain the way Bosch treats its customers. That is a very poor comparison. I would not accept what Bosch does with its customers myself, which is why I ride a far different e-bike, one having nothing to do with Bosch! But each to his own, if you feel that its acceptable for yourself, thats fine by me. Have a good day and stay healthy Andy
March 25, 20206 yr then it's the owners problem, that's true of anything you buy. Yes, but with some things it is a little problem for the owner, and with others it can be a much bigger problem.
March 25, 20206 yr How are people being treated badly? If anything goes wrong within the warranty period, it's replaced, if anything goes wrong after the warranty, then it's the owners problem, that's true of anything you buy. Because even the simplest of repairs is deliberately prevented.
March 25, 20206 yr Because even the simplest of repairs is deliberately prevented. And costly when the warranty period ends.
March 26, 20206 yr I didn;t exctly choose an ebike with Bosch stuff - I bought a lower priced Raleigh and they upgraded me when there were problams (Great service from Raleigh and the LBS by the way!!!) - so I sort of just ended up with it However, I am extremly pleased with the system - I suppose I just have to look after it and hope it doesn't go wrong any time soon!! I would be very dissapointed if it breaks within a few years as my previous ebiek lasted me 10 years and was (apparently!!) over a year old when I got it. Never went wrong - just got a new battery after 4 years and recelled it after another 5 years
March 26, 20206 yr There's nothing inherently wrong with Bosch stuff, according to Which? their white goods are amongst the most reliable and an awful lot of cars are using their electronics. It's just that many people prefer to buy cheap Chinese crap, and there's nothing wrong with that.
March 26, 20206 yr It's just that many people prefer to buy cheap Chinese crap, and there's nothing wrong with that. And of course more people choose to buy really good quality cheaper Chinese goods. The Bosch is probably one of the better (but not best) Chinese manufactured motors.
March 26, 20206 yr And of course more people choose to buy really good quality cheaper Chinese goods. The Bosch is probably one of the better (but not best) Chinese manufactured motors. But designed in Germany, and thereby lies the difference.
March 26, 20206 yr Clearly some poor Chinese designs, but the difference far from always in the German's favour. (on a bigger scale, new airports in Beijing and Berlin).
March 26, 20206 yr I'm not familiar with either airport so you missed me with that one. By "cheap Chinese crap" I'm referring to the monstrosities you see advertised in the papers or on eBay for < £400 or so. The things being imported by Del Boy individuals who provide no backup or expertise. Also the components designed by and made by unknown Chinese companies, motors from "Smiley Motors Inc", brakes whose cables snap when you pull too hard, that sort of thing.... Absolute garbage.
March 26, 20206 yr Chinese companies are flexible. They sell you what you want. They make carbon fibre bikes for everyone for example, from $500 to $5,000 a bike. One thing though, they don't rip you off for spares.
March 26, 20206 yr I agree that there are Chinese rubbish products; but your posts suggest all Chinese designed motors are rubbish ... which is rubbish. The new Beijing airport was build on time and on budget, and from all I have heard (never seen it) of excellent quality. The new Berlin airport has a record that makes Crossrail look good. I must admit that there are many rather ruthless polices in China that enabled that efficiency; I'd probably rather rub along with good old German inefficiency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Brandenburg_Airport construction began in 2006. Originally planned to open in October 2011, the airport has encountered a series of delays and cost overruns. These were due to poor construction planning, execution, management, as well as corruption.[11][12][13] Late 2020 became the new target for the official opening date[14][15][16] as 2019 became too improbable.[17][18] A TÜV report published in November 2017 suggested that the opening could be delayed until 2021.[19][20][21][22] or https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-48527308 The airport with half a million faults Edited March 26, 20206 yr by sjpt
March 26, 20206 yr I agree that there are Chinese rubbish products; but your posts suggest all Chinese designed motors are rubbish ... which is rubbish. No, as I said: "Also the components designed by and made by unknown Chinese companies, motors from "Smiley Motors Inc"". Heathrow's Terminal 5 was built on time and on budget. Best not to talk about Crossrail and HS2 eh...
March 26, 20206 yr Chinese companies are flexible. They sell you what you want. They make carbon fibre bikes for everyone for example, from $500 to $5,000 a bike. One thing though, they don't rip you off for spares. Absolutely, you can get good Chinese stuff if you know what you're doing. But you have to admit, there is some Chinese rubbish around.
March 26, 20206 yr like what? A 30s search on eBay revealed this little beauty: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WHIRLWIND-Folding-Electric-Bike-Moped-Car-Bicycle-Scooter-City-E-Bike-25km-h/283789702690?hash=item42132f3622%3Ag%3ADBMAAOSw8lpeTm-v&LH_ItemCondition=3 I can't believe you haven't come across any rubbish Chinese ebikes and ebike parts.
March 26, 20206 yr A 30s search on eBay revealed this little beauty: I can't believe you haven't come across any rubbish Chinese ebikes and ebike parts. it says on the webpage: UK made!
March 26, 20206 yr it says on the webpage: UK made! I know, it keeps the duties down. Aren't your bikes "made in the UK"?
March 26, 20206 yr like what? Here's another beut on eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-Bike-Folding-Moped-Bicycle-E-bike-14-Wheel-25km-h-w-USB-Charge-Port/274317327881?hash=item3fde963e09:g:7oMAAOSwrpheaFe~ It's much better than the Whirlwind, it's a Dohiker with "fenders", "stab proof tires" and a long lasting battery. All for a bargain £389, do you do anything to match that?
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