Yes I was thinking maybe battery is ok, but its the ignition barrel. I wont have a clue how to check that, maybe its best if I take bike or hope it will get me to a place where they check wiring. But dont know if they do bikes mostly cars I think. I mean even when I had to push bike home the 1st time. it only took 30 mins to charge up bike again. and I'm sure it wasn't flat then. I will try and see if I can find any loose wires

 

What I am confused about is what is that black wire from battery for then as it seems to go to a charging port, but the 3 pin surely must be charge port but was told its discharge port so what's other one

I had to replace the ignition switch on one of those bikes. I don't think they're up to the job. The one I fixed didn't work at all.

What I am confused about is what is that black wire from battery for then as it seems to go to a charging port, but the 3 pin surely must be charge port but was told its discharge port so what's other one

That black wire is TWO wires, + and - and as I said, is the connector to charge the battery through the BMS. The battery you have is not from Erider, so the connector on your Erider charger does not match the connector on the battery. Erider batteries use the same wires/connector to charge the battery and to power the bike. It's prob. best to find the source of the bad connection on your switch before deciding if the battery needs replacing.

I had to replace the ignition switch on one of those bikes. I don't think they're up to the job. The one I fixed didn't work at all.

Well I can’t say for definite if it is the ignition barrel but it does seem it could be as every time you have stopped turned off bike. Then go back to it that’s when it seems to be ok again. Maybe I should have tried that the time I had to push it all way home dam hard work. I won’t even have a clue how to remove one to check

That black wire is TWO wires, + and - and as I said, is the connector to charge the battery through the BMS. The battery you have is not from Erider, so the connector on your Erider charger does not match the connector on the battery. Erider batteries use the same wires/connector to charge the battery and to power the bike. It's prob. best to find the source of the bad connection on your switch before deciding if the battery needs replacing.

 

I’m really sorry but I don’t understand what you mean as that 3pin discharge plug surely is where you charge up battery as it has same plug on bike. And there is just 2 wires to that 3 pin red black. But there is another single black wire to this other connector which I still don’t know what it’s for are you saying that single connector is the plug to charge battery I’m so confused now

That 3 pin connector must be to charge battery, as today battery said 52.1Volts and I have now plugged in that charger what plugs into the 3 pin socket on batt case, and battery now says 53.2Volts so its defo charging it. I still cannot see what you mean about that single Black wire. what go to that single connector what does look like where you plug in a single pin charger so Now I'm totally baffled what the black wire does. yet you say its 2 wires well unless my eyes are bad its just 1 black wire, can anyone else here confirm what that other connector is. btw this seller at 1st used wrong charger , as he said he contacted ebikes, and they told him the charger he is using is for SLA batteries. so he bought this 3 pin charger I have now which they said is for Lithium batteries

 

Also would anyone here knows how to remove ignition barrel on a ERider Model 15

 

Plus I forgot to mention on the right handle bars there is another key slot, and some sort of meter near it. but seller said he don't know what that's for plus he only had the one key, and it don't fit that. I will try to remember to take a photo of it later and upload

Edited August 24, 20214 yr by billyboya

this is that 3 pin connector on battery case and also the single black wire one but don't know what the single one is for as I use the 3 pin connector to charge batt.

I sorry if i have caused you confusion, I can only comment on what I see in your photos, I'm just trying to advise you on the correct, safe way to charge your battery. I freely admit i am not the best when it comes to remote assistance/advise. Maybe someone else can advise in a clearer way you can understand. I think you need to try and find someone local to assist you with this project.

I concur with Pete, from what I see the 2nd pic is a DC jack charge point 5.5mm x 2.1mm or 2.5mm. The pin in the middle is V+ contact and the metal barrel inside is the V-, in side the Black wire you talk there are two thinner wires (one Red/one Black) the outer is just a pvc sheath. It isn't man enough for discharge and will be capable of about 4-7a max.

 

The kettle plug type is the discharge unless you aren't showing everything one has to use logic. The bike will be discharging some 20a plus I would say.

 

It's likely you are bypassing the BMS if the lipo/battery has one and reverse charging. You need to trace that jack plug (pic # 2) and find out exactly where the end goes, instead of guessing and taking chances.

Edited August 24, 20214 yr by Nealh

Your picturein post#1 clearly shows that the kettle socket is the discharge socket to power the bike and the 5.5mm jack socket is the charge socket. You should only charge through the 5.5mm one if you want to avoid an explosion and fire.

 

Whatever connector you have on the charger, you must change it to a 5.5mm jack. Bear in mind that the colours of charger wires are often the wrong way round, so always test with a meter after fitting a new connector and beefore inserting into the battery, otherwise you get a big bang.

Thanks guys, I was beginning to think I was typing in Chinese. I've worked on a couple of similar bikes recently and 1 a while back and they all seem to have shared charge/discharge ports with cheap 2 wire BMS's on the lithium packs. Because the OP has a Erider charger and the connector matches the discharge port on the battery, he can't understand that it's not correct.

No going mad Pete, it's hard sometimes making someone see sense. Some tbh shouldn't be playing with fire. The OP has no idea what has been done to the scooter except the battery isn't the usual one, that doesn't mean the seller either knew much of what they were doing.

I concur with Pete, from what I see the 2nd pic is a DC jack charge point 5.5mm x 2.1mm or 2.5mm. The pin in the middle is V+ contact and the metal barrel inside is the V-, in side the Black wire you talk there are two thinner wires (one Red/one Black) the outer is just a pvc sheath. It isn't man enough for discharge and will be capable of about 4-7a max.

 

The kettle plug type is the discharge unless you aren't showing everything one has to use logic. The bike will be discharging some 20a plus I would say.

 

It's likely you are bypassing the BMS if the lipo/battery has one and reverse charging. You need to trace that jack plug (pic # 2) and find out exactly where the end goes, instead of guessing and taking chances.

 

 

Hi yes just got home after dam walking moped back, I didn't go very far so not too far to push it home. its defo a wiring fault somewhere or loose wire. as when I was on way home. it kept like cutting out. go 2 yards stop etc. then I noticed on dash nothing at all. I have now just tested battery had to open up the case as it don't seem to test on 2 of those 3 pins, maybe that's the cause don't know. Hi yes I do apologies to wheeliepete there is 2 wires on that black lead. so are you saying I should be charging battery with a charger plugged into that DC jack charge point, as this seller told me that at 1st he was told the other charger he was using was for SLA batteries not Lithium, so he then bought this charger which has a 3 pin plug at end. so are you now saying I will need a charger what plugs into that DC jack one. to now charge up battery if so what one is it then. but the 3 pin is just what you plug in lead on moped battery compartment. so the charger I have uploaded images isn't the right one as it charges up battery ok. I do think there is maybe a BMS under all that grey tape over battery as you can see by image I have marked a black line around it what feels like a meter under grey tape. so this 3 pin end charger I have now what is that for then as its red when charging and green when batt is fully charged. I have also taking a picture of that key slot on right handle bar with some sort of meter above it. but I only have 1 key for bike. and it don't fit that. also at rear of back wheel I also saw this blue plastic tab thing lifted it open and there is another key slot but again no key I have a feeling that maybe an alarm. I will cut around that grey tape late on battery to see if that is the bms

Your picturein post#1 clearly shows that the kettle socket is the discharge socket to power the bike and the 5.5mm jack socket is the charge socket. You should only charge through the 5.5mm one if you want to avoid an explosion and fire.

 

Whatever connector you have on the charger, you must change it to a 5.5mm jack. Bear in mind that the colours of charger wires are often the wrong way round, so always test with a meter after fitting a new connector and beefore inserting into the battery, otherwise you get a big bang.

 

 

Dam the bloody seller was even charging it from that 3 pin kettle plug on charger. can you not get an adapter for that 3pin to a dc jack then or am I going to have to buy now another charger with a dc jack on end. so I take it the charger I have is fine but need a DC socket at end instead of that 3 pin kettle one or if not how many wires in that to solder to a dc jack one as I have soldering iron. as you can see it is the bms then under battery so is there a adapter what can plug into that 3pin plug and has a dc socket other end please. also I am going to have to take moped to a place where they check wiring

 

so is this charger I have ok now once I change the 3 pin kettle plug to a DC jack one can someone here help me to get right dc jack plug and is it 2 wires as on charger I know on the DC jack plug negative goes to the outer casing and positive red wire goes to inner according to my charger symbols. is it a male or female dc jack plug I think its prob female

Edited August 24, 20214 yr by billyboya

Dam the bloody seller was even charging it from that 3 pin kettle plug on charger.

That's probably the reason why the battery is not performing very well. Before going any further, you should check the battery and the charger.

 

Looking at the picture of the BMS, I can see P- on the left side where the thick black wires is fixed. You need to find B-, which is where the thick black wire from the cell-pack is attached to the BMS. That looks like it at the bottom right, but check the writing on the BMS. Using the B- as the ground for your black probe, check the voltage on each of the pins on the back of the multi-pin connector on the right side with your red probe. Be very careful not to let your probe touch two pins at the same time. Write down the voltage on each pin and post them here. Also, measure the voltage between the B- and anywhere where you can access the red wire or a pin attached to it.

 

After that, switch on the charger and measure the voltage between the outer two pins. The middle one isn't used for anything.

That's probably the reason why the battery is not performing very well. Before going any further, you should check the battery and the charger.

 

Looking at the picture of the BMS, I can see P- on the left side where the thick black wires is fixed. You need to find B-, which is where the thick black wire from the cell-pack is attached to the BMS. That looks like it at the bottom right, but check the writing on the BMS. Using the B- as the ground for your black probe, check the voltage on each of the pins on the back of the multi-pin connector on the right side with your red probe. Be very careful not to let your probe touch two pins at the same time. Write down the voltage on each pin and post them here. Also, measure the voltage between the B- and anywhere where you can access the red wire or a pin attached to it.

 

After that, switch on the charger and measure the voltage between the outer two pins. The middle one isn't used for anything.

Hi I really appreciate your help and also others here too. I’ve learnt loads. I will tear a bit more to show the bms connections you asked. You say switch on the charger and measure voltage between the 2 outta pins I take it you mean that kettle plug on charger . Can you just tell me what setting I put multimeter on to check that. Also what type of dc Jack do I fix to charger instead of that 3 pin plug. I know the neg is to go on outside pin on Jack plug and pos to the inner pin. And is my charger ok then, All I need to know then is which is neg and pos on charger wires

 

also what setting do I put multimeter on when checking pins electrics is my hobby but I’m not 100% at it yet but love to learn stuff

Edited August 24, 20214 yr by billyboya

Those jack plugs are very fiddily to solder esp. if the wire is quite thick like the wire on your charger. An easier option would be to leave the charger alone and connect a kettle socket to the wires on the battery. If you have some longer wire to hand you could put the socket under the seat. It would save you needing to remove the floor of the bike every time you want to charge the battery. Take care not to short the wires on the battery, cut, connect and insulate them one at a time and stagger the join. Cut one of these to length.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371524195086?epid=1271897509&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item568091530e:g:jHIAAOSwmtJXZUAl&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSafTQYbq3L7RBVAMi0K9cw70OmpxxMnm%252FHmfDYBePip2IEzGyrx0q7lCTYqOdUCZ%252FJJxukE870MoJ%252BGkM92S1zTOqGoYnfghbTCuR8q3EoQwWaHmeoU5taiZlC32F8qnLSrmgicQXZDp%252FWVSeuFH9CpKE5w6%252FA9ZF9694Q6eCy7qFQ8BlfeeQpockRkOefTvDzHPFisAIYhWB2Vo55Yt4uSeCe1wMgnpiuFy7EV1ABXgneII0GrCiRq7lh8dT4OHPON%252FgCBydpH11XPpOg0ByK1IMi2U9zvxT0T4ZUXy7m6%252BOcWT8NPH%252BOdUlSZ8QWNx5PebS8Bx8fDU9toE9e%252FLbCZSKGDvIMjceaZPz85qKUhYljywjRbMclWpUDsm4IuuZanVzeuHuF5jX0CJHN7JrL6w7DjHxeUwh0ZS3%252FzGYazXcc5ADNIQjpIlxY3YZGQwDLH%252FIBYNKVckIVuFCHxdXBcDKJGyClnSzFuVfmXPhvGFab%252F7VoP9L5vXo6PAwDkM%252F0%252BulHiK6wTFBwXVFdj81KxI18cTBsd%252BMMWJwCLB%252FUgO76kJrv1GdUs37325TYCMnHJHfbz0q6Nd1VBtUd9TL%252FHH2Sqxqfrt0lx5iZVPAtuRBRMqq23%252FrSRff4fjeF3mu80%252BUjjSDCOnMYpiihAVem7dmLy50MLLqGKOd9h2uafqMsQw1LZwT8J7XbfCio%252FKMhxerV8wr3xVKJNGg%252FS1ehKtJZ4yCnKImEpWoTr0Fq8%252Fq6%252FzwyJ7GBHdeRV5P2zVM%252BLWAyvk%252BqMBhfR8P30HSa98NpoTKa3djjhPsEZ2lOlfLkGGO%252Bt8goGrubwZjkJum%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524

Those jack plugs are very fiddily to solder esp. if the wire is quite thick like the wire on your charger. An easier option would be to leave the charger alone and connect a kettle socket to the wires on the battery. If you have some longer wire to hand you could put the socket under the seat. It would save you needing to remove the floor of the bike every time you want to charge the battery. Take care not to short the wires on the battery, cut, connect and insulate them one at a time and stagger the join. Cut one of these to length.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371524195086?epid=1271897509&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item568091530e:g:jHIAAOSwmtJXZUAl&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSafTQYbq3L7RBVAMi0K9cw70OmpxxMnm%252FHmfDYBePip2IEzGyrx0q7lCTYqOdUCZ%252FJJxukE870MoJ%252BGkM92S1zTOqGoYnfghbTCuR8q3EoQwWaHmeoU5taiZlC32F8qnLSrmgicQXZDp%252FWVSeuFH9CpKE5w6%252FA9ZF9694Q6eCy7qFQ8BlfeeQpockRkOefTvDzHPFisAIYhWB2Vo55Yt4uSeCe1wMgnpiuFy7EV1ABXgneII0GrCiRq7lh8dT4OHPON%252FgCBydpH11XPpOg0ByK1IMi2U9zvxT0T4ZUXy7m6%252BOcWT8NPH%252BOdUlSZ8QWNx5PebS8Bx8fDU9toE9e%252FLbCZSKGDvIMjceaZPz85qKUhYljywjRbMclWpUDsm4IuuZanVzeuHuF5jX0CJHN7JrL6w7DjHxeUwh0ZS3%252FzGYazXcc5ADNIQjpIlxY3YZGQwDLH%252FIBYNKVckIVuFCHxdXBcDKJGyClnSzFuVfmXPhvGFab%252F7VoP9L5vXo6PAwDkM%252F0%252BulHiK6wTFBwXVFdj81KxI18cTBsd%252BMMWJwCLB%252FUgO76kJrv1GdUs37325TYCMnHJHfbz0q6Nd1VBtUd9TL%252FHH2Sqxqfrt0lx5iZVPAtuRBRMqq23%252FrSRff4fjeF3mu80%252BUjjSDCOnMYpiihAVem7dmLy50MLLqGKOd9h2uafqMsQw1LZwT8J7XbfCio%252FKMhxerV8wr3xVKJNGg%252FS1ehKtJZ4yCnKImEpWoTr0Fq8%252Fq6%252FzwyJ7GBHdeRV5P2zVM%252BLWAyvk%252BqMBhfR8P30HSa98NpoTKa3djjhPsEZ2lOlfLkGGO%252Bt8goGrubwZjkJum%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524

 

Hi I thought the 3 pin socket was the discharge socket but now you say don’t put a DC Jack plug at end of charger they can’t be that hard to solder just 2 wires to the Jack plug. I don’t think the 2 wires on the charger are that thick. Also I live in a 1st story flat and have a shed on ground floor for moped so have to take battery up to flat to be charged can’t do it down stairs. So is my charger ok then once I solder a dc Jack plug

. So is my charger ok then once I solder a dc Jack plug

Yes.

Yes.

So what about what setting I put multimeter on to check those BMS PINS plus what setting to check charger pins

For BMS pins measuring each one against B- use the 20v setting it will give a more accurate reading like 3.86 as an an example. If you use the 200v setting it will simply read 3.9v as it will round up.

For the charger pins you will use 200v setting.

Hi I really appreciate your help and also others here too. I’ve learnt loads. I will tear a bit more to show the bms connections you asked. You say switch on the charger and measure voltage between the 2 outta pins I take it you mean that kettle plug on charger . Can you just tell me what setting I put multimeter on to check that. Also what type of dc Jack do I fix to charger instead of that 3 pin plug. I know the neg is to go on outside pin on Jack plug and pos to the inner pin. And is my charger ok then, All I need to know then is which is neg and pos on charger wires

 

also what setting do I put multimeter on when checking pins electrics is my hobby but I’m not 100% at it yet but love to learn stuff

You don't need to tear anything. You probe those pins on the back of the connector that you can see in the photo. I'd use the 200v DC setting for everything. That will be ccurate enough and saves messing about.

 

You need the matching jack that fits the socket, which is a standard 5.5mm jack that you can find on Ebay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402622991199?hash=item5dbe334b5f:g:-4kAAOSwDxdf5t07

For BMS pins measuring each one against B- use the 20v setting it will give a more accurate reading like 3.86 as an an example. If you use the 200v setting it will simply read 3.9v as it will round up.

For the charger pins you will use 200v setting.

 

its so awkward to measure BMS pins using B- and I set it to 20v setting as in image below I have now just tried 2 pins and all they read is 1 . but if I turn multimeter dial to the V 200 mark and then check pins

 

1st = 52V 2nd= 48V 3rd= 44V 4th=40V 5th=36V 6th=32V 7th=28V 8th=24V 9th=20V 10th=16V 11th=12V

12th=8V 13th=4V and last 14th had no reading

 

it was so dam hard to test those pins as cant hardly see them had to wear a pair of magnifying glasses. trouble is the prob seems bigger than the pins so was very careful

Edited August 25, 20214 yr by billyboya

You don't need to tear anything. You probe those pins on the back of the connector that you can see in the photo. I'd use the 200v DC setting for everything. That will be ccurate enough and saves messing about.

 

You need the matching jack that fits the socket, which is a standard 5.5mm jack that you can find on Ebay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402622991199?hash=item5dbe334b5f:g:-4kAAOSwDxdf5t07

 

 

so these in ebay link are what I need to fit the socket and how do I tell on charger which is neg wire and pos wire or will they be red black when I strip outer case off if so then I know red is pos and is this in image the correct dial on meter to test

 

Yes I think that dial on meter is right setting to test charger lead I just tried and it says 118.8V

That's the setting for AC volts. You measure the charger with the same 200v setting as you used to measure the battery, which is the 200v at the 11 o'clock position. We need the decimal from this measurement.

 

The battery measurements show that it's nicely balanced. The 200v scale should give a decimal, like 4.1, 8.2, etc. Did you leave that off when you wrote down the numbers, because it's needed.

 

The reason the 20v scale won't work is that it only goes up to 20v, so can't show anything higher, and most of those pins are above that.

its so awkward to measure BMS pins using B- and I set it to 20v setting as in image below I have now just tried 2 pins and all they read is 1 . but if I turn multimeter dial to the V 200 mark and then check pins

 

1st = 52V 2nd= 48V 3rd= 44V 4th=40V 5th=36V 6th=32V 7th=28V 8th=24V 9th=20V 10th=16V 11th=12V

12th=8V 13th=4V and last 14th had no reading

 

it was so dam hard to test those pins as cant hardly see them had to wear a pair of magnifying glasses. trouble is the prob seems bigger than the pins so was very careful

 

Not correct, wrong scale.

One can use vfr's way or if you want three figure readings in the 3 or 4.xx way follow the route below.

 

One can also measure differently so that yo get 13 individual readings in the single range of up to 4.20v each which will give a better accurate reading of each group using the 20v setting.

You will need a couple of needles to help and ideally insulate all but the two ends so as not to cause a short (once done bend them slightly).

 

Cell group #1 (Cg#1) On the White multi wire sense connector disconnected from the BMS, place one needle in the Black pin out and the other in the first White pin out. Place probes with Red probe always on the second needle away from Black wire on the ends and see a single number voltage cell count in three figures like 3.98v or 4.05v etc ,etc.

 

Cg#2 , move the 2nd needle along one to the next White wire pin out, then move the other needle in to the position it vacated. Again probe the needles to get the single three figure voltage reading.

 

Cg#3, repeat as for Cg#2 until you have done this 13 times to get 13 single cell voltage readings, the last reading the needle will end up in the Red pin out and in the one proceeding it.

 

Each White wire x 12 are cell group positives when using the main B- direct off the battery pack and the last thin Red wire is positive for the cell group #13.

 

Taking readings in the way I mention by starting with the B0/B1 off the sense wire block each White pin out proceeding the next one acts as the negative as the pins are moved along in pairs as I have mentioned, the pin outs equate to 13 paired moves for the 13 cell voltage readings.

Edited August 25, 20214 yr by Nealh

its so awkward to measure BMS pins using B- and I set it to 20v setting as in image below I have now just tried 2 pins and all they read is 1 . but if I turn multimeter dial to the V 200 mark and then check pins

 

1st = 52V 2nd= 48V 3rd= 44V 4th=40V 5th=36V 6th=32V 7th=28V 8th=24V 9th=20V 10th=16V 11th=12V

12th=8V 13th=4V and last 14th had no reading

 

it was so dam hard to test those pins as cant hardly see them had to wear a pair of magnifying glasses. trouble is the prob seems bigger than the pins so was very careful

 

Move the dial in the pic one click to the right to 200v and not all the way to 200v AC past the 12 o'clock position.