Hey everyone,

 

Thanks for having me in the group. I'm looking to purchase my first ebike or kit for commuting. Previously I was commuting about 15 miles each to my place of work either on a carbon framed racer I built, or driving. The location of my work has now changed, and is now closer to 22 miles. Driving is now out of the question as the traffic is awful and petrol is sooo expensive... trains are also expensive and infrequent - so I'm looking for another solution!

 

Anyone commuting that kind of distance on an ebike? I'm totally new to this kind of vehicle, but have a had a little nosey around - from what I have read so far I'm thinking a kit would be the way to go. I'm not shy of a bit of DIY having built numerous bikes and restored a few old cars. Any pointers would be much appreciated! Budget is tight as I'm a yorkshireman , but I have a nice Whyte portabello hybrid that I'm thinking I would use as the base.

 

Alvin

That's quite a commute even by ebike. If you keep it a legal pedelec it will only be offering assist to 15mph, so around 1 1/2 hours unless you give lots of help. If the traffic is awful that doesn't sound much fun on any bike.

 

Unless it is very hilly, a rear hub conversion would probably be best for that commute.

 

An s-pedelec with more power and speed will be more appropriate; but to keep it legal comes with need for registration, plates, insurance etc. They can be difficult to find, and also difficult and expensive to insure as they are a currently a niche market that insurers don't understand.

 

If you convert to s-pedelec (speedier and more powerful motor) you will need some extra safety registration of the individual bike to keep it legal; others here can give more details on that.

 

Sadly, all that means a scooter or light motor bike may be a better bet.

Ah that's a bit disappointing... I might rent a pedelec to trial it out. The commute to the new place took me 1 hour 50 ish when I tried it on my racer - there's a long low gradient hill that always slows me down to about 7/8mph - if I could up the speed to 15mph up there I'd be interested to see what the time was. Average speed was about 11mph with a max of 24mph.

 

The awful traffic was mainly the M25, which I'll probably try and avoid if I'm pedalling

i bike with a dongle will do it but the batt wont have much left after 22 miles so you would need to charge it for the return home or use 2 500w batts.

 

depending how fast i spin the cranks i can get about 25 miles from my 500w bosch batt.

i bike with a dongle will do it but the batt wont have much left after 22 miles so you would need to charge it for the return home or use 2 500w batts.

 

depending how fast i spin the cranks i can get about 25 miles from my 500w bosch batt.

 

Do you run a dongle? Yes I'd probably charge at work or buy a second battery

yes i have had a dongle on it since 2014 and is geared to go 40mph on the flat so destroys any race bike

My brother very rarely posts on here but he did ride a 20 mile odd each way route in to the Surrey Hills on a Bosch dongled bike and a Shimano Willer dongled bike but only a couple of times a week on nicer days. It is doable and think his travel time was about 70 odd mins each way.

On the crappy days he would use petrol scooter or car.

Athere's a long low gradient hill that always slows me down to about 7/8mph - if I could up the speed to 15mph up there I'd be interested to see what the time was.

A regular pedelec will help on that hill, should mean you can do it at 15mph; and with work from you on the rest you may average 15mph or even a tad over.

 

Technically a dongled bike is an s-pedelec with all the complications that brings. As long as you ride responsibly the chances of being caught a tiny, and of being prosecuted even less. Main risk is if you are involved in an accident, in which case the police or the other parties insurers may look very closely.

Also, the dongled bile SW is referring to is a Bosch powered crank drive.

Two things here, this means more drive train wear giving more regular maintenence (chain and cog replacements), also, if anything goes wrong with the motor or control system, it is not user repairable. Bosch operate a locked system.

Your original thought of a rear hub kit circumvents both these issues, giving you a reliable system that, should anything go wrong, you know your way around and generic parts are easily available.

As you seem a practcal kinda bloke, I'd say go that way.

I run a front hub with two parralleled batteries, giving an approximate capacity of 28Ah, (Not for commutting but for Welsh hills).

Whilst the bike is very heavy this does give a large, on the flat, range with less strain on each battery, so extending their life.

One battery is rack mounted the other is in a pannier.

This would allow you higher power settings used over extended periods helping to up your average speed.

So my pal is a bike mechanic and he has found me the following... Whoosh rear hub kit,MXUS XF08C, 45Nm motor. 36v, 15Ah yielding 540Wh with Samsung cells - what do you reckon?

It's Woosh, but yes, highly recommended as a supplier.

That XF08C is very similar to the XF07 (front wheel) we have on our tandem (from Woosh). It's a bit underpowered for the tandem but should be good for your commute. You might prefer to pay a little more for the SWX02-48V. Ask Woosh's advice; they want to sell you the right kit.

 

It should (just) get you to work and back on a charge on middle assistance settings, but if it were me I'd be happier to charge it at work. You may be tired on the way home and want to use a bit more assistance.

Hey everyone... I missed out on the woosh kit unfortunately - however I found a 2020 carrera subway e with very few miles on it (less than 99 charge cycles, battery showing 80% + capacity) and perfect condition (the tyres and brakes look pretty much new) for £250. I don't know if I'll keep it as those bikes don't seem to have a great reputation - but I'm going to trial it out tomorrow. Can always sell for a decent profit if not. I've also been offered a second battery for a reasonable price, so maybe for now this is my budget solution and I'll build a proper bike when I've decided if it's a viable commuting solution or not. Thanks for the help everyone!

less than 99 charge cycles, battery showing 80% + capacity

 

How do you know for certain that it's had less than 99 charge cycles? I don't know much about ebike batteries, but 20%-ish loss of capacity seems like a lot for 99.

Edited September 12, 20223 yr by guerney

How do you know for certain that it's had less than 99 charge cycles? I don't know much about ebike batteries, but 20%-ish loss of capacity seems like a lot for 99.

 

So it's between 80% and 100%... the battery display only gives you figure accurate to 20%

So I trailed the commute today... I was worried the battery wouldn't last, but still had two bars on the display by the time I got to work. Fully loaded with pannier bag etc - also wasn't quite sure of the way so had to stop a couple of times. I reckon I can get it down to 1 hour 15... but I don't think the 15.5 mph restriction is doing it for me - and the careera feels sooooo heavy. Trying to maintain speed above that is hard work. I think I'll end up selling, buy a kit and build something lighter.

So I trailed the commute today... I was worried the battery wouldn't last, but still had two bars on the display by the time I got to work. Fully loaded with pannier bag etc - also wasn't quite sure of the way so had to stop a couple of times. I reckon I can get it down to 1 hour 15... but I don't think the 15.5 mph restriction is doing it for me - and the careera feels sooooo heavy. Trying to maintain speed above that is hard work. I think I'll end up selling, buy a kit and build something lighter.

 

Sounds like you want a lightweight road bike but perhaps with a small hub motor to help with the hills. Perhaps something with a 200-300Wh battery and a 45Nm front or rear geared hub motor. Yose kit or similar.

What about an E-moped ?

 

I'd avoid like the plague any that dont have a history of making standard mopeds as there are a great deal importing crud into the UK, so they're usually racked with problems and faults.

 

Something like Piaggio would be much better.

£2350

https://www.piaggio.com/gb_EN/models/piaggio-1/piaggio-1-1-2-kw-2021/

Ebikes are horribly expensive, and i've even go so far to say they are completely overpriced. For the same money as above you'll get an ebike thats built using pretty much the bottom of the range componentry, which in truth are not up to the job and have next to no longevity.

 

I could have bought two of these for what I paid for my Ebike, and still have funds left over for a good quality lid plus accessories.

Sounds like you want a lightweight road bike but perhaps with a small hub motor to help with the hills. Perhaps something with a 200-300Wh battery and a 45Nm front or rear geared hub motor. Yose kit or similar.

 

This sounds like a good shout... I think I'm going to get rid of everything I have now (the carrera, my carbon racer, my hybrid) and put all the money into buying a nice light CX frameset and a kit to go with it. I could just convert my road bike, but the 700 25c tyres are as wide as I can go on there and I think I'd like to go a little wider for comfort.

 

Is this the kit you mean? https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit-with-battery/products/e-bike-conversion-kit-36v-250w-rear-motor-kit-for-freewheel-with-36v13ah-battery-and-charger

Hmmmm or maybe I might try fitting a kit to my road bike and stick a CX fork on the front - try running 28 on the back and 32 on the front. Also, are the yose kits dongleable?

Main risk is if you are involved in an accident, in which case the police or the other parties insurers may look very closely.

 

They could do.

 

And I wonder what impact it would have on a drivers future insurance premiums if they had a conviction for using a vehicle (dongled eBike ?) on the road without insurance ?

 

I do pay for 3rd party liability insurance for my eBike since I do like\need the house I own, dont want to loose it if I was sued for damages as a result of an 'accident'.

The Yosepower kit would do you. My only reservation would be the controller built into the battery, also it's make is not one I've heard of. Could possibly be an OEM one which might be hard to source in the future if needed, others may clarify.

Otherwise looks to be a kit that will be plug and play and get you going.

It WON'T be dongleable as this applies to proprietry mid drives only and would immeadiately make it illegal anyway.

There may be vectors within the controller which will allow terminal speed adjustment. However if the winding code of the motor is correct for the wheel size then this will limit maximum rpm by the laws of physics.

The 6kph limit on the throttle may be adjustable to allow hill starts, wrong gear starts and quicker traffic junction pull aways. Depends on the controller/display functions.

 

Yosepower are now supplying to the UK from a UK wharehouse. I've used them in the past and, when I did have a problem with a battery, they replaced it no hassle.

This sounds like a good shout... I think I'm going to get rid of everything I have now (the carrera, my carbon racer, my hybrid) and put all the money into buying a nice light CX frameset and a kit to go with it. I could just convert my road bike, but the 700 25c tyres are as wide as I can go on there and I think I'd like to go a little wider for comfort.

 

Is this the kit you mean? https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit-with-battery/products/e-bike-conversion-kit-36v-250w-rear-motor-kit-for-freewheel-with-36v13ah-battery-and-charger

 

I was thinking something more like this so you have a freehub on the hub motor for cassettes rather than a freewheel. Then perhaps choose your own third party battery, maybe a lower capacity smaller battery that could go in a saddle bag. You can get some physically small batteries using the latest high quality cells.

 

https://yosepower.com/collections/uk-shipping/products/36v-350w-26-27-5-28-rear-motor-kit-for-cassette?variant=39530625335431

 

Note that this is a 350W kit and slightly faster than the legal limit and its whether you want to take the risk but to be honest such a kit would be very minimal visually and I'm sure wouldn't be perceived as a over powered ebike. The battery would be near enough invisible in a saddle bag and the motor would be hidden behind the cassette. You would be dropping a lot of people who may not even be aware you are on an ebike.

 

As for the best donor bike perhaps something like a Claris based gravel bike but its really down to how much you want to spend on the bike and how strong you need it. If I was buying I'd probably go for something like a Voodoo Limba or similar.

 

I did notice this on hotukdeals.

 

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/bike-seat-post-rack-25kg-quick-release-3996322

 

Sort of rack that you could mount the controller and a small battery underneath and still make use of the rack on top for carrying stuff.

I was thinking something more like this so you have a freehub on the hub motor for cassettes rather than a freewheel. Then perhaps choose your own third party battery, maybe a lower capacity smaller battery that could go in a saddle bag. You can get some physically small batteries using the latest high quality cells.

 

https://yosepower.com/collections/uk-shipping/products/36v-350w-26-27-5-28-rear-motor-kit-for-cassette?variant=39530625335431

 

Note that this is a 350W kit and slightly faster than the legal limit and its whether you want to take the risk but to be honest such a kit would be very minimal visually and I'm sure wouldn't be perceived as a over powered ebike. The battery would be near enough invisible in a saddle bag and the motor would be hidden behind the cassette. You would be dropping a lot of people who may not even be aware you are on an ebike.

 

As for the best donor bike perhaps something like a Claris based gravel bike but its really down to how much you want to spend on the bike and how strong you need it. If I was buying I'd probably go for something like a Voodoo Limba or similar.

 

I did notice this on hotukdeals.

 

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/bike-seat-post-rack-25kg-quick-release-3996322

 

Sort of rack that you could mount the controller and a small battery underneath and still make use of the rack on top for carrying stuff.

 

Thanks! This is great information... looking at the Claris and the Voodoo, I don't know much about gravel bikes but they're so heavy! Makes me inclined to use my road bike as a base as that weighs about 8.5kg. Plus the kit should have the bike weighing in at around 14/15kg (I think?!) - a saving of 4kg on the current Carrera I have, which would hopefully allow me to get my foot down a bit on the flat sections/downhill. I wouldn't need the bike to be super strong - I weigh 72kg

Thanks! This is great information... looking at the Claris and the Voodoo, I don't know much about gravel bikes but they're so heavy! Makes me inclined to use my road bike as a base as that weighs about 8.5kg. Plus the kit should have the bike weighing in at around 14/15kg (I think?!) - a saving of 4kg on the current Carrera I have, which would hopefully allow me to get my foot down a bit on the flat sections/downhill. I wouldn't need the bike to be super strong - I weigh 72kg

 

At 72kg you probably don't need a particularly strong bike even with ebike components added. The only issues are comfort and punctures really if you are limited on tyre size and doing a lot of commuting then it could be an issue. Remember the hub motor peaks at about 48Nm and the average person produces between 20-50Nm sustained force depending on age and fitness. There will be a lot more power driving the rear wheel, the frame will get a harder time of it. Is your current bike suitable for conversion with regard the gears. It has a standard freehub for up to a 10 speed cassette I think so not compatible with 11 or 12 speed if your current bike has that. Also what about brakes the kits typically come with brake levers compatible with V brakes and mechanical disc brakes but you don't have to use them. If you use throttle control only then you just use the throttle when you need it so no need for brake levers with cut offs and if you are using the pedelec system with the supplied cadence sensor you need to factor in even if you stop pedalling there is a small delay before the assistance stops where as the brake levers with cut off are faster. Lets be realistic though if you are mainly cycling under your own power and using the motor mainly for hills I personally don't see the need for brake levers with cut offs.

 

I feel the weight of the bike is far less of an issue with an ebike, your just as fast if not faster going downhill, you might take longer to build up speed on the flats but momentum is better and for the hills who cares as the motor is doing a lot of the work. The benefits of a gravel bike are superior braking, superior grip (wider tyres), superior strength, superior comfort (wider tyres), more abuse-able. You'll also have more options where you can ride including rougher ground, shortcuts etc. However obviously there is a small weight penalty.

At 72kg you probably don't need a particularly strong bike even with ebike components added. The only issues are comfort and punctures really if you are limited on tyre size and doing a lot of commuting then it could be an issue. Remember the hub motor peaks at about 48Nm and the average person produces between 20-50Nm sustained force depending on age and fitness. There will be a lot more power driving the rear wheel, the frame will get a harder time of it. Is your current bike suitable for conversion with regard the gears. It has a standard freehub for up to a 10 speed cassette I think so not compatible with 11 or 12 speed if your current bike has that.

 

It's only 8 speed cassette, so wouldn't be an issue... It's this one https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/road-bikes/bh-speedrom-105-l51-review/ but fitted with a 16 speed set up. I think I'm happy to sacrifice comfort for speed.

 

 

Also what about brakes the kits typically come with brake levers compatible with V brakes and mechanical disc brakes but you don't have to use them. If you use throttle control only then you just use the throttle when you need it so no need for brake levers with cut offs and if you are using the pedelec system with the supplied cadence sensor you need to factor in even if you stop pedalling there is a small delay before the assistance stops where as the brake levers with cut off are faster. Lets be realistic though if you are mainly cycling under your own power and using the motor mainly for hills I personally don't see the need for brake levers with cut offs.

 

 

I think yes, mainly I'll be propelling the bike and just to deal with the climbs more quickly I'll use the assistance. I had a brief look into cut off sensors though and believe you can add them to brifters (?). I'll have to have a thorough look through the forum for some "how to's"

 

 

I feel the weight of the bike is far less of an issue with an ebike, your just as fast if not faster going downhill, you might take longer to build up speed on the flats but momentum is better and for the hills who cares as the motor is doing a lot of the work. The benefits of a gravel bike are superior braking, superior grip (wider tyres), superior strength, superior comfort (wider tyres), more abuse-able. You'll also have more options where you can ride including rougher ground, shortcuts etc. However obviously there is a small weight penalty.

 

Thanks so much for this advice... I think you're right. A gravel bike seems to be the way to go - I'm thinking of getting something like this and building it to spec... though the cheapskate in me just wants to use the roadbike I have.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144713145025?_trkparms=ni_actn%3Anav%7Cni_nt%3AWATCH_ITEM_ENDING_SOON%7Cni_apos%3A2%7Cni_sg%3A1%7Cni_pos%3A2%7Cni_st%3AREAD%7Cni_wh%3A1%7Cni_nid%3A617741352691%7Cni_nsid%3A144713145025%7Cni_et%3A1663525910000%7Cni_bn%3A1&_trksid=p2380424.m570.l5997