Hi folks well i will keep my throttle regardless of whatever law they may throw at us my e-bike was purchased to assist my ongoing battle with the bulge plus bad knees and chronic asthma my point being that when I'm on the verge of collapse that old throttle gets me home i would suspect that I'm not alone in my reasons for using an e-bike .........by the by thanks for a wicked FORUM ttfn for now from a wheezy old geezer
Change in e-bike legislation
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Does flecc mean by the undernoted that a pedal cycle converted to an EAPC requires single vehicle approval?
E-bikes are exempted from motor vehicle legislation if they comply with the law on e-bike construction, and a home built one should be submitted for motorcycle single vehicle type approval so that the inspector can verify it qualifies and is exempt from registration etc. Single SVA includes amateur built vehicles. If it passes, the builder (you) can append the plate to meet the requirements. It's not clear what the fee would be, but it will probably be that same as for the low powered moped class, £55, since that is also a pedal equipped type limited to 15 mph, but with higher motor power limit.
There must be thousands of kit-converted EAPCs in the UK without such certificates, and none of the kit sellers suggest that an SVA is required. Nor can I find any mention of EAPC, here:
What is the Single Vehicle Approval scheme? : Directgov - Motoring
E-bikes are exempted from motor vehicle legislation if they comply with the law on e-bike construction, and a home built one should be submitted for motorcycle single vehicle type approval so that the inspector can verify it qualifies and is exempt from registration etc. Single SVA includes amateur built vehicles. If it passes, the builder (you) can append the plate to meet the requirements. It's not clear what the fee would be, but it will probably be that same as for the low powered moped class, £55, since that is also a pedal equipped type limited to 15 mph, but with higher motor power limit.
There must be thousands of kit-converted EAPCs in the UK without such certificates, and none of the kit sellers suggest that an SVA is required. Nor can I find any mention of EAPC, here:
What is the Single Vehicle Approval scheme? : Directgov - Motoring
No, it's not required by law, and I certainly wouldn't bother. If plating was being enforced I'd plate my home build e-bike myself.
However, for me and for all who build a special, that is then open to challenge from the police and that could result in an expensive court case with a need for inspections and professional witnesses.
Anyone wishing to avoid that potential problem will need to get official approval of their home build and it's plating, and the only body responsible for this kind if testing is the SVA, despite there being no existing procedure for this. Obviously presenting an e-bike for testing would cause head scratching and possibly the constructor advised to go away in the hope of the problem disappearing or being left for someone else to deal with.
The best approach would be at the outset of a home build project to write to ones nearest SVA test centre advising ones intention to present an e-bike for inspection to verify it's exemption status. The letter could with advantage be copied to the DfT and marked thus, to keep them in the loop. That will hopefully trigger action to institute a procedure for e-bike verification. The e-bike could then be safely used on the basis that it conformed to the law and that official verification had been sought. Since that last step is not a requirement, there should be no problems and any police action is much less likely in such an instance of obvious good intentions.
Basically all three of the following states are legal, but each step in turn lessens the likelyhood of possible challenge further:
1) E-bike constructed and plated and then used.
2) E-bike constructed and plated, exemption test applied for from the SVA and the bike used meanwhile.
3) E-bike constructed and plated, exemption test applied for and bike not used until after the test and subsequent approval.
.
Thanks, flecc, for confirmation that the plate can be home-made, though the piece of dymotape with the voltage and wattage stated on it which I stuck to my first ebike may not quite amount to a "plate".
However, I doubt if there would be any legal (civil or criminal) challenge to the contents of the "plate" attached to an ebike if what it states is confirmed by the manufacturers of the motor and the battery (the wattage is labelled on the Suzhou-Bafang motor, and the voltage is likewise stated on the battery).
I have also been looking at the "factsheet" issued by DoF in 2005 in which they try to explain and excuse their failure to integrate the UK regulations with those from the EU:
I have always felt that that statement confuses two things: what is legal for importers, wholesalers, retailers, to sell, and what is legal for a cyclist to ride on the road. My feeling is that the one-off self-built ebike, not passing through any commercial process (after the parts have been bought and assembled by the cyclist), cannot be subject to any type approval legislation or, lacking it, attract the attention of trading standards departments, there being no "trading" involved in the "supply" with the completed privately built ebike, prior to, and after, its emergence on the road.
However, I doubt if there would be any legal (civil or criminal) challenge to the contents of the "plate" attached to an ebike if what it states is confirmed by the manufacturers of the motor and the battery (the wattage is labelled on the Suzhou-Bafang motor, and the voltage is likewise stated on the battery).
I have also been looking at the "factsheet" issued by DoF in 2005 in which they try to explain and excuse their failure to integrate the UK regulations with those from the EU:
2.3 Low powered mopeds
The Directive includes within its scope low powered mopeds that may also be similar in definition to
EAPCs. These are vehicles with pedals and fitted with an auxiliary electric motor having a continuously
rated power output not greater than 1.0kW, capable of speeds not exceeding 25km/h.
However, there are certain vehicles in this category which may be regarded as EAPCs and are exempt
from both ECWVTA and MSVA. These are cycles with pedal assistance and an electric motor having a
maximum continuous rated power output of not more than 250W, and where the electrical assistance is
cut off when the machine reaches a speed of 25km/h or where the cyclist stops pedalling. The exemption
applies to two, three and four wheeled vehicles. Exempt EAPCs do not need a CoC or a MAC.
2.4 Power assistance
A vehicle is not exempt from ECWVTA or MSVA if it is fitted with pedals and a motor that can provide
power assistance at any time without the rider pedalling see also section 3 below.
However, if such vehicle i.e. one which is able to provide power assistance without the rider pedalling‚ is
an EAPC, our understanding is that the appropriate authorities i.e. Trading Standards‚ are unlikely to take
action to prevent the sale of these vehicles simply on the ground that they have neither a CoC nor MAC.
But they must conform to the appropriate safety and construction and use Regulations/Directives cited in
this fact sheet. Nevertheless, if you are a dealer intending to supply such vehicles elsewhere in the
European Community or the European Economic Area, it may be advisable to consider obtaining
ECWVTA.
The Directive includes within its scope low powered mopeds that may also be similar in definition to
EAPCs. These are vehicles with pedals and fitted with an auxiliary electric motor having a continuously
rated power output not greater than 1.0kW, capable of speeds not exceeding 25km/h.
However, there are certain vehicles in this category which may be regarded as EAPCs and are exempt
from both ECWVTA and MSVA. These are cycles with pedal assistance and an electric motor having a
maximum continuous rated power output of not more than 250W, and where the electrical assistance is
cut off when the machine reaches a speed of 25km/h or where the cyclist stops pedalling. The exemption
applies to two, three and four wheeled vehicles. Exempt EAPCs do not need a CoC or a MAC.
2.4 Power assistance
A vehicle is not exempt from ECWVTA or MSVA if it is fitted with pedals and a motor that can provide
power assistance at any time without the rider pedalling see also section 3 below.
However, if such vehicle i.e. one which is able to provide power assistance without the rider pedalling‚ is
an EAPC, our understanding is that the appropriate authorities i.e. Trading Standards‚ are unlikely to take
action to prevent the sale of these vehicles simply on the ground that they have neither a CoC nor MAC.
But they must conform to the appropriate safety and construction and use Regulations/Directives cited in
this fact sheet. Nevertheless, if you are a dealer intending to supply such vehicles elsewhere in the
European Community or the European Economic Area, it may be advisable to consider obtaining
ECWVTA.
I have always felt that that statement confuses two things: what is legal for importers, wholesalers, retailers, to sell, and what is legal for a cyclist to ride on the road. My feeling is that the one-off self-built ebike, not passing through any commercial process (after the parts have been bought and assembled by the cyclist), cannot be subject to any type approval legislation or, lacking it, attract the attention of trading standards departments, there being no "trading" involved in the "supply" with the completed privately built ebike, prior to, and after, its emergence on the road.
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What a mess! I find it amusing that the legislators of this country have "managed" to write something so ridiculously ambiguous that even they don't understand it's implications, to the point where they're saying, in effect, 'as long as we don't notice, we won't care' 
No wonder they want to hand the reponsibility to Brussels, as it would need a completely re-written act of parliament to sort it out localy. It's probably not deemed an important enough question (or large enough market), to warrant such lofty attention and expense. Hey-ho, I suppose we should be glad to be so far under the radar, and likely to remain so. Does anyone else get the feeling that this is nothing more than somebody at the DFT's pet project that they're doing in their spare time, as they've just bought a Kalkhoff?
No wonder they want to hand the reponsibility to Brussels, as it would need a completely re-written act of parliament to sort it out localy. It's probably not deemed an important enough question (or large enough market), to warrant such lofty attention and expense. Hey-ho, I suppose we should be glad to be so far under the radar, and likely to remain so. Does anyone else get the feeling that this is nothing more than somebody at the DFT's pet project that they're doing in their spare time, as they've just bought a Kalkhoff? 
Throttle
In BEBA's response to the DfT's consultation document, we have made a case for the throttle to be kept in the UK. Although I hold little hope that it will.
Wisper bikes sold in main land Europe conforming to the EU regs still sport a throttle which can only be activated (over 4mph) when the pedals are turning. What IMO is crazy, is as we use a cadence rather than a torque sensor the rider does not have to be adding any power input to the bike for the throttle to be activated. If the law changes to "no throttle" in the UK we will certainly continue to offer this set up.
All the best
David
In BEBA's response to the DfT's consultation document, we have made a case for the throttle to be kept in the UK. Although I hold little hope that it will.
Wisper bikes sold in main land Europe conforming to the EU regs still sport a throttle which can only be activated (over 4mph) when the pedals are turning. What IMO is crazy, is as we use a cadence rather than a torque sensor the rider does not have to be adding any power input to the bike for the throttle to be activated. If the law changes to "no throttle" in the UK we will certainly continue to offer this set up.
All the best
David
"a throttle which can only be activated (over 4mph) when the pedals are turning"
That is certainly attractive, and would be worth aiming for in the new UK regulations. I frequently use the throttle combined with pedalling, especially in traffic and going up hills, to keep my speed nearer to that of surrounding motor traffic, something I cannot do, or achieve so quickly, in pedelec-only mode.
Also, if the throttle still works without pedalling up to 4 mph, and then can still be used with pedalling above that speed, I, and others, will still be able to make that quick getaway from the lights (0 to 15 mph in the few seconds it takes to cross the junction!) and exit into a safe position in the traffic stream on the other side.
That is certainly attractive, and would be worth aiming for in the new UK regulations. I frequently use the throttle combined with pedalling, especially in traffic and going up hills, to keep my speed nearer to that of surrounding motor traffic, something I cannot do, or achieve so quickly, in pedelec-only mode.
Also, if the throttle still works without pedalling up to 4 mph, and then can still be used with pedalling above that speed, I, and others, will still be able to make that quick getaway from the lights (0 to 15 mph in the few seconds it takes to cross the junction!) and exit into a safe position in the traffic stream on the other side.
I think that is the underlying illogical nature of legislation that says that some motorised vehicles are not actually motor vehicles showing through. E-bikes only get such an easy ride because they are so similar to pushbikes that they can squeeze into the precedents set by them (by the way, if pushbikes were invented today would they be allowed on the roads?) but "similar to" is a bit of a vague basis for legislation.
I agree that legislation that insists on token pedaling is crazy. There are two ways of resolving it: one is to allow the motors to power the bikes on their own (which would normally be controlled with a throttle) the other would be to insist on the rider having to put in a minimum amount of effort (as they do in Japan). This choice is arbitrary, and I suspect that there are lobbies pushing for both options.
So the insistence on token pedaling is a compromise between two arbitrary options, and compromises are inherently crazy.
Patrick
Objections
If anyone does, please make sure that the objection to removing the throttle is made on grounds of safety and/or to enable an electric bike to be used by people who would have difficulty pedalling normally.
All the best
David
If anyone does, please make sure that the objection to removing the throttle is made on grounds of safety and/or to enable an electric bike to be used by people who would have difficulty pedalling normally.
All the best
David
Hi Roel
This, basically is what the EU regs require. So it's not all bad!
Best regards
David
Seems like the way to go for me is a second motor (throttle controlled of course) to turn the pedals for me, with some cruiser style footboards to rest my poor legs.
By Jove, he's got it!Seems like the way to go for me is a second motor (throttle controlled of course) to turn the pedals for me, with some cruiser style footboards to rest my poor legs.
All the best
David
I bet within days of this becoming law there will be simple work arounds published on this very site.
I suspect we're all getting our knickers in a twist over nothing. Has anyone ever been stopped and had their bike examined to make sure it conforms to current regs. I asked a police pal of mine what the regs where and he didnt have a clue. Of course if you're wizzing past the police station on the pavement at 30 mph with your feet up on the cross bar riding a 1000w alien kitted bike I guess you may get your collar felt but for most us that doesnt apply.
Stumpi
thats actually what i said.
Take ebikers as a percentage of cyclists, now take the percentage of those that blatently break the road rules and get caught by the police.
Now from this very tiny percentage the high likihood is that they jumped a red light, don't have proper lights etc.. not that they were going too fast (which we already know doesn't actually apply)
So all up its a pretty dumb item to remove the throttle for just the basic reason its nearly impossible to police.
My bike sticks out like a sore thumb with its bike motor on the frame. You get a hub motor on the back wheel and most people wouldn't even know its an ebike.
I could rant all day, but i have just spend 2 hours filling in that form on the website. grrrrr
I was going to point out their failure with the broadband rollout to show how out of touch they actually are, and how good they are at wasting everyones time and money but i thought that might be a step too far.
Take ebikers as a percentage of cyclists, now take the percentage of those that blatently break the road rules and get caught by the police.
Now from this very tiny percentage the high likihood is that they jumped a red light, don't have proper lights etc.. not that they were going too fast (which we already know doesn't actually apply)
So all up its a pretty dumb item to remove the throttle for just the basic reason its nearly impossible to police.
My bike sticks out like a sore thumb with its bike motor on the frame. You get a hub motor on the back wheel and most people wouldn't even know its an ebike.
I could rant all day, but i have just spend 2 hours filling in that form on the website. grrrrr
I was going to point out their failure with the broadband rollout to show how out of touch they actually are, and how good they are at wasting everyones time and money but i thought that might be a step too far.
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They don't now because the regulations in the UK are from 1983 when there were effectively no e-bikes on the road. So there's little police awareness and no apparent problem at present, but the thread is discussing the situation under the impending regulations.
When the amended law is published and traffic police divisions are notified of it, that coupled with the fact there are tens of thousands of e-bikes on the road could make quite a difference to the attention paid to them.
If the plating is insisted upon by the new regulations, that is likely to strike a chord with the police who are already in a plate checking mode with number plates and VIN plates, an e-bike plate being a handy inspection start point for them if they see a rider commiting a minor breach of road use regulations.
As for workarounds being published in here, any breach of e-bike regulations meaning the e-bike becomes a motor vehicle has very serious consequences for holders of driving licences, which is probably the majority of us. Using a motor vehicle without third party insurance is frequently a licence losing offence.
.
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You're right in principle but in practice I really don't see it working like that. There are still so few of us on the road the police have other priorities. I have yet to see another ebike in my area. If the police decided to crack down on ebikes they would struggle to find one. Cyclist just don't appear on the average coppers radar unless its a drunk weaving his way home or your out after dark without lights( even then you'll just get a warning in most cases)
I ride a motorcycle, do about 20,000 miles a year and socialise with lots of other bikers. Most of the bikes I see are not strictly legal with various upgrades etc very rarely does anyone I know get a ticket. I seldom go on a ride where I don't slightly break one or more speed limits yet the chances of me being caught are very slim.
I realise what you say can happen but I can't see it happening in the real world
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