Thoughts on BEBA

NRG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 6, 2009
2,593
10
Well! going on past experience and from what might be in the pipe line they will probably be better to do things just how they want on there own.

I must make time to manufacture that 8 magnet disk:cool:
My thoughts as well. As long as they keep up the good service and keep their customers happy then word of mouth will do no harm for their sales...
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
5,803
1,781
65
Sevenoaks Kent
Surly we are all missing the point here.

BEBA is as much about promoting electric bicycle use and integrating their use in the transport mix as a mark of good product and service.

I spent most of yesterday in London with the editor of Bike Biz and Sabine from Biscuit PR discussing the promotion of electric bikes in general, the Tour de Presteign and BEBA in particular.

We are currently arranging a meeting with the managing editor of the Sunday Times to discuss the same.

We have also made an agreement to arrange an open day for MP's early in the next parliament to try an electric bike at Westminster.

It has already been announced that BEBA are working with Cytech to incorporate an electric bike qualification in their NVQ course.

This is what BEBA is about, I would hope Alien would want to become involved.

There are far to many people who are content to sit about on their backsides and let others do the work.

Sorry to get a bit grumpy, but I don't think some people understand just how much work has gone into building BEBA and knowing how and why BEBA has been set up I find it incredible that anyone in the electric bike industry would not want to be involved, never mind sit back and make snide remarks!

Hey maybe it's my fault, maybe I have not managed to explain properly what BEBA is.......

Regards

David
 
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Tex

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 14, 2009
251
0
Sydney, Australia
from afar, it (BEBA) seems a smart, responsible and productive initiative. good on you david. it's presence sends a strong signal about the legitimacy of the industry. no one in public life i know takes and industry seriously that doesn't have a reputable association. it is sad folk don't recognize that or want to free ride.
 

dan

Pedelecer
Sep 30, 2009
137
0
Surly we are all missing the point here.

BEBA is as much about promoting electric bicycle use and integrating their use in the transport mix as a mark of good product and service.

I spent most of yesterday in London with the editor of Bike Biz and Biscuit discussing the promotion of electric bikes in general, the Tour de Presteign and BEBA in particular.

We are currently arranging a meeting with the managing editor of the Sunday Times to discuss the same.

We have also made an agreement to arrange an open day for MP's early in the next parliament to try an electric bike at Westminster.

It has already been announced that BEBA are working with Cytech to incorporate an electric bike qualification in their NVQ course.

This is what BEBA is about, I would hope Alien would want to become involved.

There are far to many people who are content to sit about on their backsides and let others do the work.

Sorry to get a bit grumpy, but I don't think some people understand just how much work has gone into building BEBA and knowing how and why BEBA has been set up I find it incredible that anyone in the electric bike industry would not want to be involved, never mind sit back and make snide remarks!

Hey maybe it's my fault, maybe I have not managed to explain properly what BEBA is.......

Regards

David
So whats new, The Sunday Times has had at least 10 articles on electric bikes published, as have most of the other Sundays, daily papers and 100's of loal papers. Also they have appeared on many national and regional TV programs. One program featured 7 electric bikes

Several MP's have trialed electric bikes, including Don Foster who is a keen cyclist. Also Nick Clegg owns and rides an Electric Scooter from his home in Putney to the house of parliment, when he is in London. Although he can't ride a bike, lots have pictures of Ken Livingstone have been published with him and an electric bike.

Dozens of magazines have published articles on electric bikes and have given them away as prizes in competitions

A number of local police forces own and use electric bikes.

I doubt that a week goes by without some sort of media coverage of electric bikes.

One electric bike company has been running dealer training courses for at least 8 years.

You think all this happened because the electric bike industry was sitting on it's backside doing nothing, why do you think that there was an electrike bike industry for you to come in to. Powabyke were spending £10,000.00 a month on PR and advertising in 2001 and you brag about spending £400.00 on a promotion in 2010.

You may get grumpy, I get angry when you disregard what people have done and continue to do for this industry. I would think that every member here does their bit promoting electric bikes
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,532
23,366
The negativity about BEBA just amazes and depresses me in equal measure, especially when it comes from trade sources. As an addition to the UK e-bike scene it can only be good for it's future.

The objections that it represents the interest of just the five key members have no validity whatsoever, simply because the answer lies in the hands of the objectors, just join and make the 5 into 10, 15 or whatever.

I feel equally strongly about the complacency implicit in the attitude that things are fine as they are. While the rest of Europe's e-bike sales outnumber ours more than 6 to 1, things are far from satisfactory and anything that can help change that should be welcomed with open arms.

If there are things you don't like about BEBA at present, just join and change them!!!
.
 

dan

Pedelecer
Sep 30, 2009
137
0
So lets just all pack up and go home Dan!

Why put more effort in? No point really!

The point is other people are making the effort, you are implying your the only person making any effort and that before your company came along no one did anything to promote the electric bike trade.

You also say in press releases to the trade, that before your company every bike was crap and only lasted a few weeks no one bothered to supply spare parts, that they all got dumped on Ebay, No IBD's would touch electric bikes because they were so bad, if that was so who was selling all these electric bikes.....and you wonder why other manufactures and dealers wont join your club...if all you can do is slag them off what do you expect.
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
5,803
1,781
65
Sevenoaks Kent
Calm down (Me and Dan!)

OK calmed down. :)

Dan you have entirely missed the point, I am not bragging that BEBA has put up £400.00 to sponsor TdP, and I know masses of coverage is in place and has been in place for years in the Sunday Times and all over the media. I am aware that MP's ride electric bikes we have a couple on Wispers. Several police forces use our bikes too.

Nothing you have said is news to me or anyone else for that matter. Apart maybe from Powerbyke spending £120,000 pa on PR. If there had been a trade association in existence at the time Powerbike were spending all that cash maybe they would be in a better position now?

The point is BEBA is doing what it does for the electric bike community as a whole, not to glorify or profit the individual members.

Please don't get angry simply because you either genuinely or otherwise have misunderstood my point. Life is too short. :)

Kind regards

David
 
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Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
5,803
1,781
65
Sevenoaks Kent
The point is other people are making the effort, you are implying your the only person making any effort and that before your company came along no one did anything to promote the electric bike trade.

You also say in press releases to the trade, that before your company every bike was crap and only lasted a few weeks no one bothered to supply spare parts, that they all got dumped on Ebay, No IBD's would touch electric bikes because they were so bad, if that was so who was selling all these electric bikes.....and you wonder why other manufactures and dealers wont join your club...if all you can do is slag them off what do you expect.
Why is it do you think Dan that IBD's are reticent to take on electric bikes..... still?

I am not saying Wisper has lead a revolution, just been involved in it! 50 Cycles were there years before Wisper with Ezee. Are you suggesting that electric bikes have always been perfect?

You may have misunderstood but BEBA is not a Wisper club!

Best regards

David

PS Are you involved in electric bike sales or manufacture?
 
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Alex728

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 16, 2008
1,109
-1
Ipswich
I've spoken to people in IBD's and heard mixed views about e-bikes in general. Some of the more "mainstream" shops aren't against them, but they are a lot of extra work to maintain (they they have to justify the cost to the customer) and the shop workers find that manufactures aren't as responsive with regard to support and timely delivery of spares as normal pushbike manufacturers.

Also although Powabyke may have done a lot of work, due to the appearance of their machines they ultimately gained a niche market amongst the older generation (until the X series) - it was only the appearance of MTB/hybrid type e-bikes such as the Powacycle Salisbury, the Wisper and the Kahlkoff which grew the market to a wider demographic particularly younger people.

The fact BEBA is being set up at all is IMO a very good thing (as well as the separate venture of Raleigh selling e-bikes in their franchised LBS's) as it should hopefully raise the bar of customer service.

At the moment the only thing making some companies deliver is the people from this forum constantly shining the glare of scrutiny on to them but not everyone has access to the Internet or in depth technical knowledge of E-bikes!

Even as a staunch advocate of e-bikes I would not recommend them to anyone who wasn't an engineer or tech minded due to the sheer amount of teething problems they still have.

The entire industry really needs some solidarity to highlight these issues and increase quality of such things as Wuxing parts, controllers or to be able to help IBD's quickly resolve problems without days/weeks of downtime if they hope to see e-bikes become more mainstream transport for all.
 
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Django

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 11, 2007
453
1
The negativity about BEBA just amazes and depresses me in equal measure . . . . . . .
I have refrained from joining in so far, mainly because the answers to all of the objections seem to have been comprehensively made.

I too am amazed and depressed by some of these reactions and I too wish BEBA the very best for the future. This is exactly, precisely and clearly what has been needed for some time. I salute all founding members and, once again, am delighted that David is prepared to put the effort in to this important venture.

David, if I can do anything to help let me know. If I can make the BEBA meeting I will certainly do so - I just need a date before I can be sure.
 

alex_h

Pedelecer
Dec 28, 2009
197
4
I honestly think David that if BEBA would publish a well prepared and really impartial COP then you did not have such a negative feeback from so many members here. As we all seen your COP has been very controversial in many points that is why you got all that negative response.

Now really its good for you to turn to a PR agency because that's the only thing that can help you. I really suggest you discuss all the matters with Buicuit PR if you want to avoid future disasters.

I also think that what you do for BEBA is very good excluding those points that really care about your own interests. I believe this industry as any other needs a strong voice about its aims but using BEBA to promote your own interest is not good thing at all and rather perceived as a negative PR for you and your brand. What you do for BEBA is great but putting yourself in a press in a great light and saying that industry was in a mess before you came is probably not ok. I don't know about it too much as in the ebike industry I am very new indeed but that seems to be rubbish what you said.

All the best

Alex

PS when did you plan that meeting for? I gotta check if I will be able to make it, waiting for the news
 

Stumpi

Pedelecer
Dec 3, 2009
192
40
Scotland
Just thought I'd add my two penneth

I think the idea of BEBA is a good one. To have trade organisation set up at this stage of a fast growing industry can only be a good thing. The guidelines and how’s its run will always be debated. If you ask 100 different people you'll get a 100 different opinions of how its should be run.

Its not an easy thing to set up as by the very nature of business you have people who are normally in competition with each other sitting down to work together for a common cause. There will have to be compromises and of course not everyone will be happy. But even if BEBA and their COP are not quite how some people would like to see them then that’s still better than none at all IMO.

I have had dealings with Wisper, Cytronex and Alien and had contact with Gepida in all cases they have come across as professional business men with an interest in long term customer care and of course repeat custom. If they are typical of what you can expect from a BEBA member then it really means something.

Stumpi
 

Tex

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 14, 2009
251
0
Sydney, Australia
well said Stumpi, well said. If folk think that some blogging and internet chatter is going to help build critical mass for the e-bike community, user or producer, they are sadly mistaken. BEBA is critical to critical mass, and from afar you aint there yet in the UK.
 
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alex_h

Pedelecer
Dec 28, 2009
197
4
All lets all say it, this industry needs BEBA and there is no point to argue about that for suck sake. This organisation however still has a long way to go before it will be properly set up.:cool:
 

Old Timer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 5, 2009
1,279
12
I tend to agree that the trade needs something which might encourage new outlets in parts of the country where dealers are scarce.

I ride my bikes a lot around North Norfolk and youv`e all seen my videos and how outgoing I am and get stopped and asked where they can try one in Norfolk. I have no answer to that I`m afraid.This is what is pointing a lot of people to the internet and if you are buying your first bike it`s hobsons choice.

If I were a bit younger I would have hung onto my 2,000 sq ft workshop/warehouse and maybe set up a decent centre where several makes could be viewed. That`s what I see as a major thing that needs sorting" more dealers scattered around*

Maybe the new Rayleigh bikes will be able to convince dealers with there long standing reputation as bike makers.
 

Xcytronex

Pedelecer
Jul 23, 2009
139
0
well said Stumpi, well said. If folk think that some blogging and internet chatter is going to help build critical mass for the e-bike community, user or producer, they are sadly mistaken. BEBA is critical to critical mass, and from afar you aint there yet in the UK.
Apart from the inherent politics BEBA will ensure that respective sellers will be accountable to their CUSTOMERS--- something David has gone to great lengths to prove-just read any reply to a Wisper problem posted on this forum.Every new organisation has a starting point -interest and input from members will refine their remit.Speaking from experience -spending £1000 + [distance buying] on a piece of kit that is seriously flawed and being told to like it or lump it is no joke !! Are the main objectors ringers ??????????? !!!!!!!!
 

alex_h

Pedelecer
Dec 28, 2009
197
4
I think every brand would be silly to leave customers screwd up with a problem. These days the power of the internet and consmers centric communications has such a strong influence on the brands that many of them is even scared to face us customers online. What's in the David's case he certainly looks after his business and his customers which is big plus for him. However what I truly don't like about him is that he puts himself in a better light against the rest of the industry which I think its not really fair. Promote yourself but do it ethically.

thanks

Alex
 

NRG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 6, 2009
2,593
10
I don’t like to see people get grumpy! I think the idea of BEBA is well grounded and just what’s needed for the industry, what I disagree with is the entry criteria, same as Alex_h I have no association with the bike or e-bike industry, I’m approaching this as nothing more than as a consumer / customer.

When I view the COP I can see a set of structured criteria well laid out but ultimately set around a business model that does not include, for instance, on-line resellers. This comes over as a limited approach and possibly as an organisation trying to impose a set business model upon the industry as a whole, hence my agreement with OT that perhaps the likes of Alien and other on-line resellers would benefit from continuing in the way they go to market currently. I also feel uneasy about the members page on the current BEBA website because it currently reads like an advertising board...

....anyhow moving on, I was at the NEC yesterday being dragged around the Gadget Show live event, the place was heaving, I suspect in excess of 10K people in attendance throughout the day and who did I find there with stands?....Cytronex / No Hills and A2B...excellent! I spent some time on each looking at the bikes and chatting but it was difficult as their stands where constantly busy. The A2B stand was large and having attended and been part of shows like this in another industry I *know* they do not come cheap! The Cytronex / No Hills stand was smaller but it still would have been costly...my point? I didn't see any BEBA promotion at the event, I may have missed it but as A2B are one of the founding members I found it strange....probable because the BEBA is so new there wasn't the time to participate. But with an eye on the future this is the sort of event the BEBA needs to be part of, the amount of footfall on the stands over 4 days will be substantial and will generate a lot of awareness right where its needed. Cytronex / No Hills and A2B should be congratulated; I hope their sales grow after all their hard work.
 
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Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
5,803
1,781
65
Sevenoaks Kent
I think every brand would be silly to leave customers screwd up with a problem. These days the power of the internet and consmers centric communications has such a strong influence on the brands that many of them is even scared to face us customers online. What's in the David's case he certainly looks after his business and his customers which is big plus for him. However what I truly don't like about him is that he puts himself in a better light against the rest of the industry which I think its not really fair. Promote yourself but do it ethically.

thanks

Alex
Hi Alex, what should I do, resign from Wisper simply because I am Chair of BEBA, maybe close Wisper down?

BEBA has only got this far because of financial support of a few far sighted people / businesses in the industry, where should the money have come from? How far would we have got by kindly asking you and others from Pedelecs for a sub of £500 or so each?

The fact is I am a director of Wisper and people know that, nothing I can do about it, I don't post anonymously I post as Wisper because I have nothing to hide, I publish my private mobile telephone number on all my posts so if anyone has an issue with me, Wisper Bikes or BEBA they can pick up the phone. Strangely I have has a lot of calls supporting me and BEBA not one person with a gripe has bothered to call me to discuss.

I am not pushing Wisper above other BEBA members' products as I have repeatedly and clearly demonstrated.

David
 
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