The bottom bracket on my Bosch motor has developed a lot of play on the drive side. Are these user or dealer serviceable? or is the only option available having to send it back to Bosch for repair?

 

I understand that a bottom bracket on a normal bicycle is not covered by a warranty, worn bearings are not considered to be a fault, just normal serviceable parts. I'm concerned that wear in the bottom bracket of the Bosch could also lead to damage occurring to other parts in the housing.

 

Has anyone any experience of changing the bottom bracket bearings on a Bosch motor?

What do you mean by bottom bracket (sorry being thick) ..? get confused when you say it is part of motor but then possibly covered under warranty. Had to get my motor sent back and that took over a month because they did not have a spare motor at all in stock for warranty issues.....

I think he means that his crank spindle has developed some play, i.e. it's rattling up and down a bit instead of going round and round. Is that what you had?

Wissy I think the play is in the part similar to the one below, that is housed in the motor, but I'm not sure if this is or isn't covered under warranty, and I'm not sure if Bosch actually sell the parts to service the unit at home or even at the dealers.

 

http://www.wigglestatic.com/images/fsa%20platinum%20bb.jpg?w=430&h=430&a=7

Mine was an issue moving at all rather than having some play. Perhaps the brand sellers would be able to answer better rather than dealers? Ie KTM perhaps could clarify what is / isn't covered... Col anywhere?

 

Also I would like to ask somebody like Col what would a buyer have to do to get a part fixed a. Under warranty or b. no warranty left if there was no dealer eg second hand bike, overseas buy, ebay etc? Bosch and SRAM etc don't seem to deal with Joe Bloggs. So how woukd you get parts fixed for a KTM in such circumstances.. Or does KTM and such manufacturers not care / get involved because the part needing fixing is not their responsibility?

Play in the bearings of a Bosch motor should be covered under warranty. They're not a service item like on a normal bike, neither is there a conventional BB in there.

This is what's inside. The crank spindle is the bit in the middle with the white gear on it:

 

Play in the bearings of a Bosch motor should be covered under warranty. They're not a service item like on a normal bike, neither is there a conventional BB in there.

 

Those were my thoughts too. I also have my eye on the future for when the bearings fail again in a another year's time, when the motor is out of warranty as Wissy points out.

Mine was an issue moving at all rather than having some play. Perhaps the brand sellers would be able to answer better rather than dealers? Ie KTM perhaps could clarify what is / isn't covered... Col anywhere?

 

I can help, but we very much try not to get involved with individual cases, because the warranty is with the dealer you bought it from, not the brand. The shops warranty is then with us. For a whole range of reasons its for everyone's benefit that the supply chain remains intact.

 

Also I would like to ask somebody like Col what would a buyer have to do to get a part fixed a. Under warranty or b. no warranty left if there was no dealer eg second hand bike, overseas buy, ebay etc?

 

if there is no dealer, there is no warranty, generally. You have to go back to the person you bought the bike from to claim on a warranty. This is one of the reasons why new bikes cost more. Dealers have to make a certain margin to cover all the cost of selling bikes, and looking after customers. If you save money by buying second hand, or from overseas - its this service and support that you're not paying for - and therefore don't get.

 

Bosch and SRAM etc don't seem to deal with Joe Bloggs. So how woukd you get parts fixed for a KTM in such circumstances.. Or does KTM and such manufacturers not care / get involved because the part needing fixing is not their responsibility?

 

This is because Bosch / Sram dont sell to Joe Bloggs. Their relationship is with the person who bought the product. They don;t sell to the public, so they don't deal with the public. So if you have a broken part thats not covered under warranty you'd simply need to go to a KTM or Bosch, or any other brand dealer and buy the parts you need, and the dealer will fit and service them. As you'll have then purchased new products from a dealer, those parts will be covered by a warranty, even if the rest of the bike isn't.

 

I should just point out, that warranty covers manufacturing faults. This does not include things wearing out, unless its worn out in an excessively short time frame. So I'm afraid bearings are generally not covered.

 

I'm not sure Bosch would cover a warranty on a drive thats been used with a Dongle anyway. But thats another discussion, and a question I will ask them when I meet with them next week.

 

Regards

Col

 

if there is no dealer, there is no warranty, generally. You have to go back to the person you bought the bike from to claim on a warranty. This is one of the reasons why new bikes cost more. Dealers have to make a certain margin to cover all the cost of selling bikes, and looking after customers. If you save money by buying second hand, or from overseas - its this service and support that you're not paying for - and therefore don't get.

 

 

Regards

Col

 

Doesn't work like that with most consumer items, from cars to TVs though in practice. What happens if you buy in one country and then move to another and have a problem? Or are on holiday? I can just see a Volkswagen dealer in the UK telling someone in that position to crate the car up and get it sent back to the dealer in Germany or wherever it was he bought it.

My understanding is the Bosch system uses an ISIS bottom bracket.

 

I wonder if the white cog on the bottom bracket in d8's pic will disassemble leaving a replaceable ISIS bottom bracket.

But what if the bike is out of warranty Col? What then? You say take it back to the dealer...? What if dealer only says they only sort things out if under warranty? What if the dealer is far away? What if you want a quote? How do you get stuff like Bosch fixed if there is no warranty left? Are you also saying it is basically not possible to fix a Bosch problem on a KTM bike if out of warranty or if no dealer (for whatever reason.. !)?

Cars aren't the best comparison.

Doesn't work like that with most consumer items, from cars to TVs though in practice. What happens if you buy in one country and then move to another and have a problem? Or are on holiday? I can just see a Volkswagen dealer in the UK telling someone in that position to crate the car up and get it sent back to the dealer in Germany or wherever it was he bought it.

 

its very much different in different sectors and with different brands. Your example is of course correct with cars. But equally you wouldn't expect to buy a Playstation from Curry's on-line you wouldn't expect your local games store to sort it out if it broke for free. Its the same with most brands in the bike industry. The warranty system is set up to support the dealers who sell the products. Ie one of my riding buddies has a set of Easton Wheels that have failed. He bought them on-line so he's had to send them back to Wiggle. Had he bought them from the local shop, he'd have paid a bit more, but they'd have helped him out with no need to ship the products back to Wiggle.

 

Some brands offer world wide warranty coverage and you can just walk into any dealer and they will sort the warranty, but the vast majority in cycling do not. You have to return the faulty product to the point of purchase.

 

But what if the bike is out of warranty Col? What then? You say take it back to the dealer...? What if dealer only says they only sort things out if under warranty? What if the dealer is far away? What if you want a quote? How do you get stuff like Bosch fixed if there is no warranty left? Are you also saying it is basically not possible to fix a Bosch problem on a KTM bike if out of warranty or if no dealer (for whatever reason.. !)?

 

If the bike is out of warranty, you just take it to your local shop to get fixed, or indeed you can send it anywhere to have it fixed or repaired. No bike shop should be saying they'll only work on warranty parts... if they did that they'd go bust very very quickly. A high % of any shops income is from servicing and repairs.

 

If you are dealing with a shop thats a long way away, this is something that I'm afraid was your decision when purchasing. There are many advantages to mail order, but equally if things need fixing or sorting out, there are some big disadvantages.

 

If your bike is out of warranty, fixing, servicing is 100% possible and can be done by any shop.

 

I hope thats answered all your questions, if you have any more, please try to make them specific questions so I can answer them clearly.

 

Regards

Col.

My understanding is the Bosch system uses an ISIS bottom bracket.

 

I wonder if the white cog on the bottom bracket in d8's pic will disassemble leaving a replaceable ISIS bottom bracket.

 

the red blob on the side of the BB in the picture below looks like a strain gauge for torque measuring. You can't access the interface between the spindle and the BB shell with standard Isis BB.

 

I've not had one of these apart, so this is just my personal observation... not a professional input. For that you'll have to wait until tomorrow.

 

The bottom bracket looks to use cartridge bearings so the whole unit, including sensors won't need replacing, it'll more than likely just need the bearings replacing.

 

I will have our warranty guys look at this tomorrow, if they aren't already.

 

Cheers

Col.

Exactly what I was thinking, just two new cartridge bearings, I hope.

So , being specific, am i right that you (Col) agree that it is reasonable to expect dealers of KTM pedelecs to arrange that a KTM pedelec is fixed (Bosch motor for example) outside the warranty period?

So , being specific, am i right that you (Col) agree that it is reasonable to expect dealers of KTM pedelecs to arrange that a KTM pedelec is fixed (Bosch motor for example) outside the warranty period?

 

no shop "has" to do anything. But any shop can take on work as and when they want to, just as any business can do. But yes its reasonable to expect that should any brand of bike (KTM included) need service or repair work doing on it that is not covered by warranty any shop would want to do that work to ensure that their workshop continues to bring in the income that is needed to keep them trading.

 

Just to be clear, warranty work is done "free of charge" to you the customer. The parts costs are generally covered by the brand, the labour cost is sometimes covered by the brand.

 

If your bike or the specific part isn't covered by warranty for whatever reason, you the customer would be paying the shop for the parts and labour.

 

Is that what you were looking for?

 

Col

My understanding is the Bosch system uses an ISIS bottom bracket.

 

I wonder if the white cog on the bottom bracket in d8's pic will disassemble leaving a replaceable ISIS bottom bracket.

No, it's completely different. It looks like there's a ball-race on each end, which you should be able to remove and replace with one from a bearing supplier. They'll have numbers on them that identify them. Bosch don't make ball-races, so don't buy one through the Bosch chain: it'll only work out more expensive for the same thing.

 

This warranty thing would really put me off buying a used European bike. They haven't really been around long enough to test their durability, but the level of risk would be quite high, which will push down second-hand prices. People need to take this into consideration when buying new. The Chinese bikes are mainly modular. Even if you can't get hold of a direct replacement part, there's always an equivalent, which can even give you the opportunity to upgrade to latest technology.

I understand (plenty of experience) about the warranty side and payment blah but I am aware a few questions have been asked over time on this forum attempting to get the answer to that simple question of whether dealers would arrange to get non warranty issues (Bosch) fixed but responses always got diverted (as it was a bit earlier) to benefits of buying from a dealer, should not have bought from abroad or not actually answered. now it is answered at last!

The Chinese bikes are mainly modular.

 

surely all bikes are modular... they are all a selection of parts from various sources. It doesn't matter which part of the world those parts were assembled in.

 

What your looking for is a brand of bike, where the parts are available easily should you need them, and/or a brand of bike where the parts can be replaced or upgraded with others. That is one of the advantages that Bosch actually offers. Its a reliable unit itself, parts can be ordered from any Bosch dealer anywhere in Europe, and the rest of the bike is just a normal bike, so any bike shop even if they have no eBike experience can service and repair / replace parts if needed.

I understand (plenty of experience) about the warranty side and payment blah but I am aware a few questions have been asked over time on this forum attempting to get the answer to that simple question of whether dealers would arrange to get non warranty issues (Bosch) fixed but responses always got diverted (as it was a bit earlier) to benefits of buying from a dealer, should not have bought from abroad or not actually answered. now it is answered at last!

 

I can't say I really understand why your question hadn't been answered before. It doesn't seem that tricky, or even controversial, you're essentially just asking whether a shop should service / repair a bike if the work isn't covered by warranty aren't you? Which is simply a business transaction like taking your car to the garage, they can do the work, or they can say they aren't comfortable with it and send you somewhere else. There is no requirement on a shop to do work on any bike.

 

A lot of the comments about buying abroad or buying second hand etc etc, are only relevant to the warranty work.

 

Of course the two are linked... if you've bought a bike on-line, or from overseas its highly possible your local shop might be slightly miffed by that and not want to work on your bike. However in most cases, shop owners won't care where bike is bought, they'll take your money to service / repair a bike no matter on its origin.

Cars aren't the best comparison.

 

 

its very much different in different sectors and with different brands. Your example is of course correct with cars. But equally you wouldn't expect to buy a Playstation from Curry's on-line you wouldn't expect your local games store to sort it out if it broke for free. Its the same with most brands in the bike industry. The warranty system is set up to support the dealers who sell the products.

 

 

Col.

 

In the case of the Playstation it would just go into the repair network and be done under warranty if still covered. The online store, or if bought abroad the shop, would not be involved, and would only be involved if it was bought on the UK high street and if you wanted to involve them. I know because I've dealt with Sony and Samsung and others when I've bought their products online and abroad; and from shops here who don't want to know if things go wrong.

 

Most consumer durables manufacturers have got their act together and realise that they they can't make their customers jump through hoops, or let them down like a cheap double glazing company. They trade on their reputations.

 

It does make you wonder just how much support you can expect with products like e bikes. They are not just cheap throwaway items after all and dealers and not customers seem to be king in this sector. It seems to me that the manufactures see the dealers as their customers and the real customer takes his chances.

 

BTW it would be completely unreasonable to expect a dealer to repair a bike under warranty which had been bought elsewhere or in another country under the existing arrangements. It's the existing arrangements which are not fit for purpose, and in the case of someone buying in one EU country and then moving to another and finding local warranty support unobtainable, practically amount to a restraint of trade.

Edited August 20, 201411 yr by JohnCade

surely all bikes are modular... they are all a selection of parts from various sources. It doesn't matter which part of the world those parts were assembled in.

 

What your looking for is a brand of bike, where the parts are available easily should you need them, and/or a brand of bike where the parts can be replaced or upgraded with others. That is one of the advantages that Bosch actually offers. Its a reliable unit itself, parts can be ordered from any Bosch dealer anywhere in Europe, and the rest of the bike is just a normal bike, so any bike shop even if they have no eBike experience can service and repair / replace parts if needed.

 

That's true, but some are more modular than others. On a typical Chinese bike,you can swap motors and controllers for different types and brands. The same with displays, throttles and sensors. Also, you can swap batteries for different types, sizes and brands. The bits are available from a large number of sources, and can typically be unplugged and swapped.The Bosch system has the sensors and controller integrated in the motor and there's no alternatives. There's also no alternatives to the battery and display, and even if yo can get replacements, you still need a dealer to set them up. I guess that the Panasonic and Yamaha systems are similar.

 

I'm thinking more about the guy with a broken bike that doesn't reside next door to a dealer he bought the bike from. Any person competent in basic electrics can fix a Chinese bike, but for a European one, you need special training, equipment and software, so if you live in the back of beyond, you're forked.

 

Think about the guy that wanted a new display for his Bosch bike. Even if he or his local bike shop could get one, it still wouldn't work without the special programming by a Bosch dealer, which they couldn't do without the bike (supposedly), so he had to send his bike a long way to get it fixed.

all true, cant argue with any of it.

 

although I would suggest that most eBike customers, don't have enough electric skills or the time to learn or use them to do the things you've suggested, no matter where their bike is purchased from. A high % on here will do, but most customer don't. A high % can't even fix an innertube, which is why they buy from a bike shop, to get the support they need.