If I buy a Bosch drill and it breaks under warranty, I take it to a Bosch service centre. The nearest.

 

When I purchased my cycle, I was told I have a 2 year warranty on Bosch parts. I assumed my warrantly would be valid anywhere in the country.

 

Are you saying that this is not the case? After all, dealers come and go all the time.

We can't speak for Bosch, so I'll check what their policy is and come back to you.

From our perspective we do not generally do warranty work for other dealers. We have done warranty work for others in the past but have found it to be not worth the hassle.

 

If the dealer is still around they should carry out the work. If the dealer no longer exists I would expect the bike manufacturer e.g. Wisper, KTM etc to find a solution.

 

If an item was out of warranty and the customer wanted parts and repair work we would do this as long as we stock the brand.

If I buy a Bosch drill and it breaks under warranty, I take it to a Bosch service centre. The nearest.

 

When I purchased my cycle, I was told I have a 2 year warranty on Bosch parts. I assumed my warrantly would be valid anywhere in the country.

 

Are you saying that this is not the case? After all, dealers come and go all the time.

 

Precisely. Just as in the case of a TV or a car or motorcycle the manufacture takes ultimate responsibility for warranty issues. It's not just down to the dealer who sold it. For instance KTM motorcycles are covered by a European warranty, and problems can be dealt with by any authorised KTM dealer. You would not be expected to ship it back to the country where you bought it if you were on holiday or had moved to another country.

 

The closest to the niche market of e bikes in the UK is perhaps the quality hi-fi industry. Many small companies like Rega, or bigger but still small by international standards like Naim Audio are still active in the market. These companies sell through dealer networks which make their living from the high markups on the products. But they are expected to earn those markups by providing a good customer support service prior to sale in demos, and post sale in customer support and dealing with problems. But if the customer has a warranty issue with a product he is not expected to deal with the dealer he bought it from if he doesn't live near him anymore, or even if he just doesn't like him. He can take it to any authorised dealer anywhere in the world who will repair it under warranty, or send it back to the factory or an in country repair facility if he can't.

 

Warranties differ depending on the territory, but the principal of the manufacturer taking responsibility for their products and not passing it off to a local dealer who may or may not give a toss remains. With e bikes it seems a dealer can just move on to another brand and the customer can be left in the lurch and in the hands of a manufacturer in another country who won't deal with end users direct, and just leaves it to the goodwill of other dealers in the country to sort out the mess.

Edited August 21, 201411 yr by JohnCade

you buy a second hand 2 year old Kalkhoff and have a problem. So you ring 50Cycles, who are the official importers.

You can expect that 50Cycles have the expertise and spares, and are capable of arranging any repair.

My question to Col: why can't you expect the same level of service with other brands such as KTM?

If I buy a Bosch drill and it breaks under warranty, I take it to a Bosch service centre. The nearest.

 

When I purchased my cycle, I was told I have a 2 year warranty on Bosch parts. I assumed my warrantly would be valid anywhere in the country.

 

Are you saying that this is not the case? After all, dealers come and go all the time.

 

 

I absolutely agree. We are constantly being told that electric bikes costing several thousands of pounds are so priced because of the excellent backup and warranty service which accompanies them. If the whole process relies on a single shop remaining in business through tough economic times and also that single shop being a convenient distance from the purchaser's home, then it certainly is not excellent backup and warranty service. So why the big price tag we must wonder?

 

If my Stihl hedge cutters break, I take them to any authorised Stihl dealer for repair, if the VW breaks down under warranty it goes to any VW dealer, if my Aldi chain saw breaks under warranty it goes to a central service depot, and so on. If I bought an electric bike for £300, off eBay, from a Spiv, and it broke, and the Spiv had gone bust, or had ceased trading, I might not have high expectations of receiving a free repair under warranty. From what I'm reading here, the big price ticket bikes could deliver the same, "Spiv Service" if the shop goes bust.

 

On high end bikes costing thousands, the buyer needs to rely on the big brand name, Bosch etc, not a shop, in a street.

I think that the difference in the various analogies being put forward here is that generally with HiFi's TVs etc. the manufactures often set up UK service centres to take care of warranty issues. This is not the case with bikes & e-bikes in the UK.

 

Ultimately in UK law it isn't the manufacturer who is legally responsible for warranty issues, it is the dealer. There may be a moral responsibility on the manufacturer but not a legal one.

 

I can also certainly understand dealers like Electrifying Cycles above not doing warranty work on other dealer's sales. Why should they take on the hassle of dealing with something when the customer has bought off the internet / from a warehouse / overseas etc. normally at a lower price? The main profit is made in the sale & not the warranty work. Dealers like them will invest in the mechanics, training & facilities & that is why I support dealers like them when buying any product rather than go for the cheap (at first!) option.

Two cases are now being mentioned dealer going bust or changing brand,the changing brand does not relieve the dealer of his obligations he entered a contract at the time of sale and that still stands,if he goes bust thats different.

you buy a second hand 2 year old Kalkhoff and have a problem. So you ring 50Cycles, who are the official importers.

You can expect that 50Cycles have the expertise and spares, and are capable of arranging any repair.

My question to Col: why can't you expect the same level of service with other brands such as KTM?

 

If you buy a second hand 2 year old KTM and have a problem, you can by all means ring us and we'd put you in touch with a KTM dealer local to you who has the expertise and spares, and are capable or arranging any repair.

 

There is no difference between the examples. Expect the fact that at the moment there are 90 KTM dealers around the UK, and I think 50 Cycles only have 5 stores. So chances are youd actually you'd be able to get your KTM looked at more locally.

I use Nikon cameras if they go wrong within the warranty period i take them back to the dealer i bought them from,if he went bust i wouldn't expect another dealer to take over the obligation i would send it back to nikon uk myself.

I think that the difference in the various analogies being put forward here is that generally with HiFi's TVs etc. the manufactures often set up UK service centres to take care of warranty issues. This is not the case with bikes & e-bikes in the UK.

 

Ultimately in UK law it isn't the manufacturer who is legally responsible for warranty issues, it is the dealer. There may be a moral responsibility on the manufacturer but not a legal one.

 

I can also certainly understand dealers like Electrifying Cycles above not doing warranty work on other dealer's sales. Why should they take on the hassle of dealing with something when the customer has bought off the internet / from a warehouse / overseas etc. normally at a lower price? The main profit is made in the sale & not the warranty work. Dealers like them will invest in the mechanics, training & facilities & that is why I support dealers like them when buying any product rather than go for the cheap (at first!) option.

 

Well that's my point. Why don't they have properly set up service centres? At the very least reciprocal arrangements so dealers can cover each other and be reimbursed ultimately by the manufacturer.

 

In practise the place you buy a product from is not solely responsible for dealing with problems with that product; and it's not a case of moral responsibility. It's more PR and that if they want to be taken seriously, and for this market to be taken seriously, the makers of e bikes have to put in place better support than exists now. Why should a Bosch drill be treated differently from a Bosch motor in a bike? Why should a buyer of a KTM e bike be treated in a different way to one who bought a KTM motorcycle? The KTM motor bikes are not that much more expensive that the top or the range e bikes BTW.

I use Nikon cameras if they go wrong within the warranty period i take them back to the dealer i bought them from,if he went bust i wouldn't expect another dealer to take over the obligation i would send it back to nikon uk myself.

 

Except if a e bike dealer went bust a foreign manufacturer would almost certainly not deal with you direct, and a camera is a bit easier to send somewhere that an e bike. You should be able to take a camera to any dealer who would get it sorted under proper reciprocal agreements anyway. You might have moved a long way away from the place you bought it.

 

That's how grown up market segments work.

Very interesting thread. The question I would like answered is as follows: If your bike develops an issue, you take it back to your dealer. If the repair is a warranty item, the dealer will get the part from the manufacturer I suppose?. BUT, does the dealer then get paid for his time to do the repair from the manufacturer (like in the car industry) or, does the dealer have to "absorb" the cost of his time himself? Col, I guess you know the answer to this?

In practise the place you buy a product from is not solely responsible for dealing with problems with that product; and it's not a case of moral responsibility.

But that's not the way the Sale of Goods Act works, much of which is written from the point of view of protecting the consumer from the dealer trying to pass the buck to the manufacturer.

Very interesting thread. The question I would like answered is as follows: If your bike develops an issue, you take it back to your dealer. If the repair is a warranty item, the dealer will get the part from the manufacturer I suppose?. BUT, does the dealer then get paid for his time to do the repair from the manufacturer (like in the car industry) or, does the dealer have to "absorb" the cost of his time himself? Col, I guess you know the answer to this?

 

I think the answer has been given and is the core of the problem. The dealer takes on responsibility for warranty issues. There is no arrangement in place as there is in most mature market segments where dealers are reimbursed centrally for the work they do.

Exactly, so, if that is the case, there is the issue. Simple.

But that's not the way the Sale of Goods Act works, much of which is written from the point of view of protecting the consumer from the dealer trying to pass the buck to the manufacturer.

 

I know it is, but it has been superseded in practise with most consumer durables. If I buy a coat which goes at the seams within a short time I go back to the shop and will not be put off by them trying to pass the buck. If I buy a Sony TV I go over the shop's head to Sony direct. Because it's easier for me to pick up the phone and get them to send someone out rather than bugger about with sales people. Sony will do that as will any reputable company.

I think the answer has been given and is the core of the problem. The dealer takes on responsibility for warranty issues. There is no arrangement in place as there is in most mature market segments where dealers are reimbursed centrally for the work they do.

 

If you've got impression I'm sorry. Its very much dealt with on a case by case basis. If its a simple part replacement then its generally not worth the dealer claiming for their labour time.

 

But if its a problem that takes time, then we (and I'm sure other brands are the same from experience) have systems in place to credit the dealer for the labour work on any given problem.

Two cases are now being mentioned dealer going bust or changing brand,the changing brand does not relieve the dealer of his obligations he entered a contract at the time of sale and that still stands,if he goes bust thats different.

 

There was a thread here a week ago where it was said that a dealer stopped selling a brand and the customer was left in the lurch. The dealer had no relationship with the manufacturer anymore so couldn't get spares if he wanted to.

 

Yes in law the contract is with the dealer. But is the customer supposed to sue him? Trading standards can help a bit but are understaffed and will not fight an individual case. So in practise the customer can find himself stuffed irrespective of how the law is supposed to work in theory.

If you've got impression I'm sorry. Its very much dealt with on a case by case basis. If its a simple part replacement then its generally not worth the dealer claiming for their labour time.

 

But if its a problem that takes time, then we (and I'm sure other brands are the same from experience) have systems in place to credit the dealer for the labour work on any given problem.

 

But I believe that these arrangements are ad hoc and voluntary aren't they? To cover dealers who have gone bust and such like?

 

If a customer has simply moved a long way away or abroad, there are no standard arrangement in place as there are in for instance the case of KTM motorcycles or Bosch drills and the like.

 

I know I was told by Derby Cycle that if I moved abroad and took my bike with me I would have to send it back to the country and dealer I bought it from if it had a problem with it. They also said they would have no dealings with me direct to facilitate a repair with a local dealer. I think that's pretty standard practice in the industry.

There lots of confusion in this thread, discussing things and wires are getting crossed.

 

But I believe that these arrangements are ad hoc and voluntary aren't they? To cover dealers who have gone bust and such like?

 

No. You seem to be confusing a number of different issues. If a customer has a warranty item and they take it back to the dealer they bought it from, us and other brands will cover the labour cost of that dealer doing the work. Which is what the orginal question asked:

 

The question I would like answered is as follows: If your bike develops an issue, you take it back to your dealer. If the repair is a warranty item, the dealer will get the part from the manufacturer I suppose?. BUT, does the dealer then get paid for his time to do the repair from the manufacturer (like in the car industry) or, does the dealer have to "absorb" the cost of his time himself? Col, I guess you know the answer to this?

 

So I hope that clears up Nashdm2's question.

 

Your point....

 

 

If a customer has simply moved a long way away or abroad, there are no standard arrangement in place as there are in for instance the case of KTM motorcycles or Bosch drills and the like.

 

This is a different point and a different answer.

 

This is a bit more adhock. Its about relationships, and customer care. So generally if someone calls us with a genuine problem and a reason why they can't deal with the dealer they bought the bike from, we will of course help them, and we have done.

 

I know I was told by Derby Cycle that if I moved abroad and took my bike with me I would have to send it back to the country and dealer I bought it from if it had a problem with it. They also said they would have no dealings with me direct to facilitate a repair with a local dealer. I think that's pretty standard practice in the industry.

 

Thats how they operate, I can't comment on that. But every company has to have a policy. Ours is the same, we don't deal with the public, and thats very standard in the bike industry, not just eBikes. However we have in the past dealt with the public if there is a good reason.

 

Hope that helps.

isn't it true that the warranty is issued by the brand? if so, then is the brand ultimately liable to cover repairs if the dealer fails to honour the warranty (eg unsatisfactory repairs)? I know of a case where extended warranty was sold with the goods, the dealer subsequently went bust, the insurance company that issued the policy paid up the claim.

isn't it true that the warranty is issued by the brand? if so, then is the brand ultimately liable to cover repairs if the dealer fails to honour the warranty (eg unsatisfactory repairs)?

 

Why would a dealer refuse to honour the warranty? If the parts and labour are covered by the brand (which if its a genuine warranty they will be) there is no reason to honour it.

 

I know of a case where extended warranty was sold with the goods, the dealer subsequently went bust, the insurance company that issued the policy paid up the claim.

 

This is a totally separate point, but yes if a dealer goes bust, the customer still has lots of rights. And I don't think any brands of any product would seek to avoid supporting the end consumer just because a dealer had gone bust.

There lots of confusion in this thread, discussing things and wires are getting crossed.

 

 

 

Hope that helps.

 

Lots of things have been thrown into this thread. But the point I and others have been making and which you are not addressing is the difficulty of getting warranty issues sorted if you no longer live nearby the dealer you bought it from. Unlike most comparable products.

 

As you imply it seems to be a hangover from the bike industry. But bikes are not quite the same, and maybe if e bikes are to become more popular as a means of commuting, and are to be relied on, the industry should become a little less backward and try to get away from its bicycle roots in warranty issues?

have you had a specific problem in the past, that we can perhaps discuss? or is your concern hypothetical?

 

I've been working in the bike industry for 20 years in a variety of roles and whilst I can see the frustrations with some parts of it, it has evolved to be the way it is for a number of reasons. The main frustration is the time it takes to get replacement parts from some suppliers, and this wouldn't change if you dealt with your dealer or the component brand direct.