Been reading lots of threads over on ES about Multistar packs and it always comes down to 18650 cells are better bang for the buck. I think we are living in parallel universes. The NiHV packs are not the cheapest Lipo packs on the market but compared to a 10.4 Ah bottle battery sold in Europe (importing batteries from China is not my tasse de thé...) they come in at around half price, less than 2/3 with the charger and bits and bobs. So even if the pack only does a year it is still equivalent in cost.

 

The posters all seem to have had puffing incidents and some have had fires but... if you are feeding tens of Amps to a 2 kW+ motor at speeds closer to the speed of sound than 25 km/h you are asking for issues IMHO.

 

The hills around here are not being kind to my Samsung 26F cells I doubt that I shall get more than 2 years from my bottle battery. The sagging is becoming annoying and I am only asking for 1.5C from it! I would love to have the latest generation cells in my bottle capable of 10C but at $320 + cost of having someone re-cell that is not going to happen soon.

 

One of the threads mentions parallel connection of like voltage Li-Ion and Lipo packs to get the best of both worlds, have any of you played with that?

ES does make for interesting reading.

HEADS UP!

The 16000mAh packs seem to be down in price, they are cheaper than both the 12000 and 10000 for me today.

 

129.79€ for a 16 Ah 37 V battery with 2 lipo alarms and 1 series wire!

HEADS UP!

The 16000mAh packs seem to be down in price, they are cheaper than both the 12000 and 10000 for me today.

 

129.79€ for a 16 Ah 37 V battery with 2 lipo alarms and 1 series wire!

Woah, that's a great price! I'm waiting it out until the summer then I plan to buy some 20000mAh packs. Haven't seen any discounts on them like this though.

Just noticed that at current prices, the 10000mAh packs match the 16000mAh on a Wh/£ basis. Not quite as convenient, but more flexible for filling small or awkward shaped spaces.

 

EDIT: Also, the 4S Multistar packs are even better value than the 6S packs.

 

You can fit 6 4S 16000mAh packs in an EM3EV triangle bag, giving you 32000mAh @ 12S, with a 'real world' draw of 80A at 2.5C. I can't think of a better way to do this for under £220.

 

I might have to re-think my plans for 20000mAh packs and jump on these now.

Edited March 3, 201610 yr by danielrlee

Prices are different from the UK warehouse to the EU warehouse in Germany. Guess which is the cheapest? Yep UK warehouse wins most times around.

 

I am trying to track down a decent AC powered charger I like these ones except for the price http://fr.tomtop.com/original-skyrc-d100-100w-lipo-life-liion-lihv-nimh-nicd-battery-2-ports-charger-discharger-rm3760eu.html?currency=EUR

or http://fr.tomtop.com/ultra-power-up120ac-duo-120w100w-liiolipolifenimhnicd-battery-multi-balance-chargerdischarger-rm3000eu.html

OK the prices have been updated on the Euro warehouse

 

83.29€ for a 10 Amp battery with all the kit just over 167€ for 20 Amps

 

Are they just getting rid of the returned packs with duff cells? Old stock with too much shelf life? A mix of the above?

 

I don't think I would complain too much about a 20 amp pack that only gets 100 full cycles at that price. That is 1.67€ per hundred kilometres...

I know this thread is supposed to be about Multistar packs, but a number of other packs are also on sale.

 

Most notable are the 6S 5000mAh 20C packs at £21.89 each:

http://hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__26675__Turnigy_5000mAh_6S_20C_Lipo_Pack_UK_Warehouse_.html

 

This has completely thrown my plans and I'm now wondering if I'd be better off building a nice stiff main pack out of these and then adding some Multistars as a range extender.

I purchased some Multistar packs from Hobbyking (UK warehouse) when they were on offer recently. The checking date on the boxes of each battery was well over a year ago so that suggests they may have been sat on a shelf for quite a long while. Arrived fine though bar 1 which was/is questionable (cells a little unbalanced).

OK so I guess I am about to become an e-bike nerd, I just ordered the pair of 10000 Multistar lipos - 6 + 4S, a couple of alarms and a tester. I'll get the rest of the kit next week when fresh cash arrives wanted the batteries now in case they don't stay in stock long at that price.

 

The building of "Number Two" begins. Next month I will get the bare GSM motor, I already have the controller and LCD.

Heck You could make up 10s (37v) 10ah battery for £58 + about £6 delivery. Tempting, shame I already have 2 sets which cost over double that, rigged up ready to start using when needed.

I am trying to track down a decent AC powered charger I like these ones

I tried one of the cheap B6AC chargers and a problem I found with it was because the power supply and charge unit were together in the same housing is got very hot so I switched to ones with seperate power supplies for the heat issues. Those ones you are looking at do look a bit better vented though.

I couldn't let this offer pass, so I've now got 7x (6 + 1 spare) 16000mAh 4S Multistar packs on their way.

 

This addition to my battery collection now gives me an 'extended range' battery of 2752Wh. Who can beat that? :-)

I couldn't let this offer pass, so I've now got 7x (6 + 1 spare) 16000mAh 4S Multistar packs on their way.

 

This addition to my battery collection now gives me an 'extended range' battery of 2752Wh. Who can beat that?

Kudos Rapide!!

I don't think it makes sense to use lipos at 10S. A normal Ebike battery will work out cheaper in the long run, and is a lot more convenient.

 

The best thing about lipos is that you can make a 12S battery, which will give 20% more power and torque to a 36v ebike or kit without detriment, though it can cause complications with some LCDs. Many modern controllers will switch automatically between 48v and 36v. They're perfect for 12S. Older ones or ones without LCDs are no problem. There's some with LCDs that can only be set to 36v, so they have problems with battery display.

I don't think it makes sense to use lipos at 10S. A normal Ebike battery will work out cheaper in the long run, and is a lot more convenient.

 

The best thing about lipos is that you can make a 12S battery, which will give 20% more power and torque to a 36v ebike or kit without detriment, though it can cause complications with some LCDs. Many modern controllers will switch automatically between 48v and 36v. They're perfect for 12S. Older ones or ones without LCDs are no problem. There's some with LCDs that can only be set to 36v, so they have problems with battery display.

d8veh, do you know what the max voltage an S12S can take? I was thinking of trying 15s with a Q128H motor.

I don't think it makes sense to use lipos at 10S. A normal Ebike battery will work out cheaper in the long run, and is a lot more convenient.

 

Maybe in the UK. I know th HobbyKing sales are stock with long shelf life but even if I only get 100 charges (charging to 4.15 V and discharging to 3.6 V) out of them it still only comes to 1.67€ per 100 km. The cheapest alternative is a second bottle battery at 360€. Convenient I hear you but I am a serious and meticulous person and my range extender lipoly is for going to the city one or two times a week so with some planning charging is not going to be a problem. With 10.4 Ah of Li-Ion and 10 Ah of lipoly I am looking forward to Spring coming back again!

 

The best thing about lipos is that you can make a 12S battery, which will give 20% more power and torque to a 36v ebike or kit without detriment, though it can cause complications with some LCDs. Many modern controllers will switch automatically between 48v and 36v. They're perfect for 12S. Older ones or ones without LCDs are no problem. There's some with LCDs that can only be set to 36v, so they have problems with battery display.

 

Here you have the knowledge I am currently lacking. For my GSM build I would quite like to have a 12S 16 Ah packs. The project is for a longer range trekking bike. It is also more convenient charging several batteries of the same size. I have the 20 Amp controller and LCD from a BMSbattery 36 V 09 bottle battery. Under the controller there is 36 V written in red marker pen. Inside there is a 50 V condensater. Will this handle 12S lipoly hot off the charger at 49.8 V?

 

TIA for any tips on this set up.

d8veh, do you know what the max voltage an S12S can take? I was thinking of trying 15s with a Q128H motor.

I ran one with 16S, which IIRC is slightly over what is safe, so you should be OK at 15S. Bear in mind that the S12S has had some changes over the years.

For my GSM build I would quite like to have a 12S 16 Ah packs. The project is for a longer range trekking bike. It is also more convenient charging several batteries of the same size. I have the 20 Amp controller and LCD from a BMSbattery 36 V 09 bottle battery. Under the controller there is 36 V written in red marker pen. Inside there is a 50 V condensater. Will this handle 12S lipoly hot off the charger at 49.8 V?

 

TIA for any tips on this set up.

 

You should look at the main capacitor/s that are directly over the two main battery wires (follow the tracks). 50v would be too low, but I'm pretty sure that the 09 bottle battery controller is switchable between 36v and 48v. I have one in front of me from a 48v battery. It has a 63v capacitor, which is what you need. It would be easy and cheap to change a 50v one to 63v or higher.

OK thanks d8veh that is what I was thinking about 50 V. I was already thinking of taking the cap off and putting another on on lying it down instead of having it standing vertically as it is now in order to make the casing lower profile. It is just that main cap that needs changing to 63 V everything else is identical between the two controllers?

I just bought three more 10AH 4S, to make into a 12S 10AH pack. I already have two of these packs, and I'm very happy with them. Cost, £21.89 per battery, down from £42.62. Very good value!

 

I'm using 2-4S chargers. They cost £6.61; I run a bunch of them off an old PC power supply. It means I can charge my 4S batteries via the balance port, no need to plug in the main power lead (but I do remove the harness that puts the three 4Ses in series, because otherwise I think I'd see a flash, a bang and lots of smoke). They only run 30W, but because I'm using three of them to charge my three 4Ses, that's really 90W

My batteries arrived. No problems, well balanced according to the tester I ordered at the same time. Still waiting on the money to order the rest of the bits so I can get out and try them.

 

If this works out for me then I am on the hunt for a 48V controller:

 

- sine wave

- 20 Amp

- with cable out for lights (so that I can switch them on and off from the LCD)

- available without huge shipping charges

 

The idea is a 20 Ah 12S battery made up of 4x10 Ah 6S packs 2S2P. If my first experience with lipo is positive I will use this as my main battery.

It is just that main cap that needs changing to 63 V everything else is identical between the two controllers?

. The other things might not be exactly the same, but should be OK. One thing to bear in mind is that if you use a 36v motor at 48v, its efficiency curve gets proportionally up the speed range, so It will be less efficient at low speed, and it'll draw maximum current for more time (if you let it), which can cause over-heating of the controller. That;s not a problem if you use anything lower than level 5 (or 3 on a three level controller).

If I may, I would like to add some of my experiences with Lipo.;

SO6S/LCD-3 sine wave controller/display on 12S-

I tried several times, but never could get the system glitch free. I never did figure things out and just went back to a square wave controller. My "gut" feeling was, the sine wave did not like the odd Voltage values of the Lipo.

10S-

I was vacationing at the beach and riding on the broadwalk, so I wanted to lower the 3-speed range of my system to make it more versatile at low speeds. I ended up going to 9S, to better match the 31V LVC of my 36V controller. That's a little low, as cell Voltage @ end of discharge was ion the 3.20V to 3.30V range. Top speed with a mid-speed motor was around 15 to 16 mph.

Charging-

It really is best to avoid "breaking" the pack to charge. The chances of making a mistake are too high. At one time, there were three 12S-14S balance chargers available in the States, but now we are down to one, the Thunder 1430C, but with a Power supply, it's over $200US. I am currently bulk charging using a Industrial LED lighting PS, the Mean Well HLG-320H-50A or HLG-320H-54A;

 

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/260/HLG-320H-spec-226092.pdf

 

Here is a short review;

"It is, in effect, a poor man's Satiator(Grin Cycle) in the way it works and what it can do.

The first thing that is noticed is it's weight, It no lite weight, due, no doubt, to to it's robust construction and the fact that is fully potted. I have not used it as an on board charger yet, but would have no qualms doing so. It is very slim and I'll take on some extra weight if it means the charger is vibration and weather proof(Designed for outdoor installations).

Here are some of it's features;

Auto adj. AC input, 115V or 220V.

95% effcicency

Short circuit/over-current/over-Voltage/over-temp. protection.

Voltage adjustable(42-53V for HLG-320H-48A, 48-59V for HLG-320H-54A)via internal potentiometer reached from the outside though a port(see pic).

Constant Current level(0-6.75A) adjustable via internal potentiometer.

 

How it works;

First off, unlike some balance chargers, it makes no difference on the order of how it is connected.

I plug in the AC cord first and the mini Voltmeter I added reads the final out-put Voltage(For example, I set it to 48V for an end-of-charge storage Voltage of 4.00V/cell).

Then I plug it into the pack(I never get a spark doing this) and the mini meter reads the pack's state of charge Voltage.

It starts charging immediately and silently and it is fast.

Unlike balance chargers, it does not interupt the charging, to cycle though, to read cell Voltages.

Just a constant 320 Watts(the Satiator does 380W).

As it approachs the end-of-charge value, the Constant Current mode attenuates to current to the shut-down point, at which the current is just a trickle and a soft internal switching relay can be heard.

It is safe to leave it this way, but since we are talking Lipo, the charging process should not be left unattended anyhow. A timer on the AC input could be installed to turn it off completly(reports from other users, report that is only a very small drain when the pack is left connected w/ no AC input).

I may add something to read Volts and current, but so far, I just leave the current adj. to max.

Words cannot describe how nice this unit is to use. It makes my old Thunder 1220 seem like a PInto compared to a Caddy.

Since it is designed for industrial use, it is much better quality that any of the chargers designed for RC use.

It might seem expensive at $135, but w/ a 5 year warrenty, I would say it's a bargin and one of the best Ebike purchases I have made."

 

I use Battery Medics to check/balance. The thing about Battery Medics is, there are so many clones of them, care must be taken when ordering them as some don't work well. The ones from Hobby Kings are, strangely, among the worst. The Ebay ones are OK, but the genuine Battery Medics, which I get from hobby suppliers are the best.

Lipo Quality- I have used both Zippy and Turnigy Lipo and am of the opinion the Turnigy lasts longer.

Even with all the new versions of Lipo that have hit the market recently, I still think the Turnigy 20C 6S, 5000 mAh are the best value.

Lipo and controller LVC-

Most 48V controllers will have a LVC of 42V. This matchs 12S perfectly, with an end of discharge cell Voltage of 3.65V, just at the point where the cell Voltages are starting to stray.

Edited March 9, 201610 yr by motomech

I've just purchased the multi stars when they first went on sale @£35 for the 6s 10k.

 

they replaced my Turnigy 5k 6s I was bulk charging (12s 50v shut off charger 4.17 per cell) at work to get me back home, been doing this for 3 yrs without a glitch and are still fine and ballanced even now, 3 yrs great batteries....first impressions of the multistars are not great (voltage sag) but fine for my peddling commute. But can't see then lasting as good as my Turnigy's. Just don't seam to have the punch?...

 

I will monitor them and see how I go and will report back after a few months. Can't really complain tho for £70 (i live 10 minutes away from HK Elmset heaven for collection) a 50v 10ah battery..

 

Also another bonus is I no longer have to charge at work so my trusty bulk charger can stay at home for an easier life......

Edited March 9, 201610 yr by mxer