Hi Folks... I'm totally new to the world of e-bikes and in dire need of some sound advice please. I'm 47 and 5'7" and my better half is 4'11", we're moving to N.Wales and would love to have a pair of e-bikes that will help us get up some of the mountainous terrain for some much needed excercise and sight-seeing. The GTECH bike is what sparked my interest in e-bikes originally, but I soon realised it was pretty far removed from the spec that we need. Options for my wife seem quote limited due to her hobbit-like proportions, and I'm confused as to whether 250w motors with around 400-500Kwh batteries are strong enough to go several miles up some fairly serious inclines. Also I'm unsure if crank drive as opposed to hub makes a 250w more capable of achieving this, or if a 500w would be needed in any case. There don't seem to be many 500w options except for the Volt Bigfoot, which looks like it would be great for off-road mountains and sand dunes etc. Shimano steps would be ideal for the missus as she's not particularly keen on using manual multi-gear setups, but it's not essential. All advice and any suggestions would be very much appreciated, as after researching several manufacturers offerings I feel quite lost in the wilderness of available e-bike options and specifications.

Thanks!

one solution for your wife is a folding bike.

Smaller wheels give better torque with the same motor.

One important consideration is weight. How heavy are you both?

A lot of inexperienced riders worry about the gears on bicycles because it looks complicated, but it's nothing to worry about. It only takes a couple of outings for them to become as natural as turning the pedals. Bikes with motors in the wheel are less dependent on being in the right gear because they drive the wheel directly, so the motor can bail you out while you sort out which gear you should be in, which can be very useful at times. At only 4ft 11, I can imagine that any bike with a hub-motor would have enough power for your wife.

For you, we need to know your weight to make a suitable recommendation.

Thanks... we're both around 147lbs

Hi Timbo,

I live in west Wales, not Snowdonia but still lots of hills. My wife has a Woosh big Bear. The frame would be too big for your wife, but it's 8Fun front hub motor pulls like a tractor even though 'only' 250watts. There are other machines in the Woosh range that would suite your wife.

For myself, I have a converted Carrera with an Ezee kit. Again this is a big bodied bpm type geared front hub. Gets me up the steepest I can find. In fact I have been known to start laughing during a climb, 'cos it's just such a hoot.

Hub motors (front or rear) are not dependant on which gear you are in. I find that makes simpler cycling, just changing gear to suite me.

 

Not sure how far away you are, but there are these guys near Abereron:

http://www.cyclemart.co.uk/electric-mountain-bikes/4579330921

Have a range of mountain and hybrid bikes with some demo's.

You need to try a few to get the feel of it. Alternatively, if you have a bike you like, conversion is an option, if you are even mildly handy with a spanner.

A lot depends on why you want to cycle. If you want excercise then a bike with a torque sensor is best, if you want to go through the motions then a bike with a cadence sensor will do it for you. Are you looking for a bike for off road use or will it all be on road?

We'd prefer out of the box bikes, rather than converting.

Torque-sensor is probably best, since we do want the excercise, but it would be nice to have a throttle on occasion when too tired to get up the hill! Our longest journeys will be off-road, with a short daily on-road run of about 5 miles.

For myself, a 500w motor would be nice for the occasional blast along a deserted beach.

I'm confused as to whether 250w motors with around 400-500Kwh batteries are strong enough to go several miles up some fairly serious inclines.

 

If distance and steepness of climb are of key importance, then personal fitness is always going to play a major roll in a bikes hill climbing ability, as is gearing.

 

For the simple reason of ownership and keeping it short, taking the Bosch motor system for my example, both the Performance Line and CX motor will climb, with the main weak link being the rider,

 

Just a few examples for you to glance at.

 

 

Climb only recorded, and this climb required a change of battery for the last mile or so. https://www.strava.com/activities/658404106

 

Climb and descent recorded. https://www.strava.com/activities/657632662

 

Climb only recorded. https://www.strava.com/activities/656138180

 

Doarama example. http://doarama.com/view/942817

 

 

 

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Edited October 8, 20169 yr by EddiePJ

For myself, a 500w motor would be nice for the occasional blast along a deserted beach.

Geat idea, but fatal for an electric bike. You shouldn't take one anywhere near the beach. This is what happened to the last guy that tried that:

 

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/batteries/20141009_123957_zpssuctnrd9.jpg

I'd say go and try lots and lots out first and see what you find the best

Try and have a budget in mind and try and stick to it, you can spend a few £ to lots of £££££££££££ on a bike, so it's best to try and try again.

This is a powerful small bike https://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/HAIBIKE-WINORA-RADIUS-ELECTRIC-CITY-BIKE

You mention 500 watt motor. My understanding is that this would require to be registered taxed and motd in order to be used legally on road in UK or you risk your driving licence. UK motor max for pedelec is 250 watt. I'm a newbie so may be talking through a large orifice with a sphincter in my nether regions but suggest you check. Apologies in advance if im wrongo_O

a Bosch or Yamaha motor can pull 700w under 15 mph but if you dongle it then that removes the speed limit

 

why i can roll round going 30mph.

...Apologies in advance if im wrongo_O

 

You're not wrong - the Pedelecs guide to UK law might be useful: http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/electric-bike-guides/uk-electric-bike-law/

Geat idea, but fatal for an electric bike. You shouldn't take one anywhere near the beach. This is what happened to the last guy that tried that:

 

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/batteries/20141009_123957_zpssuctnrd9.jpg

And the battery did not farewell either!

Geat idea, but fatal for an electric bike. You shouldn't take one anywhere near the beach. This is what happened to the last guy that tried that:

 

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/batteries/20141009_123957_zpssuctnrd9.jpg

How did this happen? Battery get wet inside? I thought those things were sealed... or did sand somehow cause this but, if you shouldn't run an ebike on the beach, why do they make fatbikes and advertise them specifically for use on sand dunes, snow and mud?

You mention 500 watt motor. My understanding is that this would require to be registered taxed and motd in order to be used legally on road in UK or you risk your driving licence. UK motor max for pedelec is 250 watt. I'm a newbie so may be talking through a large orifice with a sphincter in my nether regions but suggest you check. Apologies in advance if im wrongo_O

Thanks but it's fine, I'm aware that 250w is the max allowed legally on the road, the 500 would only be used in off-road, no people places.

I guess what I am asking here is are 250w bikes capable of pulling up a steep hill without pedalling if it becomes necessary (I have a knee that sometimes fails without warning). Also all the 'reputable' manufacturers, selling what I presume are better quality bikes over £2K, seem to have crank motors. Would the same size motor apply more torque at the wheel than a hub type due to the gearing advantage? Basically, is it worth spending the extra £500 for a Bosch/Yamaha crank motor setup over the cheaper hub types? Regarding style and quality, the Haibike range looks to be way ahead of the rest.

Just my own experiences here. Off road, up a hill, you still have to put some considerable effort in. Sometimes more effort than you may be used to. Especially, if it's a 'mountain'. It's no breeze climbing steeper hills. The bike's motor will only assist your own efforts.

 

 

This video shows a front hub 250w and a 1kw rear hub going up a hill. Neither throttle was used.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXNsV81UJww

 

This video, taken this morning, shows a 1kw rear hub bike going up a grassy knoll, on throttle only, with relative ease. It's the biggest hill that I have close by. It'll never be a mountain though.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkVe-3OIW2M

Edited October 11, 20169 yr by LeighPing

How did this happen? Battery get wet inside? I thought those things were sealed... or did sand somehow cause this but, if you shouldn't run an ebike on the beach, why do they make fatbikes and advertise them specifically for use on sand dunes, snow and mud?

 

Batteries aren't 100% sealed the outer casing is there to hold all the interanls in place and to protect from knock damage. Saline water eats and damages cells and eventually kills them, not to be used near the surf or on wet sand. Lipo's at end of life then dunked in saline solution is a way of making them totally safe for disposal, lion will be no different.

Snow and mud are safe at the most they contain moisture but not enough to cause issues whilst sand dunes are exactly that dry and inland not on the surf.

Full sus Haibikes are ok If you fit cable ties to all the moving sus parts othe rwise they fall to bits. Just ask SW 5k bike only works with 50p cable ties added. Pretty designed stylish bkes don't always mean their the best just the most expensive or otherwise a marketing ploy to grab as much money as they can.

You need to ride the differing bike drives out there with a dodgy knee go for cadence/pas sensor hub bike with full throttle but don't expect to be racing up hills at full speed, also if planning on using throttle a lot get a big battery 15ah or more. Throttle use full power so uses capacity up quicker.

Pretty designed stylish bkes don't always mean their the best just the most expensive or otherwise a marketing ploy to grab as much money as they can.

 

So true. Click here to see the votes.

Hi thanks to dv8vh for that informative and worrying image. Obviously the specs for the engineering design of these battery packs does not include waterproofing. If tins of sardines can hold the contents in brine for decades, it is not a technical problem just an engineering decision. I f there is a profit to be made, someone will sell robust housings for off road use.

I'm more confused now than before I posted! I thought that spending over £2k would get me a bike that goes up hills with relative ease (in pedal assist mode) and also one that won't fall apart! £2k is a lot of money for a bike, can anyone suggest a manufacturer or two who makes bikes that don't fall apart and don't look like something from the 60's? £2,300 is my max budget. I don't really need full suspension as I won't be riding on what you might call extreme terrain, or doing fast down-hill runs etc, just leisure use with hills and sometimes a little rougher than your average cycle path.

I'm more confused now than before I posted! I thought that spending over £2k would get me a bike that goes up hills with relative ease (in pedal assist mode) and also one that won't fall apart! £2k is a lot of money for a bike, can anyone suggest a manufacturer or two who makes bikes that don't fall apart and don't look like something from the 60's? £2,300 is my max budget. I don't really need full suspension as I won't be riding on what you might call extreme terrain, or doing fast down-hill runs etc, just leisure use with hills and sometimes a little rougher than your average cycle path.

 

I have no first hand experience of this bike and I'm not a trader. However, if it were me, well within your budget, I'd be checking out this bike, because it appeals to me and I ride them like I've stole them.

 

Good luck in making your final decision.

 

Click to view.

The above Bosch bike cannot give power without pedalling. It's not suitable if you have any health problems that prevent you from pedalling.

 

To go up steep hills, you need torque, not power. A 250w motor is more than adequate to make enough torque as long as you don't mind low speed. The average 250w hub-motor in a 26" or bigger wheel becomes very inefficient below about 7 mph, so are not much good for steep hills, but put the same motor in a 16" or 20" wheel and it won't have any problem. It's simple gearing. You get 60% more torque in a 16" wheel compared to the same motor in a 26" one.

 

Often the motors for small wheels have different windings inside, so they soin faster. They only lose a bit of torque for that, so you get good torque at low speed and they can still run up to 15 mph when you want.

 

You can get crank-drive motors with throttles, so you get the best of everything. They can use the bikes gears to get the torque for steep hills and, in a high gear, get speed as well.

 

The 500w geared hub motors (not the big cheap direct drive ones) can produce massive torque for getting up very steep hills. Most of the 1000w hub motors are designed for speed rather than torque, so hill climbing is not as good as it could be, and much worse than a 500w geared hub-motor.

 

Waterproofing is always a bit of a problem. If you have a removable battery, it's difficult to stop water from reaching the terminals. It's not a problem with rainwater because it's hardly conductive, so doesn't cause any problem while you wait for it to dry, but salt water is very conductive. It would make your battery burn.

 

Fun as it might seem, it's not a good idea to take any bike on wet sand by the sea. You can never clean out all the salt water. It sits in crevices where it does rapid corrosion. Even after it's dry, the remaining salt crystals are hygroscopic, so, as soon as there's any humidity, they reabsorb water and start their rapid corrosion again, which causes all sorts of damage. Even on the most expensive bikes, the components are not designed to have the necessary corrosion resistance for salt water, like they would be on a motorbike or car.