It must be me getting old and cynical,it's good you see the best in everybody....I only say that would you be allowed to operate your business for 17 years without displaying accounts??

KudosDave

I spent the last hour reading this:

http://bike-eu.com.s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/app/uploads/2016/09/EU-Council-regulation-on-anti-dumping-2013.pdf

that document explained in details how the Commission arrived at various ADD rates for Chinese bikes.

They may renew them next year or revise them.

there are fundamental differences between $70 bicycles and $700 e-bikes. If you compare factory prices between Taiwanese e-bikes and Chinese e-bikes, they are practically the same. Taiwan is accepted as a market economy, so no ADD.

Woosh....looks like the EBMA are attacking us with further requests to the commission. It is interesting that one of the biggest importer from China into the EU (incl UK) is Italy,there must be a few Italian importers downing the Prosecco.

 

two more measures

The two measures that EBMA wants, are the immediate registration of Chinese e-bike imports and an investigation on huge subsidies granted by the Chinese government to e-bike manufacturers.

 

E-bike import registration

As for the immediate registration of Chinese e-bike imports Moreno Fioravanti, EBMA’s Secretary General, says “We have asked the European Commission for this as it will allow the EU anti-dumping duties to be imposed retroactively.”

 

It means that at every European port the e-bike import from China will be scrutinized for its origin per manufacturer in China as well as for the importing company in the EU. This brings the possibility to charge the anti-dumping duty or the provisional duty once imposed afterwards on the importing company.

 

Anti-subsidy complaint

The other extra measure EBMA is also aiming for is to have the European Commission to instigate an anti-subsidy investigation on e-bike manufacturers in China. Moreno Fioravanti says on this “Chinese e-bike exporters benefit from massive subsidies from government bodies at every level in China. Those subsidies have encouraged enormous e-bike manufacturing overcapacities, which are then dumped in the EU.”

 

WTO rules

The EBMA Secretary General also claims “EBMA and the EU manufacturers of bicycles, e-bikes, and components are firm believers in free trade, but trade must also be fair.Injuring domestic producers through imports which are dumped and heavily government-subsidized is against the World Trade Organization (WTO) rules. We have asked the Commission to order the registration of Chinese e-bikes as soon as possible so that the blatant disregard of trade rules by Chinese e-bike manufacturers can be stopped quickly. We are confident that the Commission will make a thorough analysis and confirm the massive scale of dumping from China which is injuring EU producers and destroying sustainable manufacturing jobs, Innovation, growth and investment in Europe.”

 

Looks like even under WTO,post Brexit,the EBMA will be gunning for us.

KudosDave

Moreno Fioravanti sounds like a no win no fee injury lawyer.

I'll wait for the Commission's reply before making any plan.

If the Commsion requires registration, then we'll look into assembling the bikes in the UK.

Moreno Fioravanti sounds like a no win no fee injury lawyer.

I'll wait for the Commission's reply before making any plan.

If the Commsion requires registration, then we'll look into assembling the bikes in the UK.

Yeah, it's not difficult to guess what his nickname was in school!

Don't suppose the EU want to look into why Brit made bikes double in price once a vulture fund buys them up, e.g. Brompton & GoCycle. Or maybe I'm unfair & thats just NeoC*apitalism.

Moreno Fioravanti sounds like a no win no fee injury lawyer.

I'll wait for the Commission's reply before making any plan.

If the Commsion requires registration, then we'll look into assembling the bikes in the UK.

 

Dont forget you will need to get EN15194 certification done in the UK....thats very cheap in China but last time I checked it was both difficult and very expensive to test in the UK.

There is clearly a trade war on all bikes between the EU-UK-China,it would be sensible to await the outcome.

KudosDave

There is clearly a trade war on all bikes between the EU-UK-China,it would be sensible to await the outcome.

We'll get our bikes from Taiwan if it comes to that.

Taiwan seems to be the best bet so far, I am going over next week to see our mountain bike builders, it would seem sensible to tack on our City and Trekking bikes.

Taiwan seems to be the best bet so far, I am going over next week to see our mountain bike builders, it would seem sensible to tack on our City and Trekking bikes.

 

David....if you go to Taichung,recommend the amazing ice cream parlour in the centre of the city,it used to be an eye hospital...forget your diet,hehe.

KudosDave

Sounds good! I’ll give it a go. Maybe ice cream is the silver lining to this particular cloud!

Sounds good! I’ll give it a go. Maybe ice cream is the silver lining to this particular cloud!

 

It's called 'eyes-scream',hehe!!!!

The rest of the building is worth a look round,they have done an amazing refurb on an almost derelict building. Taichung is such a progressive city,everyone seems to have an amazing work ethic,I was very impressed by the positive attitude of everyone who works there,very high quality of product coming out of Taichung,bit more expensive than mainland China.

KudosDave

Deadlines on dumping investigation:

 

Information link

.

deadline for registering your participation is this Friday, 4th November.

Email trade-AD643-ebikes-injury@ec.europa.eu for a registration form.

Clarification on the sources of the data used for the dumping allegations can be read on this link.

.

ha ha! Bafang has them scared and running to mommy:

 

http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations/nieuws/2017/11/ebmas-dumping-complaint-document-allegations-against-bafang-10131961

Double standards?

 

So... Bosch through the EBMA, make a case for anti dumping against Chinese motor manufacturers Bafang because of alleged Chinese government subsidies, whilst taking €200M from European/German taxpayers to open a chip plant in Dresden?

 

http://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/it/bosch-baut-chipfabrik-milliarden-investition-in-dresden-a-1152881-2.html

 

"Our decision for Dresden is also a sign for Germany that it remains an attractive location for high-tech and innovation," says Hoheisel.

 

Incidentally, taxpayers' money will also flow abundantly, via a special pot for projects of strategic importance.

 

According to information from Monday, it should go up to 200 million euros - the European Commission is yet to approve. So Dresden for state financial injections?

 

Hoheisel says only: "The support of the Federal Ministry of Economics also helped us to make the decision so."

Double standards?

 

So... Bosch through the EBMA, make a case for anti dumping against Chinese motor manufacturers Bafang because of alleged Chinese government subsidies, whilst taking €200M from European/German taxpayers to open a chip plant in Dresden?

 

http://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/it/bosch-baut-chipfabrik-milliarden-investition-in-dresden-a-1152881-2.html

 

"Our decision for Dresden is also a sign for Germany that it remains an attractive location for high-tech and innovation," says Hoheisel.

 

Incidentally, taxpayers' money will also flow abundantly, via a special pot for projects of strategic importance.

 

According to information from Monday, it should go up to 200 million euros - the European Commission is yet to approve. So Dresden for state financial injections?

 

Hoheisel says only: "The support of the Federal Ministry of Economics also helped us to make the decision so."

 

Its not Bosch... its the big bike brands. Cube, Haibike, Giant etc etc.

I think Bafang would be happy to sell its new in frame motors to those brands...

Its not Bosch... its the big bike brands. Cube, Haibike, Giant etc etc.

 

I don't understand why Bafang's new mid-drives are being posited as a game changer. Couldn't Chinese manufacturers already put Bosch motors in their bikes if they wanted? Do Chinese bikes with non-chinese motors exist?

I don't understand why Bafang's new mid-drives are being posited as a game changer. Couldn't Chinese manufacturers already put Bosch motors in their bikes if they wanted? Do Chinese bikes with non-chinese motors exist?

 

The problem is bicycles are subject to this duty, and eBikes are classed as bicycles under every EU Law, so they should be subject to the same duty shouldn't they?.

 

So yes, the solution is remove anti dumping duty on normal bikes, or put it on eBikes. It has to be a level playing field which ever way you level it.

 

But yes, Bafang could easily ship their motors as a components into the EU and have the bikes assembled over here to bypass the duty.

Its not Bosch... its the big bike brands. Cube, Haibike, Giant etc etc.

 

I have heard differently Col, Bafang are convinced Bosch are a part of the problem Bafang are leading the defence of what is obviously an unjust and spurious claim.

 

Suzhou, PRC, November 13, 2017 – Bafang, one of Asia’s leading manufacturers of emobility components and complete e-drive systems strongly opposes the allegations made by the European Bicycle Manufacturers Association (EBMA) in their submitted 42-page document, called ‘Electric bicycles from China, Complaint under Article 5 of Regulation 2016/1036- Open Version’* After receiving the EU documents on China's alleged electric bicycle ‘dumping’ indictment, Bafang found several false and non-proven allegations made by the European Bicycle Manufacturers Association (EBMA). Besides many other untrue allegations on the general case, below is the list of untrue allegations without any given evidence about Bafang receiving heavy government subsidies. << 19) As bicycles and e-bikes are a clear focus area in China's 12th and even more in China's 13th 5-Year Plan for Bicycles, the Chinese bicycle producers have thereby been able to obtain heavy State-subsidies from authorities at provincial, regional and local levels. These subsidies have enabled the Chinese e-bike producers and their suppliers, most importantly Bafang, the main Chinese producer of e-bike engines, to catch up quickly with the EU industry in terms of knowhow. 57) Concerning the parts specific to e-bikes, i.e. the engine, computer/control unit and battery, China's largest producers of these components, e.g. Bafang and BAK, have essentially been able to catch up with Bosch's inventive system design thanks to substantial government subsidies. 105) The Government of China started to heavily subsidise e-bike and component producers such as Bafang to catch up with the EU technology. 107) During the following years, heavy State subsidisation allowed Bafang and other Chinese engine makers to catch up step-by-step with EU technology

 

Bafang entered the electric bicycle industry in 1999 –long before the well-known European e-bike component makers entered the market- and launched its own brand in 2003. In nearly 15 years history, Bafang experienced many changes and challenges in the development of electric bicycles in China and Europe. In these years, Bafang has become an important global eBike industry component supplier. The indictment from the European Bicycle Manufactures Association (EBMA) has several accusations without any proof that Bafang received heavy government subsidies and with that, eBikes were allegedly ‘dumped’ into the European market. Besides many other wrong and constructed arguments in the paper, it proves that EBMA has an incomplete, distorted and biased understanding on the history of the development of electric power-assisted bicycle and the Chinese eBike industry. China's large-scale development of electric power-assisted bicycles began in 1995, and now annual sales, both domestically and for export, have stabilized at a scale of 22 million vehicles. The initial start was about electric mopeds. The technical solutions are similar to the current European style electric pedelecs or eBikes. Over these years the Chinese ebike industry (as in bicycle and component manufacturers) has developed into a traditional industry with mature basic technologies. Major changes are the implementation of contemporary, internationally acclaimed industrial design and the integration of Internet and smartphone technologies. These developments are entirely the result of market competition, supply and demand.

I am pretty certain the commission will find for the big brands whatever evidence is given. We are certainly making plans.

 

I heard today "It’s a bit like a village cricket match with the umpires provided by the home side!" Very astute!

I am pretty certain the commission will find for the big brands whatever evidence is given. We are certainly making plans.

 

I heard today "It’s a bit like a village cricket match with the umpires provided by the home side!" Very astute!

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20171110IPR87817/parliament-passes-new-anti-dumping-rules-to-protect-eu-jobs-and-industry

Do Chinese bikes with non-chinese motors exist?

 

Yes, but Japanese rather than German motors,

 

Wisper bikes have mostly been made in China and some models have had Japanese Dapu hub motors fitted.

 

And Giant e-bikes made in that other China, Taiwan, have used both Panasonic crank drive units and Sanyo hub motors, both Japanese.

 

And of course some German e-bikes have used motors from Japan, Switzerland and I believe Austria.

.

I have heard differently Col, Bafang are convinced Bosch are a part of the problem Bafang are leading the defence of what is obviously an unjust and spurious claim.

 

 

I'm not sure Bosch were even at the meeting of the EMBA, bearing in mind they aren't a bike brand. Its also bigger than just Bosch, its multiple motors and bigger than that its the bike brands.

 

I've been saying for years, that eBike industry in the UK is going to get shaken up as soon as the big players in the Industry realise there is a market.

 

Its starting to happen and they will push out the small players just like they have done in normal bikes over the past 10 year.

 

If this current thing doesn't work, they'll do something else.

Do Chinese bikes with non-chinese motors exist?

 

Sorry I missed this part of the question.

I don't know the details of the supply chains of a lot of other brands.

But at a guess.

 

The Halfords brand Carrera is I'm sure made by Merida, who have 5 factories, 3 of which are in China. Carrera have a Bosch equipped bike now.

 

So there is a good chance this is a Chinese made bike, with a EU made motor.

 

However there is a chance Halfords are getting these bikes made at the Merida factory in Germany.

 

I'm sure there will be others.

 

We work with a EU Manufacturer called Ursus they make lots of things and ship a lot to the far east. However they are finding that more and more bike brands are moving to EU suppliers because the price isn't that much more, and the lead times and order quantities are so much lower.